Armstrong and Ferrari



Robert Chung wrote:
>
> Tom Paterson wrote:
> >
> > I would guess that those who complain about USPS operating deficits are the loudest squealers
> > when letter rates are raised (sooo-ey!).
>
> The USPS does *not* have an operating deficit -- it actually cleared a *profit* of about $4.5
> billion from operations in FY2003. It still has $2 billion in accumulated debt.
>
> http://www.usps.com/history/anrpt03/

Deficit since reorganization $(2,168)

Funny how year to year data can be twisted to the will of the presenter.
 
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:53:35 +1100, Jeff Jones wrote:
> Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong and/or
> the cycling team?

Nope.
 
Jeff Jones wrote:
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong
>>> and/or the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure they get during
>>> the Tour, but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la
>>> Quick.Step?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or DHL in Europe? Ever seen a
>> USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for shipment to the US or anyplace else?
>>
> No, but I haven't looked ;-) I receive parcels either via FedEx or ordinary post, and I've seen
> UPS and DHL trucks around Gent. But nothing recognisable as USPS.
>
> What's the story in France? Robert? Anyone? Bueller?

No ads, no pickup, no drop-off, no presence.
 
Tom Arsenault wrote:

> As far as I know and or have read in the past, Armstrong has never denied working with Ferrari in
> the past, and I believe he consults with him now, or has in the recent past. I think is much adieu
> about nothing once again. I'm sure the Armstrong pundits will have everyone believe different.

Doncha just love those bilingual puns?
 
People in the States can use USPS to send stuff to France. A local company handles the deliveries on
the French side. No USPS presence.

Robert Chung wrote:
> Jeff Jones wrote:
>> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong
>>>> and/or the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure they get during
>>>> the Tour, but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la
>>>> Quick.Step?
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or DHL in Europe? Ever seen a
>>> USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for shipment to the US or anyplace else?
>>>
>> No, but I haven't looked ;-) I receive parcels either via FedEx or ordinary post, and I've seen
>> UPS and DHL trucks around Gent. But nothing recognisable as USPS.
>>
>> What's the story in France? Robert? Anyone? Bueller?
>
> No ads, no pickup, no drop-off, no presence.
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jeff Jones wrote:
> > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>>
> >>> Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS featuring Lance Armstrong
> >>> and/or the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure they get during
> >>> the Tour, but whether they're actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la
> >>> Quick.Step?
> >>>
> >>> Jeff
> >>
> >> Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or DHL in Europe? Ever seen
> >> a USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for shipment to the US or anyplace else?
> >>
> > No, but I haven't looked ;-) I receive parcels either via FedEx or ordinary post, and I've seen
> > UPS and DHL trucks around Gent. But nothing recognisable as USPS.
> >
> > What's the story in France? Robert? Anyone? Bueller?
>
> No ads, no pickup, no drop-off, no presence.
>
Nothing in Southern Germany either. UPS is the dominant courier here.
 
On 03/03/2004 11:20 AM, in article 404621E3.7B4B08F3@hocuspocus_ti.com,
"gwhite" <gwhite@hocuspocus_ti.com> wrote:

>
>
> GaryG wrote:
>>
>
>> And, as a recipient of packages, I much prefer USPS where my package is delivered securely in a
>> locked box instead of being left out on my porch.
>
> By law the other package carriers are not allowed to put packages in the "mailbox."

And even if they were allowed to, they can't in many places ... My mailbox only opens with a key.

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
 
"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Just curious, has anyone ever seen any TV ads in Europe for USPS
> featuring
> > > Lance Armstrong and/or the cycling team? I'm not talking about the (considerable) TV exposure
> > > they get during the Tour, but whether
they're
> > > actually allowed to do anything extra with the team, a la Quick.Step?
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Have you ever seen a USPS delivery truck competing with FedEx, UPS or
DHL
> in
> > Europe? Ever seen a USPS office in Europe to drop off packages for
> shipment
> > to the US or anyplace else?
> >
> No, but I haven't looked ;-) I receive parcels either via FedEx or
ordinary
> post, and I've seen UPS and DHL trucks around Gent. But nothing
recognisable
> as USPS.
>
> What's the story in France? Robert? Anyone? Bueller?

Any 'regular' mail sent to or from the USA goes USPS. It's cheaper and generally faster.
 
"Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs to cyclists there. His
>work with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years ago. The doctor
>already had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at the complexities

All the trials last an "eternity" over here. Sometimes civil litigations go on and on for decades.
That's because of senseless old procedures that were thought for the simple world of 100 years ago,
when very few went to court. Most of those procedures were never changed. So, Michele Ferrari's case
is not a particularly complex one. Those are normal trial times in this nation.
 
Jeff your original question was broader than 'USPS publicity in Europe' (and we have discussed
umpteen times they are not active here, mostly around the Vuelta), but about the use of Lance or the
team in publicity.

If you'd visit more DIY chains, you'd see plenty of Lance there.
 
"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Jeff your original question was broader than 'USPS publicity in Europe'
(and we
> have discussed umpteen times they are not active here, mostly around the Vuelta), but about the
> use of Lance or the team in publicity.
>
> If you'd visit more DIY chains, you'd see plenty of Lance there.
>
Exactly - Berry Floor is getting far more value out of Lance in Europe than USPS is, because USPS
(being a govt. run business), isn't allowed to. That's what I've gathered anyway.

Jeff
 
"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Jeff your original question was broader than 'USPS publicity in Europe'
> (and we
> > have discussed umpteen times they are not active here, mostly around the Vuelta), but about the
> > use of Lance or the team in publicity.
> >
> > If you'd visit more DIY chains, you'd see plenty of Lance there.
> >
> Exactly - Berry Floor is getting far more value out of Lance in Europe
than
> USPS is, because USPS (being a govt. run business), isn't allowed to.
That's
> what I've gathered anyway.
>
> Jeff

Not quite accurate. USPS is allowed to advertise. They do it in many markets here in the US where
they are in direct competition with FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. The issue they have been criticised for is
sponsoring a Euro based team. True, they have gotten tremendous publicity here in the US since
Krispy began his streak. But, some critics have alleged that there is no proof of increased market
share from that investment, much like Quick-Step can demonstrate with their spronship/market share.
To be fair to USPS, they have also been criticised for advertising in baseball/football stadiums.
 
Brian Lafferty wrote:
> But, some critics have alleged that there is no proof of increased market share from that
> investment

Employee morale and recruiting are also important factors in an organization associating itself with
a winning team.

Dan
 
"Dan Connelly" <djconnel@i_e_e_e._o_r_g> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Brian Lafferty wrote:
> > But, some critics have alleged that there is no proof of increased market share from that
> > investment
>
> Employee morale and recruiting are also important factors in an
organization
> associating itself with a winning team.
>
> Dan

True. I saw a very middle-aged looking postal carrier in the local market last week with a
USPS team hat.

I was also driving through Agawam, MA last Sunday, taking my daughter to a birthday party when I saw
a rather run down house sporting a Lion of Flanders flag. That amazed me.
 
Tom Paterson wrote:
>
> >From: gwhite
>
> >Neither of the latter (UPS, FedEx), for the
> >> mountains of advertising money spent, has succeeded in linking to the equal
> >of
> >> Mr. Armstrong.
>
> >???
>
> For either sporting accomplishments or the Foundation.

They are not in the business of "sporting accomplishments," so why should they? What "Foundation?"

> (I wrote):
> >> I would guess that those who complain about USPS operating deficits are the loudest squealers
> >> when letter rates are raised (sooo-ey!).
>
> (GW replied):
>
> >And why not?
>
> Agreed, consistent with general behavior. Like I said, sooo-ey!
>
> (me):
>
> >> Of course the reality is that USPS is a plum to be picked, could it be reached.
>
> (GW agrees):
>
> >Exactly. But it can't because it is a >protected monopoly.
>
> Long may it be so.

The fact that it is *not* a natural monopoly makes the sustenance of it (as protected by government
decree) wholly and unquestionably corrupt. Given the self evidence of this fact, supporters of it
are either morally bankrupt or just plain don't have the mental horsepower to see it. Okay, I'll
accept the lesser "uneducated" excuse (for a few minutes anyway).

If you support it, you are elitist. Basically it screws more people than it helps. Many
people/businesses are locked out of providing mail delivery service because of the decreed monopoly,
and there is little doubt that letter delivery costs are higher than they would be if the monopoly
were broken. It's always nice to be on the "good-ole-boy" inside. The Postal Service is basically
one giant political rent seeking machine. It is pure corruption no matter how one slices it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A27504-
2001Aug31&notFound=true

"As the postmaster general until I retired three months ago..."

"What the Postal Service needs now is nothing short of privatization."

> (me):
>
> >> Then the mail could go to hell like the airlines ...
>
> (GW replies):
>
> >Yes, the airlines are a major disaster. More people are flying than ever before. Great point.
>
> Even before 9/11, the level of service compared to earlier years (in my limited experience)
> suffered. More people (if true) are flying despite the problems.

It is more egalitarian now than ever before because a greater diversity of people are able to take
advantage of it. But you are apparently elitist in your philosophical stance.
 
B. Lafferty wrote:
> True. I saw a very middle-aged looking postal carrier in the local market last week with a USPS
> team hat.
>
> I was also driving through Agawam, MA last Sunday, taking my daughter to a birthday party when I
> saw a rather run down house sporting a Lion of Flanders flag. That amazed me.
>
>

Maybe the US Armed Forces Reserves should sponsor a team. They need all the recruiting help they can
get. The jersey can be a mock-up of desert fatigues. Haliberton can supply the bikes.

Dan
 
Tom Paterson wrote:
>

> It's all political.

As if anything isn't?

> Here in Texas, they're trying to get uncertified persons teaching "permits" ...

Sounds good. It is time to break that racket up too.

> ...which is really an attack on the public schools that some don't want to support with
> their taxes.

I'm not typically socialist. However, if there is an area where I have that tendency, it is for at
least some measure of egalitarianism in society when it comes to opportunity and access to
education. In other words, I am quite willing to be taxed for the purchase of at least some
education of all children and even adults. (Even if I never have my own children.)

That doesn't mean the check is blank, nor does it mean that "public" schools should have a guarantee
of funding. I see no reason why some parents should have to pay for the schooling of their children
twice. The public schools have simply become another rent seeking monolith, instructors and
administrators alike.

> IOW, if performance goes down, they don't care about the cause as long as they can have an excuse
> to find fault.

Why should they waste their time figuring it out? It makes no sense for them to "figure it out," it
isn't their job to do so. If the professionals can't figure it out, then pay a *different*
professional that has figured it out. Or at the very least have the economic freedom to *seek* a
different professional. But when the cash is locked up in the public school near monopoly, then
poorer parents have *no choice* and the problems inexorably persist because there is no real
incentive for the insiders to figure it out. There is no impact if they don't. The public school
near monopoly is anti economic freedom, and is therefore anti-freedom in the most basic sense. It is
again corrupt. It is elitist and designed not for the students, but for those on the inside of
economic benefit (economic rents).

I wouldn't bother figuring out why the mechanic didn't fix my car correctly. I would just head on
down the road and give someone else a shot. But those insiders of the public school monolith
think they are better than the person who fixes cars for a living. They are elitist. They are
morally corrupt.
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
>
> Not quite accurate. USPS is allowed to advertise. They do it in many markets here in the US where
> they are in direct competition with FedEx,
UPS,
> DHL, etc. The issue they have been criticised for is sponsoring a Euro

No, I'm wondering if they're allowed to advertise in *Europe* with Lance and
co. as the vehicle. I don't think they are (according to what I've been told), hence the distinct
lack of USPS/Lance ads on TV here.

Jeff
 
"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
> >
> > Not quite accurate. USPS is allowed to advertise. They do it in many markets here in the US
> > where they are in direct competition with FedEx,
> UPS,
> > DHL, etc. The issue they have been criticised for is sponsoring a Euro
>
> No, I'm wondering if they're allowed to advertise in *Europe* with Lance
and
> co. as the vehicle. I don't think they are (according to what I've been told), hence the distinct
> lack of USPS/Lance ads on TV here.
>
> Jeff

Don't know the legal answer to that. However, isn't the USPS logo on jerseys and vehicles a form of
advertising?
 
Dan Connelly wrote:
>
> Brian Lafferty wrote:
> > But, some critics have alleged that there is no proof of increased market share from that
> > investment
>
> Employee morale and recruiting are also important factors in an organization associating itself
> with a winning team.

Oh please.
 

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