Armstong dopes AGAIN



scott0425

New Member
May 12, 2005
12
0
0
whiteboytrash said:
Ouch alright ! What is going on here ! Armstrong is running out of friends and Verbruggen could be two timing him ! LA better get his $500,000 back !

...you get the feeling that there is still another big twist to come...
Just a question from a novice (who has read just about the entire thread)... the whole doping thing....from reading this, it seems many think LA is guilty, but the rest of the top world class riders, i.e. Ulrich, Basso...etc..., are choir boys and shudder at the thought of EPO......am I right? because that is how it sounds to an outsider reading this. Now from what I can figure out by looking at the number of riders who have been suspended in the past few years and the number of seemingly superfit and healthy riders who suddenly drop dead (and I'm not talking the older guys, but guys in their early 20's) EPO is common, if not rampant....so why the disgust and surprise if LA really did use it? I mean, c'mon, the guy is making millions of dollars, is he supposed to, at the height of his career, say, "oh, by the way, I used EPO"????
I wouldn't. I'd say "show me the money, hey Jan, pass the EPO!"........
just my 2cents
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Good point. I think the difference between LA and the others is that LA pulls $20million from the sport. He pulls this amount of money because he proclaims his is dope free, a patron of the peleton and puts forward the image of cancer survivor, clean rider now pay me some big bucks for this story. Damien Ressiot the writer of the L’Equipe all so stated that the reason that he concentrated on Armstrong in the story was for this very reason. Armstrong is not like any other rider. Armstrong wins Tour de France every year but also claims that he is clean and tells the world, write letters to those who can’t believe in his story. So maybe Basso, Ullrich and others are using EPO, who knows, but at least they don’t go running around telling everyone how clean they are and how they have a more amazing story than anyone else. I.e. I train harder, I do reconnaissance and no one else does, I have the best team, etc etc etc. The reason he does all this is for the $20million the others just ride there bikes.


scott0425 said:
Just a question from a novice (who has read just about the entire thread)... the whole doping thing....from reading this, it seems many think LA is guilty, but the rest of the top world class riders, i.e. Ulrich, Basso...etc..., are choir boys and shudder at the thought of EPO......am I right? because that is how it sounds to an outsider reading this. Now from what I can figure out by looking at the number of riders who have been suspended in the past few years and the number of seemingly superfit and healthy riders who suddenly drop dead (and I'm not talking the older guys, but guys in their early 20's) EPO is common, if not rampant....so why the disgust and surprise if LA really did use it? I mean, c'mon, the guy is making millions of dollars, is he supposed to, at the height of his career, say, "oh, by the way, I used EPO"????
I wouldn't. I'd say "show me the money, hey Jan, pass the EPO!"........
just my 2cents
 

patch70

New Member
Jun 19, 2003
1,682
0
0
52
scott0425 said:
Just a question from a novice (who has read just about the entire thread)... the whole doping thing....from reading this, it seems many think LA is guilty, but the rest of the top world class riders, i.e. Ulrich, Basso...etc..., are choir boys and shudder at the thought of EPO.....
Nobody thinks it it only Lance! It is just that he puts out lots of very public statements (eg 2 books & countless interviews) about how he's done it clean. The rest just shut up about it...
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
16,130
220
63
Hmmmmmm.

It's now a dogfight between WADA and the UCI.
Let's look at the chronology.

L'Equipe re-printed the 6 results sent by Chatanay Malabry to the UCI.
It was the UCI copy results which were re-printed in L'Equipe.

The UCI then announced that they were going to investigate the leak - denying that they leaked the 6 sample results - and that Armstrong was not proven to have doped.

Then Armstrong chimed in saying that he appreciated the UCI statement.
(but did not say that he intended to challenge C-M or the results)

Then the UCI started criticsing WADA for testing etc,

NOW IT TRANSPIRES THAT IT WAS POSSIBLY THE UCI PRESIDENT HIMSELF WHO SENT THE RESULTS SHEETS TO L'EQUIPE.
The UCI President himself.

Seems that Verbruggen put Armstrong's head in the noose !
Can't wait to hear the reaction from Texas - his statement of gratitude to the UCI will no doubt morph.
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Good mail LM... maybe the UCI was trying to hang Armstrong indirectly ? I bet LA has 500,000 reasons to change his statement about the UCI now ! I wonder how or even if he will respond.... Looks like LA is now out in the cold.... No scientist will stand by him, no other still competing cyclists have stood by him, WADA have not backed him, the UCI have stabbed him in the back and now he has no friends. LA welcome to the world you created for everyone else.

I should think one K.Livingston will be having a drink on you tonight !


limerickman said:
Hmmmmmm.

It's now a dogfight between WADA and the UCI.
Let's look at the chronology.

L'Equipe re-printed the 6 results sent by Chatanay Malabry to the UCI.
It was the UCI copy results which were re-printed in L'Equipe.

The UCI then announced that they were going to investigate the leak - denying that they leaked the 6 sample results - and that Armstrong was not proven to have doped.

Then Armstrong chimed in saying that he appreciated the UCI statement.
(but did not say that he intended to challenge C-M or the results)

Then the UCI started criticsing WADA for testing etc,

NOW IT TRANSPIRES THAT IT WAS POSSIBLY THE UCI PRESIDENT HIMSELF WHO SENT THE RESULTS SHEETS TO L'EQUIPE.
The UCI President himself.

Seems that Verbruggen put Armstrong's head in the noose !
Can't wait to hear the reaction from Texas - his statement of gratitude to the UCI will no doubt morph.
 

thebluetrain

New Member
Jul 31, 2004
1,074
0
0
52
whiteboytrash said:
Good mail LM... maybe the UCI was trying to hang Armstrong indirectly ? I bet LA has 500,000 reasons to change his statement about the UCI now ! I wonder how or even if he will respond.... Looks like LA is now out in the cold.... No scientist will stand by him, no other still competing cyclists have stood by him, WADA have not backed him, the UCI have stabbed him in the back and now he has no friends. LA welcome to the world you created for everyone else.

I should think one K.Livingston will be having a drink on you tonight !
"No other still competing cyclists have stood by him"???? Didnt I just start a thread the other day about Roger Hammond? LA didnt create "this world". L'Equipe and the media created it. How did this mess turn into something LA created? He was on his way out the door into retirement. Easy on the caffeine WBT.
 

tinks

New Member
Jul 12, 2005
91
0
0
Funnily enough, at the end of the day whether or not Armstrong doped could prove to be completely irrelevant. It might be evidence of corruption and conspiracy that brings him down.
 

bobke

New Member
Oct 3, 2004
2,134
2
0
Ullefan said:
Bang, Bang....Verbruggen has just been shot down in snow. Ouch!
The heads of two major organizations pointing fingers and casting blame.
**** Pound vs Verbruggen...or
The Govermor of Louisiana vs the former head of FEMA?

When the sh#t hits the fans...

oh well

too bad the discussion here has degenerated into ungrammatical nonsensical muck
 

thebluetrain

New Member
Jul 31, 2004
1,074
0
0
52
hombredesubaru said:
The heads of two major organizations pointing fingers and casting blame.
**** Pound vs Verbruggen...or
The Govermor of Louisiana vs the former head of FEMA?

When the sh#t hits the fans...

oh well

too bad the discussion here has degenerated into ungrammatical nonsensical muck
I agree, What a joke.
 

patch70

New Member
Jun 19, 2003
1,682
0
0
52
hombredesubaru said:
oh well

too bad the discussion here has degenerated into ungrammatical nonsensical muck
If you are going to be picky about grammar, please start your sentences with a capital letter, insert commas between adjectives and finish the sentence with a full stop.
 

Eldrack

New Member
Jan 10, 2005
1,353
2
0
Statement by Armstrong released, from cyclingnews.com

Armstrong blasts WADA chief Pound, closes door definitively on comeback

Tim Maloney, by European Editor

In a Thursday afternoon conference call with Lance Armstrong, Bill Stapleton and Armstrong's attorney Mark S. Levinstein of Williams & Connolly, Armstrong's agent Stapleton came out firing with both barrels against WADA head **** Pound's comments, saying right up front that "what Mr. Pound did today, giving false and misleading statements that try to misdirect and divert the attention away from himself [and WADA] by alleging that the UCI is the source of the leak [of Lance Armstrong's medical control information for 1999] is wrong. The fact is what [L'Equipe journalist] Damien Ressiot got are the testing forms that Lance filled out when he took his tests in 1999. Those forms have a name and a number, but the issue is that there were codes attached to anonymous samples that were leaked to the press. That is where the system broke down here, and is the fundamental question here in terms of the [medical control] system and whether we can have confidence in it. Somebody directed that lab to leak the sample information with the codes and that is the question we should answer first before we start crucifying athletes without any due process. Pound has a long-standing pattern of attacking athletes prior to them having due process and has made statements that are in contradiction of his own [WADA] code. So there is a big problem with the medical control system."

Stapleton acknowledged that Lance Armstrong had approved Damien Ressiot of L'Equipe to review his archived medical control forms at UCI Headquarters in Aigle, Switzerland, but Stapleton underlined the fact that, "the form that the UCI gave Ressiot is not the issue here; we knew he had been given that form... so Pound says if the UCI won't admit that they are the source of the leak, [WADA] will release [UCI President Verbruggen's letter to WADA] and we invite Pound to release the letter. Because we don't have anything to worry about..."

Lance Armstrong also confirmed that they had authorised Ressiot to look at Armstrong's medical control records and Stapleton explained, "let's be clear here; there were six [Proces Verbal medical control] forms shown in the L'Equipe article. We were told at the beginning of the Tour that Ressiot wanted to go to the UCI to see if Lance had ever had any medical exemptions on his forms [TUE, or Therapeutic Use Exemption]. I knew about it, Johan [Bruyneel] knew about it and Lance knew about it, but it was solely to look at the forms to see if there was this medical exemption on it."

Armstrong then commented that, "there have been rumours around the press room for years that I was allowed because of my illness, because of my situation, to use EPO, to use anabolics. I heard that going back to 1999. Ressiot came along and said 'look, I want to help you guys out, everybody's talking about this and I just want to look at one of your [Proces Verbal medical control forms] to see that there's not a TUE on there.' So we said sure, but the point being, [Ressiot] looked at one [medical control form] but they showed six in [L'Equipe]."

When Cyclingnews asked Armstrong where he thought the additional five Proces Verbal medical control forms came from, he said, "that's exactly the point. What's at issue here for us and for **** Pound is the integrity of the [medical control] system. Where did the forms come from? And those are the questions that the UCI has asked WADA. And [WADA] has those answers; [WADA] are not answering those questions. So **** Pound is trying to divert serious ethical issues with WADA and with himself. And if you access to [medical control form] and you can put it up with the sample, there is such a possibility to sabotage the system. The [medical control] system has seriously failed and when these systems fail, you have to go to the head. And [Pound] won't answer the questions."

Armstrong further cast his doubts on the authenticity of the samples, pointing out that after the French team had won the World Cup Soccer in 1998, their samples and medical control information were destroyed in 24 hours. "That's a double standard! Where did the code numbers that went with the forms come from? That's what we're trying to find out. There's a lot on the line. We're not afraid of anything. We're trying to through this process to clear my name to some extent but we're not getting the answers; we don't know," said a frustrated Armstrong.

"I've been through this so many times; this is not our first rodeo with me and the French and doping and drugs and accusations and proof and so called proof. We know what EPO is, we know how strong it is, we know that it works. We know that we were formally investigated in 2000 for 18 months [in France] and they seized everything. And the only result was that the samples were 'too clean... TOO clean!' So it doesn't add up."

Armstrong's attorney Levinstein, who has extensive experience representing athletes, told Cyclingnews that "there was no reason for the lab to put the [medical control] numbers on the samples [from the 1999 Tour], instead of anonymous numbers, unless you are going to match the numbers [with the Proces Verbal medical control forms]. The French lab was responsible for those numbers being on the forms. The lab intentionally ignored medical control protocols to put the numbers on and the only reason they would do such a study with numbers on it is if someone told them to do so and were out to get someone in particular by matching those numbers."

As to whether Armstrong is contemplating legal action, he said that, "all options are open, it's all on the table" and categorically refused to rule out judicial recourse. As for a possible comeback in 2006, a fed up Armstrong put paid to the talk once and for all today, saying "Sitting here in my chair right now... yeah, I opened up the possibility a couple of weeks ago; I thought 'maybe I need to go back to the Tour for another one'. It seemed like the right answer. But sitting here today, dealing with all this stuff again and obviously it would be the Tour, there is no way I could go to France and get a fair shake, either on the roadside, in the doping control, or in the lab, or in the hotel or in the food or whatever. There's no way I could go back there. We're not going back [to France]. I'm happy with way my career ended, the way it went. I'm not coming back."

"I'm in here dealing with his BS," said Armstrong. "I've got three kids out swimming in the pool, splashing around, screaming my name... I'm sick of this."

:END

I'm guessing i have to wait, what, five minutes for LM and WBT to come up with an essay saying how this condemns Armstrong, still, it should be an amusing read.
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Hardly a 'blast' ! More like a whinge or a whimper !


Eldrack said:
Statement by Armstrong released, from cyclingnews.com

Armstrong blasts WADA chief Pound, closes door definitively on comeback

Tim Maloney, by European Editor

In a Thursday afternoon conference call with Lance Armstrong, Bill Stapleton and Armstrong's attorney Mark S. Levinstein of Williams & Connolly, Armstrong's agent Stapleton came out firing with both barrels against WADA head **** Pound's comments, saying right up front that "what Mr. Pound did today, giving false and misleading statements that try to misdirect and divert the attention away from himself [and WADA] by alleging that the UCI is the source of the leak [of Lance Armstrong's medical control information for 1999] is wrong. The fact is what [L'Equipe journalist] Damien Ressiot got are the testing forms that Lance filled out when he took his tests in 1999. Those forms have a name and a number, but the issue is that there were codes attached to anonymous samples that were leaked to the press. That is where the system broke down here, and is the fundamental question here in terms of the [medical control] system and whether we can have confidence in it. Somebody directed that lab to leak the sample information with the codes and that is the question we should answer first before we start crucifying athletes without any due process. Pound has a long-standing pattern of attacking athletes prior to them having due process and has made statements that are in contradiction of his own [WADA] code. So there is a big problem with the medical control system."

Stapleton acknowledged that Lance Armstrong had approved Damien Ressiot of L'Equipe to review his archived medical control forms at UCI Headquarters in Aigle, Switzerland, but Stapleton underlined the fact that, "the form that the UCI gave Ressiot is not the issue here; we knew he had been given that form... so Pound says if the UCI won't admit that they are the source of the leak, [WADA] will release [UCI President Verbruggen's letter to WADA] and we invite Pound to release the letter. Because we don't have anything to worry about..."
:END

I'm guessing i have to wait, what, five minutes for LM and WBT to come up with an essay saying how this condemns Armstrong, still, it should be an amusing read.
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
Armstrong further cast his doubts on the authenticity of the samples, pointing out that after the French team had won the World Cup Soccer in 1998, their samples and medical control information were destroyed in 24 hours. "That's a double standard! Where did the code numbers that went with the forms come from? That's what we're trying to find out. There's a lot on the line. We're not afraid of anything. We're trying to through this process to clear my name to some extent but we're not getting the answers; we don't know," said a frustrated Armstrong.

- Oh but the Festina affair occured after the World Cup final Mr. Armstrong.... we then knew how you boys behaved in the peleton.... weak excuse......

Eldrack said:
Statement by Armstrong released, from cyclingnews.com

Armstrong blasts WADA chief Pound, closes door definitively on comeback

Tim Maloney, by European Editor

In a Thursday afternoon conference call with Lance Armstrong, Bill Stapleton and Armstrong's attorney Mark S. Levinstein of Williams & Connolly, Armstrong's agent Stapleton came out firing with both barrels against WADA head **** Pound's comments, saying right up front that "what Mr. Pound did today, giving false and misleading statements that try to misdirect and divert the attention away from himself [and WADA] by alleging that the UCI is the source of the leak [of Lance Armstrong's medical control information for 1999] is wrong. The fact is what [L'Equipe journalist] Damien Ressiot got are the testing form
:END

I'm guessing i have to wait, what, five minutes for LM and WBT to come up with an essay saying how this condemns Armstrong, still, it should be an amusing read.
 

Ullefan

New Member
Jul 14, 2004
727
0
0
What he really means is, ''I wish I never took EPO in 1999, what goes around comes around. I've just been stabbed in the back by Verbruggen when I gave 500,000 to him! If I put by hands on my ears and hum, maybe this will all go away.''
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
thebluetrain said:
"No other still competing cyclists have stood by him"???? Didnt I just start a thread the other day about Roger Hammond? LA didnt create "this world". L'Equipe and the media created it. How did this mess turn into something LA created? He was on his way out the door into retirement. Easy on the caffeine WBT.
To the contry TBT; Hammond had to change his remarks after the DC PR boys got to him. (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/sep05/sep02news2)

Haven't seen any statments from good brother Hincapie in support.... everyone is watching there backs and looking after themselves. Even so called best friends.
 

musette

New Member
Aug 29, 2003
2,434
0
0
whiteboytrash said:
Haven't seen any statments from good brother Hincapie in support.... everyone is watching there backs and looking after themselves. Even so called best friends.

That you haven't managed to see any statements from Hincapie doesn't mean there weren't any. It just means you failed to see them. :cool: :D

Hincapie made statements in support of LA around the time Hincapie won the GP Ouest France Plouay, a ProTour event. He chose the time when he would get maximum PR coverage -- around the time of his win. He also reacted quickly after the L'Equipe allegations.

"Questioned about that [L'Equipe] matter, Hincapie ... like the whole Discovery Channel team, gave a quick answer: "I'm Lance's biggest supporter. He's my best friend. He's a hero to billions of people including myself. It's a shame that some people don't like him but he's a hero to me."

(cyclingnews report of race)

Further supportive words from Hincapie:

"I trust Lance and I will always be by his side," said the Discovery Channel rider [Hincapie]... "Lance is a hero for millions of people and it's outrageous to attack him this way."

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-plouay&prov=reuters&type=lgns
 

MJtje

New Member
Feb 6, 2005
1,125
0
0
Ofcourse Hincapie will say that.....

Read this: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/browse_thread/thread/1e8c8554a2458f1d/f648babbf72064a9#f648babbf72064a9

Just accept it..........still one of the best sports in the world!!

musette said:
That you haven't managed to see any statements from Hincapie doesn't mean there weren't any. It just means you failed to see them. :cool: :D

Hincapie made statements in support of LA around the time Hincapie won the GP Ouest France Plouay, a ProTour event. He chose the time when he would get maximum PR coverage -- around the time of his win. He also reacted quickly after the L'Equipe allegations.

"Questioned about that [L'Equipe] matter, Hincapie ... like the whole Discovery Channel team, gave a quick answer: "I'm Lance's biggest supporter. He's my best friend. He's a hero to billions of people including myself. It's a shame that some people don't like him but he's a hero to me."

(cyclingnews report of race)

Further supportive words from Hincapie:

"I trust Lance and I will always be by his side," said the Discovery Channel rider [Hincapie]... "Lance is a hero for millions of people and it's outrageous to attack him this way."

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-plouay&prov=reuters&type=lgns
 

whiteboytrash

New Member
Mar 9, 2005
5,402
0
0
I saw that and all it says what an awesome bloke Lance is... doesn't say... "I rode with Lance for 10 years and I never once saw him dope and I would know spending so much time with him..." - There is more back covering than an episode of Melrose Place ! :D

musette said:
That you haven't managed to see any statements from Hincapie doesn't mean there weren't any. It just means you failed to see them. :cool: :D

Hincapie made statements in support of LA around the time Hincapie won the GP Ouest France Plouay, a ProTour event. He chose the time when he would get maximum PR coverage -- around the time of his win. He also reacted quickly after the L'Equipe allegations.

"Questioned about that [L'Equipe] matter, Hincapie ... like the whole Discovery Channel team, gave a quick answer: "I'm Lance's biggest supporter. He's my best friend. He's a hero to billions of people including myself. It's a shame that some people don't like him but he's a hero to me."

(cyclingnews report of race)

Further supportive words from Hincapie:

"I trust Lance and I will always be by his side," said the Discovery Channel rider [Hincapie]... "Lance is a hero for millions of people and it's outrageous to attack him this way."

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-plouay&prov=reuters&type=lgns
 

musette

New Member
Aug 29, 2003
2,434
0
0
whiteboytrash said:
I saw that and all it says what an awesome bloke Lance is...

Backpedalling isn't going to help you. Here is your earlier statement, which is, not surprisingly, inaccurate. :cool:

whiteboytrash said:
To the contry TBT; Hammond had to change his remarks after the DC PR boys got to him. (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/sep05/sep02news2)

Haven't seen any statments from good brother Hincapie in support.... everyone is watching there backs and looking after themselves. Even so called best friends.

No statements from Hincapie "in support" is your earlier assertion, which is clearly inaccurate (or, if you had read the Hincapie statements before your earlier post, at best intentionally misleading). :D Hincapie stated he trusts LA. In the context of the L'Equipe article, that means that he believes LA's account of the events regarding not having used performance-enhancing EPO.