Armstrong and Lemond



E

Ewoud Dronkert

Guest
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:11:26 GMT, B. Lafferty wrote:
> Mill[a]r never tested positive for the EPO he was using. Who was the
> pro rider who said last year that only stupid riders test positive?


There was a radio interview with Marc Lotz yesterday where he said that it
was dumb luck that they found the epo in his freezer. They had a search
warrant because of the growth hormone/steroids investigation (the case
Landuyt/Museeuw etc.) and stumbled upon the epo. He admitted the epo use
earlier and now added that in spite of that he was absolutely sure they
would not catch him by testing, so this accidental discovery was really
just bad luck for him...

--
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Jack Hollis a écrit :
>
> I think that Victor Conte is a much more credible source than anyone
> who has made accusations against Lance. It's a fact that Balco
> produced an undetectable steroid and VC says he personally gave
> performance enhancing drugs to Jones.


I don't know about you, but I don't find someone who tried to cheat
the entire track and field community a very reliable person. It reminds
me of the continued use by district attorneys of testimony of
confessions
given to prison cellmates.

> Even so, there is no PF evidence that Jones took drugs.


There you go.

-ilan
 
B. Lafferty wrote:

> Perhaps significantly, Armstrong has not sued Lemond for defamation. That
> is probably because, as a public figure, Armstrong would have to prove
> actual malice in a US court, a rather difficult legal burden. Armstrong
> would also open himself up to discovery including deposition under oath by
> Lemond's attorneys. That could prove interesting and great fun reading.


As you say, such a lawsuit would be incredibly difficult to win,
especially since Greg probably hasn't said anything blatant enough
to be provably false (can't prove a negative) or show reckless
disregard.
That's why the absence of a lawsuit means nothing.
 
K

k.papai

Guest
B. Lafferty wrote:
> You know quite well that not testing positive means nothing today. David
> Miller never tested positive for the EPO he was using.


"was he on Salvodelli's team?"

(quotes for Steven)

Pure genus Jim,
Ken
 
T

Tom

Guest
I thought we were talking about the case between Armstrong and the
company holding his bonus for the 6th Tour de France win, and the
company holding the money said based on the book that came out, they
were investigating to see if he committed a doping offense. This
failure to pay on behalf of the insurance company was based on what was
contained in the book, which while possibly interesting reading,
might have a better use as TP.

I do understand that testing is not an absolute. Pantani never tested
positive either remember. Neither did Frigo and his wife was just
busted with a suitcase-full o' doping products. Barring anything
better though, it is what we have to go on in the doping cases. The
test results. What else do we have? I don't think medical records are
going to show much, and or could be dragged in (you tell me), as
there is a certain right to privacy. Can medical records be subpoened
and brought into an open court? I assume that in some cases they
could.

Tom
 
B

Bob

Guest
> ARMSTRONG:: I'll be a fitness junkie forever, not out of shape like
> some guys. But I'm not naming names... achoo-lemond!


How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great cancer
survivor, but a *****.
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> ARMSTRONG:: I'll be a fitness junkie forever, not out of shape like
>> some guys. But I'm not naming names... achoo-lemond!

>
> How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great
> cancer
> survivor, but a *****.
>
>

Have you read Daniel Coyle's book yet?
 
P

Philo

Guest
>How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great cancer
>survivor, but a *****.


http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040715/3/50zz.html

Lemond: "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't
know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."

What would your response be, Bob? I personally thought the fake sneeze
was funny. Much better than Greg's attack. After all, Lance's
accusation can be proven.
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"Philo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> >How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great
> >cancer
>>survivor, but a *****.

>
> http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040715/3/50zz.html
>
> Lemond: "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't
> know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."
>
> What would your response be, Bob? I personally thought the fake sneeze
> was funny. Much better than Greg's attack. After all, Lance's
> accusation can be proven.
>


It's going to be very interesting to see how Armstrong progresses in
retirement. He'll no longer be on the bike generating the amount of
publicity he does now which means people will be less likely to keep their
mouths shut and grovel to make the dollar. Over the long haul, it's going to
be Armstrong sticking his foot down his throat more and more. I got a call
yesterday from a non-cycling friend who had seen the Playboy interview and
his comment was that he never realized what a jerk Armstrong is. Priceless.
 
E

Eric Hill

Guest
Philo wrote:
>>How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great cancer
>>survivor, but a *****.

>
>
> http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040715/3/50zz.html
>
> Lemond: "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't
> know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."
>
> What would your response be, Bob? I personally thought the fake sneeze
> was funny. Much better than Greg's attack. After all, Lance's
> accusation can be proven.


Maybe they're both pricks.

-eric
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"Eric Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:8AeDe.4812$p%[email protected]
> Philo wrote:
>>>How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great
>>>cancer
>>>survivor, but a *****.

>>
>>
>> http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040715/3/50zz.html
>>
>> Lemond: "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't
>> know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."
>>
>> What would your response be, Bob? I personally thought the fake sneeze
>> was funny. Much better than Greg's attack. After all, Lance's
>> accusation can be proven.

>
> Maybe they're both pricks.
>
> -eric


AFAIK, there are very few people other than Armstrong who speak ill of
Lemond. He has a reputation as being a really nice guy.
 
G

Geraard Spergen

Guest
"B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email protected]
> > AFAIK, there are very few people other than Armstrong who speak ill of

> Lemond. He has a reputation as being a really nice guy.
>


Oh, I've always wanted to do a Google hit statistic:

Results 1 - 10 of about 281 for +lemond +*****.

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,300 for +lemond +"nice guy". (46 to 1: nice)



Results 1 - 10 of about 27,400 for +armstrong +*****.

Results 1 - 10 of about 48,100 for +armstrong +"nice guy". (~2 to 1: nice)
 
R

Robert Crim

Guest
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:00:42 -0400, "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote:

>> ARMSTRONG:: I'll be a fitness junkie forever, not out of shape like
>> some guys. But I'm not naming names... achoo-lemond!

>
>How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great cancer
>survivor, but a *****.
>

Did you actually believe that was real?

R.
 
D

David Ferguson

Guest
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:38:52 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Philo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> >How old is Lance anyway... 12? What a *****. Great bike racer, great
>> >cancer
>>>survivor, but a *****.

>>
>> http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040715/3/50zz.html
>>
>> Lemond: "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't
>> know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."
>>
>> What would your response be, Bob? I personally thought the fake sneeze
>> was funny. Much better than Greg's attack. After all, Lance's
>> accusation can be proven.
>>

>
>It's going to be very interesting to see how Armstrong progresses in
>retirement. He'll no longer be on the bike generating the amount of
>publicity he does now which means people will be less likely to keep their
>mouths shut and grovel to make the dollar. Over the long haul, it's going to
>be Armstrong sticking his foot down his throat more and more. I got a call
>yesterday from a non-cycling friend who had seen the Playboy interview and
>his comment was that he never realized what a jerk Armstrong is. Priceless.
>



dumbass
 
D

David Ferguson

Guest
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:49:56 GMT, Eric Hill <[email protected]>
wrote:


>
>Maybe they're both pricks.
>
>-eric


If you want a "nice guy" go over to the losers lounge and hang out
with Jan.
 
R

Ron Ruff

Guest
B. Lafferty wrote:

>
> AFAIK, there are very few people other than Armstrong who speak ill of
> Lemond. He has a reputation as being a really nice guy.


So is it that "niceness" that prompted him to make accusations against
Armstrong with no evidence?

Looks like a clear case of envy to me. Lance trumped his
comeback-from-disaster story big time, and Lemond is certainly not the
"greatest American cyclist" anymore. He's worried about being
forgotten, and the only way he can stay "in there" is by trying to get
people to suspect Armstrong's legitimacy. It's pathetic.

I'm no great fan of Armstrong's personality, and I suspect he was/is
using banned substances... mostly because of all the evidence that it
is common... but I'm even less a fan of Lemond's attitude; even if he
was clean.
 
M

Mad Dog

Guest
Geraard Spergen says...

>Results 1 - 10 of about 1,300 for +lemond +"nice guy". (46 to 1: nice)


>Results 1 - 10 of about 48,100 for +armstrong +"nice guy". (~2 to 1: nice)


I conclude that nice guys win less Tours.

No wonder I never made it there...
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"Geraard Spergen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:[email protected]
>> > AFAIK, there are very few people other than Armstrong who speak ill of

>> Lemond. He has a reputation as being a really nice guy.
>>

>
> Oh, I've always wanted to do a Google hit statistic:
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 281 for +lemond +*****.
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 1,300 for +lemond +"nice guy". (46 to 1: nice)
>
>
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 27,400 for +armstrong +*****.
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 48,100 for +armstrong +"nice guy". (~2 to 1: nice)


Google results are meaningless in this regard. I was referring to people
who know him well personally.

FWIW, googling Armstrong Asshole comes up with 96,600; Lemond Asshole 886.
FWIW :)
 
B

B. Lafferty

Guest
"David Ferguson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:49:56 GMT, Eric Hill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Maybe they're both pricks.
>>
>>-eric

>
> If you want a "nice guy" go over to the losers lounge and hang out
> with Jan.


Every team should have a loser of his stature and record.
 
S

Stupid Newbie

Guest
David Ferguson <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> If you want a "nice guy" go over to the losers lounge and
> hang out with Jan.


LOL, I guess then to each his own. In 25 years:

a) Lance will have the showcase of stuff to remind him of
his 7 great TdF wins;

b) Jan will still have friends.

:)