Armstrong and Lemond Relationship

[MSH]

What is it with these two guys? I know there was the accusations back in 2001 when Lemond questioned Armstrong's relationship with physician Michele Ferrari, who was linked to EPO. Lemond subsequently apologized for the insinuations/accusations.

Well, Lemond is back at it again!!.... http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpcWU3ZWcyBF9TAzk1OTEyNTc0BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=afp-cycling_tour_usa_lemond&prov=afp&type=lgns

Is this jealousy? Does anyone have additional insight that I'm not aware of?

Thanks,
MSH

 

[eduardoSC]

i should probably defer to people who were following cycling long before I did- but then again Lemond backers don't seem to have any more perspective than Armstrong fanatics

myself, I started following cycling in 92, the waning years of GL's career, the dawn of Armstrong's, but almost a decade before he became an international phenomenon. I hold them both in high regard..BUT

I have no idea what prompts Lemond to make these statements. At best it sounds like sour grapes on his part. At worst, I believe he implicates himself. If I believe Lemond's statements (and from what I just read he is clearly stating he believes LA is taking/has taken EPO) - then why should I believe he wasn't doped to the gills throughout his career ?? If doping controls can't detect everything in 2004, how much further behind the times were they in 1986?

from VeloNews: ""The problem with Lance is that you're either a liar or you're out to destroy cycling," said LeMond who won in 1986, 1989 and 1990. "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."

So, per Lemond, it's a foregone conclusion Armstrong dopes. How/why does he think this?

would also appreciate insight into Lemond's motives here

 

[Perro Loco]

I have no perspective, having followed cycling - TDf since the mid 80s.

I'm not sure what this acomplishes for Greg. It does come across as bitternes,
I remember when Armstrong won his fourth- Lemond was asked if it bothered him (LA having surpassed his win total) and he said no because he always felt he really had 4 wins (1985 held back by team so Hinault could win).

He and other americans from the early 90s complained about two speeds in the peleton and not being able to keep up- and while that was true- Greg also didn't put in the time during the off season as his career entered the latter parts- pre 90 and 91 tour he had very unimpressive results and looked like Jan Ullrich does in the spring.

Unfortunately, this will probably get worse. If Armstrong has taken Epo (outside of his Chemo treatments) or other enhancers it would be a terrible blow to cycling. If he hasn't it is very hard to prove a negative. So far the evidence from the Walsh book sounds less than convincing. I don't read french so I have to make my opinion based on what others have reported.

 

[mattp71]

I wish Greg would just STFU.

Everytime I see one of his bikes on a ride, or one of his ads, my stomach cringes. The guy who is riding the Lemond bike always gets dropped at some point.

 

[tafi]

The fact that these storms of accusations and persecutions blow up so regularly makes me wonder about not just Armstrong, or any one rider for that matter, but it makes me worry about the sport as a whole.

The drugs issue is big and it's not just a few small fish. This is bigger than Lemond Armstrong and Merckx put together.
People are nervous about it and that's because it is closer to ther surface of the sport than at any other time in history and the minute anyone finds out the awful truth, whatever that may be, public support will fall away very quickly and cycling will be over at a professional level. The trouble is, the more the issue is avoided with platitiudes and niceties, the bigger the fall wil be when the whole storm blows up.
I prefer not to damn any one individual unless there is proof but the sheer amount of sniping and the revelations which have come out before, makes me worry that, at the very least, all is not right with cycling.

 

[dongenero]

Greg Lemond says that just because you have not been caught does not mean you're innocent. That is arguably a true statement but nontheless pretty ridiculous as well as inflammatory. I don't know what this big chip on Lemond's shoulder is about but, I think it looks like sour grapes.
From what standpoint can he say you can't win 5 tours unless you're doping...yet he won 3 and that is somehow different? In fact, when Lemond won his Tours, the doping control was FAR less stringent and sophisticated than today.
It is also clear that Armstrong works much harder year round than lemond did.
Lemond always came out of winter looking more like Ullrich than Armstrong. I know he did do a good deal of xc-skiing in the winters but then became concerned about the muscle mass it added in the upper body. Hmmm, maybe it was just all of the holiday food adding body mass.
I believe he also was diagnosed with a degenerative muscular condition that basically ended his career.
Who knows, had he been more diligent in the off season and not been injured in the hunting accident or developed his medical problem perhaps he would have won 5 tours.
For now, he should probably just keep his mouth shut. It makes him look petty.

 

[Austin15]

I ride a Lemond, I am emberassed. Lemond should keep his mouth shut, and let the scientists determine the truth.

Pro-cycling (especially here in America) will never recover if LA is found guilty. We all need heroes, Lance is certainly one for MANY people... The backlash of a positive reading would be enermous.

 

[Austin15]

My Lemond is changing names. It is becoming a Lance. It may look hoaky and dumb, but I just can't accept myself riding a bike with Greg's name on it. I have the tape and markers ready!!

 

[La Bombonera]

Greg LeMond is so transparent. Here are my thoughts (from another post):

Greg LeMond's A Jealous Man

I wish LeMond would realize his legacy is intact, but his 15 minutes are up... quite being self-important.
Adam

 

[craigstanton]

The thing that gets me most about LeMond's behavior is this -- no matter what ultimately proves to be true of Lance, the way in which LeMond has attacked him over the past three years just makes LeMond look bad. He genuinely appears to be motivated by spite, anger . . . rather than concern. I grew up idolozing LeMond and Hampsten. I remember LeMond being given the SI Sportsman of the Year award, and the front cover picture was of him holding his young son up on his shoulders over his head with the yellow jersey on. I was so taken with these two as diplomats of cycling in America. I believe they are responsible for turning on a generation of American riders to the sport . . . and to see such a legend disassemble himself and his credentials in this way seems such a shame. He needs to just close his mouth. If he has concerns for Lance's health, he should contact Lance privately to discuss it. The last thing he should do is to allow the French media to quote him spewing such needless vitriol.

That's my 2 cents. In the end, it's just a shame for LeMond. A great champion who has made an ass of himself forever, no matter what the ultimate outcome on Lance.

 

[quinno121]

I think that Lemond is jealous not only that hehas won 5 tours in a row but also that he has taken the fame away from him and he is doing this to get some media attention. Lemond used to be the hotshot in America but then Armstrong came along and took away his fame.
As for Armstrong on drugs i think no, but from all the thing lemond pops up with i think he might be on a bit of EPO himself.

 

[steve007]

I think LA's response indicates the bigger gentleman of the two:
--
"Greg LeMond was my idol and I came to cycling because he was a great champion and did some incredible things on his bike," Armstrong said Friday.
--

 

[findagroove]

Armstrong is the Merckx of American cycling now. The proliferation of yellow wristbands, multitude of magazine covers, TV commercials, and rock star girlfriend has driven LeMond bezerk. It doesn't help that his spin class bikes are probably outselling his road bikes.

He can't hold back anymore - Greg "is ready to do anything" to convince you of Armstrong's guilt.

 

[babylou]

Greg Lemond says that just because you have not been caught does not mean you're innocent. That is arguably a true statement....

Millar never failed a drug test yet admitted to doping for several years. There are masking drugs that can be taken to cover the fact that one is taking a banned substance.

From what standpoint can he say you can't win 5 tours unless you're doping...yet he won 3 and that is somehow different? In fact, when Lemond won his Tours, the doping control was FAR less stringent and sophisticated than today..

Lemond was a phenom and jr. world champ at 16 years old. It was obvious he was a future champ. They also had not invented EPO when Lemond was winning TDF's.

It is also clear that Armstrong works much harder year round than Lemond did. Lemond always came out of winter looking more like Ullrich than Armstrong. I know he did do a good deal of xc-skiing in the winters but then became concerned about the muscle mass it added in the upper body. Hmmm, maybe it was just all of the holiday food adding body mass..

I think you are being too kind to Lemond. He would use the first week of the tour to lose flab. Armstrong looks like he carries about 4% body fat.

Who knows, had he been more diligent in the off season and not been injured in the hunting accident or developed his medical problem perhaps he would have won 5 tours.

If you count the one he was forced to give to Hinault and he wins the two he missed due to the gunshot wounds he would have had 6 victories. With diligent training maybe he even gets a 7th in 1991. If I recall correctly Lemond at his peak had the highest VO2 max measurement ever recorded.

 

[babylou]

The new blood based doping tests used this year are supposed to be more stringent. Does anyone else find it curious that most of Armstrong's pre-race challengers have seemed to drop off? Maybe they are the dopers and he is the clean one.

 

[craigstanton]

BTW, LeMond appeared on ESPN this weekend to defend his charges against Lance in the French paper LeMonde. Again, though, rather than taking the high road and making a general plea to crack down on doping in pro cycling . . . he makes accusations only against Lance. Yet, he claims again and again to be motivated out of concern for pro cycling. If LeMond is indeed so concerned about the sport, in my opinion he could use his fame in cycling circles to lobby for more aggressive testing -- just as Lance is doing on on his own. This would represent a more serious commitment to change, and important change at that. As it stands though, LeMond appears to be cashing in his own fame for a chance to snipe at Lance. Too bad. LeMond is cashing in his cache' too cheaply, in my opinion. He should work for positive change rather making such sloppy, unsupported public snipes. Unless, of course, all he really cares about is turning Lance's fans into skeptics. Then, he may or may not be succeeding -- but he makes himself look an ass in the process.

 

[zapper]

I ride a Lemond, I am emberassed. Lemond should keep his mouth shut, and let the scientists determine the truth.

Man...no wonder I've been getting dirty looks riding my LeMond... His mouth could be hazardous to my health.... great....

 

[Jakebrake]

Man...no wonder I've been getting dirty looks riding my LeMond... His mouth could be hazardous to my health.... great....

My Dad is already trying to peel the Lemond decals off of his bike.

 

[teamkasnomas]

Bottom line: 21st Century drug testing is 5, 10, 20, maybe even 50 times tougher now than it ever was during Lemond's era (and Hinault's and Merckx's and and and...)

It would be very, very difficult for someone of Lance's level of accomplishment to get away with doping in this day and age. Especially since Lance very well may have to take anti-relapse drugs for the rest of his life. Don't you think that might require an increased level of medical scrutinty?? I doubt anyone in the history of any sport has ever been so closely monitored--self-induced monitoring, no less!--for ingested medications/drugs.

Lemond was the first American to win the Tour, which is incredibly significant. He did a world of good for the sport domestically and internationally, and improved the working conditions of riders everywhere as a result of his (and his dad's) unprecedented savvy with contract negotiation$$$.

But he was also one of the first Americans to race in Europe under European coaches on a European team. Despite his incredible, history-making accomplishments, no American was going to revolutionalize the traditional European approach (which included doping) to cycling overnight. Not even a hugely talented rich kid from Reno.

In Lemond's day, doping was status quo, and no one has ever made a secret of that. So, as others have indicated, perhaps Lance should be revealing reverse accusations! But class always takes the high road. Thanks, Lance.

Smack talk always sucks. But then again, don't trust everything you read or even hear. The media can make anyone sound like they are saying anything about anyone.

The best way to get past all the b.s. is to pick up a copy of the '89 Tour!! Watch it when OLN isn't brodcasting the '04 footage and enjoy the best of both LA and GL!

If you've never seen it, Lemond pulled out a 50+ second deficit in the final TT on the Champs to overcome the equally talented but arrogant Fignon by 8 seconds. You will never watch a more stunning tour. Not before, not after.

It is a fantastic testament to not only Lemond's natural abilities and training--as well as his personal resolve; after almost dying after being shot in a hunting accident just a few years earlier--but the amazing role that technology plays in the advancement of the sport. Had arch-rival Fignon gone with the now ubiquitous TT bike set up and aero helmet, he likely would have kept Lemond's total tour victories to two...8 SECONDS, FOLKS!!

Now, how about this Voeckler kid??

 

[La Bombonera]

Lemond was a phenom and jr. world champ at 16 years old. It was obvious he was a future champ. They also had not invented EPO when Lemond was winning TDF's.

Give me a break... they also didn't have today's advanced sequencing-based drug screening tests either. LeMond could have been on at least 15 less-stealthy substances than EPO.

If you count the one he was forced to give to Hinault and he wins the two he missed due to the gunshot wounds he would have had 6 victories. With diligent training maybe he even gets a 7th in 1991. If I recall correctly Lemond at his peak had the highest VO2 max measurement ever recorded.

I'm amazed I even have to quote and point this out: this is the most hypothetical hogwash I've ever read. Hey, babylou, one cannot "dream" his way to tour victory totals with such generic thinking. And for the record, LeMond is truly regarded as laying-down only once for Hinault. I still can't stop laughing at this statement: "and he wins the two he missed due to the gunshot wounds." I'm surprised you don't think Anquetil should still be winning year in and year out (with diligent training, of course).

Adam