Armstrong and Ferrari



"Dan Connelly" <djconnel@i_e_e_e._o_r_g> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> B. Lafferty wrote:
> > True. I saw a very middle-aged looking postal carrier in the local
market
> > last week with a USPS team hat.
> >
> > I was also driving through Agawam, MA last Sunday, taking my daughter to
a
> > birthday party when I saw a rather run down house sporting a Lion of Flanders flag. That
> > amazed me.
> >
> >
>
> Maybe the US Armed Forces Reserves should sponsor a team. They need all the recruiting help they
> can get. The jersey can be a mock-up of desert fatigues. Haliberton can supply the bikes.
>
> Dan

Halliberton would have a hard time overcharging for bicycles when going up against some of the
better known Italian manufacturers in the peloton. They have it down to an art.

Seriously though, there was a US Army cycling team back in the 1970s when I began racing. I think Al
Toefield was involved in some way with it. One of the national road team members was on the Army
team. Can't recall his name off the top of my head. Nice guy. He raced a few times at Old Westbury
with us in the races that Vito Petrucci used to run.
 
Davide Tosi wrote:
> "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs to cyclists there. His
>> work with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years ago. The doctor
>> already had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at the
>> complexities
>
> All the trials last an "eternity" over here. Sometimes civil litigations go on and on for decades.
> That's because of senseless old procedures that were thought for the simple world of 100 years
> ago, when very few went to court. Most of those procedures were never changed. So, Michele
> Ferrari's case is not a particularly complex one. Those are normal trial times in this nation.
>
So does everybody get out on bail, or do some people spend 5 years in custody before it's proven
that they're innocent?
 
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > No, I'm wondering if they're allowed to advertise in *Europe* with Lance
> and
> > co. as the vehicle. I don't think they are (according to what I've been told), hence the
> > distinct lack of USPS/Lance ads on TV here.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Don't know the legal answer to that. However, isn't the USPS logo on jerseys and vehicles a form
> of advertising?
>
Of course. But it's not the same as Richard Virenque, Servais Knaven, Paolo Bettini, Johan Museeuw
and Tom Boonen holding a plank of wood with the words "real champions choose Quick.Step" above them.
Or appearing in TV ads and being the basis of Quick.Step's marketing campaign. Having USPS on the
side of the car and on the jerseys will of course generate a lot of exposure, but they can't take it
any further than that. Anyway there's no point debating this until I can find out for sure, so I'll
leave it at:

According to a recent survey of RBR denizens, there are no USPS ads featuring "the team" on TV
in Europe.

Jeff
 
On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:20:18 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Seriously though, there was a US Army cycling team back in the 1970s when I began racing. I think
>Al Toefield was involved in some way with it. One of the national road team members was on the Army
>team. Can't recall his name off the top of my head. Nice guy. He raced a few times at Old Westbury
>with us in the races that Vito Petrucci used to run.

The Army team included John Howard about that time, among others, and use to provide large chunks of
the Pan American Games bicyling team, when the Pan Americans were about as close as we got to
international racing, at least with any success. There was also a New York/Puerto Rican (I could
have that wrong, though, since its from memory) who was also a national team member that was on the
Army team, that raced a long time up and down the East Coast.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
 
"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > No, I'm wondering if they're allowed to advertise in *Europe* with
Lance
> > and
> > > co. as the vehicle. I don't think they are (according to what I've
been
> > > told), hence the distinct lack of USPS/Lance ads on TV here.
> > >
> > > Jeff
> >
> > Don't know the legal answer to that. However, isn't the USPS logo on jerseys and vehicles a form
> > of advertising?
> >
> Of course. But it's not the same as Richard Virenque, Servais Knaven,
Paolo
> Bettini, Johan Museeuw and Tom Boonen holding a plank of wood with the
words
> "real champions choose Quick.Step" above them. Or appearing in TV ads and being the basis of
> Quick.Step's marketing campaign. Having USPS on the
side
> of the car and on the jerseys will of course generate a lot of exposure,
but
> they can't take it any further than that. Anyway there's no point debating this until I can find
> out for sure, so I'll leave it at:
>
> According to a recent survey of RBR denizens, there are no USPS ads featuring "the team" on TV
> in Europe.

Jeff, have you been to law school in another life?? You are making a good lawyer's distinction
between advertising and publicity. Today's Golden Shark Award is yours. ;-)
 
I don't think I've seen any US USPS commercials or ads with Lance or team in them either. Lance stuff is pasted all over USPS packaging and in posters at the post office. Lance is in commercials for Subaru and Nike, but not for USPS... that I've seen.
 
Tom Paterson wrote:
>
> >From: gwhite
>
> (I wrote):
> >> Here in Texas, they're trying to get uncertified persons teaching "permits" ...
>
> (GW replied):
> >Sounds good. It is time to break that >racket up too.
>
> Possible translation: "I don't care who teaches other people's kids as long as it's cheap." Or
> maybe your own kids...

No. "If you don't perform I'm not going to give you money in perpetuity."

That's how I live and work every day. That's how most outsiders live. They (school folk) want a
special position of privilege, of entitlement. They are elitest.

> >That doesn't mean the check is blank, nor does it mean that "public" schools should have a
> >guarantee of funding.
>
> We've seen the reality of storefront schools here in Texas. Not pretty. At least as bad as
> anything "exposed" in the public schools.

Ridiculous. Release the cash locked up by the public monolith and *then* see what happens.

> < Isee no reason why some parents should have to pay for the
> >schooling of their children twice.
>
> This is usually a religion thing, where parents don't want their kids exposed to the
> secular world.

Maybe, I'm not the least bit religious, but that is their choice with their wards. So I cannot
support the idea of impinging upon their freedom there.

> Also folks who don't think the public schools are good enough for their kids. These are your real
> elitists.

Ridiculous. That's like telling the cleanup batter who keeps striking out that all they really need
is more money. To criticize is apparently "unfair" and "insensitive" in some parallel universe.

I have nothing against a public school per se, other than the fact that the money is locked up.

> As is often the case, you can tell a real elitist by their reluctance to pay taxes.

Where does the sense of entitlement come from? If you are entitled, then I want the entitlement too,
but you haven't forked it out.

> > The public schools have simply become another rent seeking monolith, instructors and
> > administrators alike.
>
> Yeah, Rod Paige took a big pay cut when he went to Washington. The teachers? Here's a quote:
>
> <On July 16, the American Federation of Teachers issued its annual teacher salary survey for 2000-
> 2001. This report shows that the average pay for Texas teachers is $38,359. The national average
> is $43,250,? said Cole.>
>
> It's hard to pay much rent on that kind of pay.

Given the apparent dissatisfaction, even that is apparently too much. Release the cash and the
talent will come and get accordingly compensated.

> >But those insiders of the public school monolith think they are better than the person who fixes
> >cars for a living. They are elitist. They are morally corrupt.
>
> I don't think you've spent five minutes inside a public school.

Overwhelmingly wrong. Again, I have nothing against them if they are working. In fact, if they are
working, not many students would likely flee. But in any case, the money shouldn't be locked up.

> The "morally corrupt" nonsense is, again, rhetoric of attack used by those who see the schools as
> a plum to be picked, ...

Ridiculous. There is no reason any certain particular group should get to universally own the plum
trees by government decree in the fist place. That is the corruption.

> ...as you have admitted inre the USPS.

I could not care less whether privitization in the future made them a huge success or they
eventually dissolved due to management incompetance. The sell off wouldn't make much of a dent in
the country's debt, for example. The fundamental issue for me is that there is simply no good reason
for it to be a government decreed monopoly that locks out others. There is _no reason_ other than a
special interest group protecting their position.

"That's the way it is. That's the way it was. That's the way it is. How come? Just because." -- Gary
Myrick lyric

> Service will improve with reduced oversight?

Irrelevent, although you could probably expect to pay less than 37 cents on average, even if
USPS died off.

> Hasn't worked very well in the financial world, has it?

Stores are teaming with a huge variety of wonderful goods that even relatively poor people can
purchase and take home. It has worked very well. Corrupt or just poorly functioning companies get
killed off, like Enron for example. That is the correct result. If the government screws up, they
don't get shut down. They simply point out that they just didn't have enough money to do it quite
right. Up go the taxes. No consequences, no regrets. Let us slay Leviathan.
 
On 04 Mar 2004 21:58:03 GMT, [email protected] (Tom Paterson)
wrote:

>This is usually a religion thing, where parents don't want their kids exposed to the secular world.

Well, in DC there are a whole lot of non-Catholics that I know, mostly black middle class, that
are pulling together the money to put their kids into Catholic schools. They talk about
discipline, from the general atmosphere to the teachers to the kids. Religion doesn't appear to
have much to do with it.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
 
"Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Davide Tosi wrote:
>> "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Ferrari is on trial in Italy, charged with illegally administering drugs to cyclists there. His
>>> work with Armstrong was revealed in the London Sunday Times almost three years ago. The doctor
>>> already had been charged at the time. His trial has lasted an eternity, hinting at the
>>> complexities
>>
>> All the trials last an "eternity" over here. Sometimes civil litigations go on and on for
>> decades. That's because of senseless old procedures that were thought for the simple world of 100
>> years ago, when very few went to court. Most of those procedures were never changed. So, Michele
>> Ferrari's case is not a particularly complex one. Those are normal trial times in this nation.
>>
>So does everybody get out on bail, or do some people spend 5 years in custody before it's proven
>that they're innocent?

Bail is not common on the Italian judicial system. You can be jailed before being condemned only if
1 or more of the following 3 conditions occour:
1) There's a serious chance that the suspect may repeat the crime.
2) There's a serious chance that the suspect may run away
3) There's a serious chance that the suspect may manipulate the proofs of his crime So in some cases
(i.e. a confessed uxoricide who presented himself spontaneously to the police) it may be that the
suspect stays some years at house arrests before being jailed, after the final process. But
sometimes it happened that someone stayed in prison for a few years and than was claimed
innocent. A few decades ago you just wasted part of your life and that was it. Nowadays when that
happens, the State ends up paying huge quantities of money to those people, usually after even
longer civil trials.
 
"Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> So in some cases (i.e. a confessed uxoricide who presented himself spontaneously to the police) it
> may be that the suspect stays some years
at
> house arrests before being jailed, after the final process. But sometimes it happened that someone
> stayed in prison for a few years
and
> than was claimed innocent. A few decades ago you just wasted part of your life and that was it.
> Nowadays when that happens, the State ends up paying huge quantities of money to those people,
> usually after even longer civil trials.
>

That must be the first time the word "uxoricide" has been used on rbr--congrats!
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Tom Paterson) wrote:

> >From: Curtis L. Russell
>
> >Well, in DC there are a whole lot of non-Catholics that I know, mostly black
> >middle class, that are pulling together the money to put their kids into
> >Catholic schools. They talk about discipline, from the general atmosphere to
> >the teachers to the kids.
>
> Should have said "IME". I'd imagine that DC is not the only place that parents
> would want to get their kids out of the public schools, which have much less
> choice about who attends. This aspect is often glossed over, the difference in
> ambiance accredited to "God being in the school". (Again qualifying) IMHO it's
> really because the troublemakers can be kept out.
>
> I'm somewhat familiar with this as my sister has taught inner city elementary
> in Harrisburg PA for @ twenty-seven years.
>
> >Religion doesn't appear to have much to do with it.
>
> They'll put up with religious intrusion to have a better school environment for
> their kids. Smart choice, given the alternative.
>
> This is nothing new, and as a matter of fact, I lived in a small Midwestern
> city where some of the "problem" kids *were* sent to the Catholic school
> because the nuns had little limitation on corporal punishment, again unlike the
> public schools. --TP

Tommy was doing very badly in math. His parents had tried everything: tutors,
flash cards, special learning centers. In short, everything they could think
of. As a last ditch effort, they enrolled him in the local Catholic School.
After the first day, Tommy comes home with a very serious look on his face. He
goes straight to his room and starts studying. Books and papers are spread out
all over the room and Tommy is hard at work. His mother is amazed. She calls
him down to dinner and to her shock, the minute he is done he marches back to
his room without a word and is back hitting the books as hard as before. This
goes on day after day, while the mother tries to understand what made all the
difference. Finally, Tommy brings home his report card. He quietly lays it on
the table and goes up to his room and hits the books. With great trepidation,
his mom looks at it and to her surprise, Tommy got an A in math. Unable to
contain her curiosity, she goes to his room and says: "Son, what was it? Was
it the nuns?" Tommy looks at her and shakes his head. "Well then, was it the
books, the discipline, the structure, the uniforms, WHAT was it?" Little Tommy
looks at her and says, "Well, on the first day of school, I knew they weren't
fooling around when I saw that guy nailed to the plus sign."

--
tanx, Howard

"Food plus heat equals cooking"
Alton Brown

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 

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