Armstrong comeback!



jhuskey

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limerickman said:
Memory must be going - early 87 to late 87 was all that LeMond missed???

I can't recall LeMond cycling the Nissan - that doesn't mean that he didn't race it.


Gino Bartali won 1938 and then again in 1948 and you must consider World War II came between, still quite a span of time, however if Armstrong could win he would be the oldest beating Lambot by one year who was 36 when he won in 1922.
No, I am not that old. :D
 

Powerful Pete

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classic1 said:
I can't remember anyone having that length of time out of the sport and coming back to the same level, either through retirement then coming back or drug bans, Armstrongs return from cancer excluded.

A few I can remember were Roger de Vlaeminck, Gert Jan-Theunisse, Nikolas Axelsson, Roberto Heras, Tyler Hamilton, Botero. They were pretty much all rubbish when they came back. Didn't count Lemond or Pantani, they weren't out that long but still didn't reach their former levels.
Well, remember the WWII generation. Guys like Coppi and Bartali were successful riders before and after the war, so they were all out of action for 2-4 years on average. I realise it is prehistory, but you are still talking about someone like Bartali, although he was younger (his last Tour de France victory in 1948 was at age 34 or 35, if I recall correctly), ten years after his 1938 victory.
 

classic1

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limerickman said:
Memory must be going - early 87 to late 87 was all that LeMond missed???

I can't recall LeMond cycling the Nissan - that doesn't mean that he didn't race it.
Just double checked to see where he finished. Can't find it, but he did finish the Tour. Great race the Nissan, shame it folded. Kelly's TT in 85 was one of the all time great TT's IMO.
 

classic1

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Powerful Pete said:
Well, remember the WWII generation. Guys like Coppi and Bartali were successful riders before and after the war, so they were all out of action for 2-4 years on average. I realise it is prehistory, but you are still talking about someone like Bartali, although he was younger (his last Tour de France victory in 1948 was at age 34 or 35, if I recall correctly), ten years after his 1938 victory.
Coppi was in the army and a POW from 42-45 IIRC. I think Bartali was able to train throughout the war. But yes, the pair of them had what would have potentially been their best years taken away by the war.
 

jhuskey

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Powerful Pete said:
There ya go, jhuskey and I posting the same message at almost the same time... LOL.


Great minds and all that. Must be all the pasta. :D
 

Powerful Pete

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jhuskey said:
Great minds and all that. Must be all the pasta. :D
Sheesh. No pasta today. :( Looks like we will have a stormy weekend that might curtail my riding. Must watch my girlish figure, you realise.

I am no longer tough enough to consider a four hour ride in the rain. If it starts raining while I ride, ok, pazienza. But to go out in the rain for a 100km... no, no more. Too old for that. :eek:

That and any additional weight will make it impossible for me to climb hills. :mad:
 

jhuskey

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Powerful Pete said:
Sheesh. No pasta today. :( Looks like we will have a stormy weekend that might curtail my riding. Must watch my girlish figure, you realise.

I am no longer tough enough to consider a four hour ride in the rain. If it starts raining while I ride, ok, pazienza. But to go out in the rain for a 100km... no, no more. Too old for that. :eek:

That and any additional weight will make it impossible for me to climb hills. :mad:


I never was tough enough to ride 4 hours in the rain. On the other hand, are metric hours shorter? :D
 

limerickman

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classic1 said:
Coppi was in the army and a POW from 42-45 IIRC. I think Bartali was able to train throughout the war. But yes, the pair of them had what would have potentially been their best years taken away by the war.

Fair point.
Certainly Coppi missed out on a huge amount of potential wins during WW2 years.


I forgot to mention earlier Phillippe Thyss of Belgium: he won the 1913 TDF - fought in WW1.
In 1920 and 1921, he won the TDF in both years.
Seven year absence.
And he rode much tougher Tours De France than the current lot.
 

Powerful Pete

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jhuskey said:
I never was tough enough to ride 4 hours in the rain. On the other hand, are metric hours shorter? :D
Yes, they are shorter. But not by much. Riding in the rain metric hours are, unfortunately, far longer than non-metric hours. :D
 

ilpirata

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jhuskey said:
Gino Bartali won 1938 and then again in 1948 and you must consider World War II came between, still quite a span of time, however if Armstrong could win he would be the oldest beating Lambot by one year who was 36 when he won in 1922.
No, I am not that old. :D
In my mind, there is no doubt he can win at 37. He knows how to prepare the tour. I must admit I am surprised he is coming back. With all the problems cycling has with image as a result of so many doping positives, and so much suspiscion of himself having used epo from the retrotesting studies, and he is pushing his drive to live clean, live strong, and end cancer. It seems to me he is pushing the envelope a little too far, and he would have been better off staying retired. Because even the most loyal of fans, at some point will see the impossibility of him competing completely PED free. Like every kid at some time stops believing in Santa Claus. He obviously is very certain he can pass every control, including the off season ones.
 

ad9898

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Frigo's Luggage said:
Here is my prediction:

If Lance is even invited to the Tour he won't even crack the top ten. Probably won't even finish.

That was a joke yeh. he'll be close to the 7w/kg when he lines up, the thing you underestimate is he's been their, many times and knows what it takes to win. My prediction was top 5, minimum.
 

classic1

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limerickman said:
Fair point.
Certainly Coppi missed out on a huge amount of potential wins during WW2 years.


I forgot to mention earlier Phillippe Thyss of Belgium: he won the 1913 TDF - fought in WW1.
In 1920 and 1921, he won the TDF in both years.
Seven year absence.
And he rode much tougher Tours De France than the current lot.
A lot of the champions fought in the Great War and quite a number died..
 

patch70

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If Lance really does come back to the Tour, the worst thing for me will be having to listen to the commentary of Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen. They talked about Lance more than any other rider even in the last three Tours when he wasn't riding. How much will they go on about him next year if he is?
 

whiteboytrash

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patch70 said:
If Lance really does come back to the Tour, the worst thing for me will be having to listen to the commentary of Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen. They talked about Lance more than any other rider even in the last three Tours when he wasn't riding. How much will they go on about him next year if he is?

That is my problem with Armstrong and his comeback. He sucks the life out of cycling. Along with his cancer crusade he'll make everyone listen. Right you are Phil & Paul will **** on reading pre-prepared media releases about his comeback and how hard he has trained and how clean he is and how everyone loves him and how much he is doing for cancer and so on an so on.... before you know it no other cyclist can get amu inches in the newspapers. It has been refreshing to see most of the media is as cynical as we are about it all.

This time they all know what really happened and I think they won't write all the ******** again this time around. Armstrong thinks he can bully them into writing what he wants by not speaking to certain media outlets who don't portray him in a positive light but I don't think anyone cares this time around. I really wish he would go away.
 

Geoff Vadar

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whiteboytrash said:
That is my problem with Armstrong and his comeback. He sucks the life out of cycling. I really wish he would go away.
I dont have a problem with him coming back. I just wish someone from the peloton would stand up and fucking put him in his box. Is there no one? Is there no team? At least come out and say something in the press. Put the fucking texan showboat in his fucking box please. For the fantasy story of chirst on the bloody cross is there no one to put this showboat away?

At this point in time I am going to say good on Armstong. If he doesnt rate this current bunch of showponys in GT contention then fair enough. Its up to them to stand up and say 'Hey Lance **** off you greasy seppo ***'.

We need a pro tour rivalry IMO.
 

sopas

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Well, If Lance gets in the same shape as in his previous 7 Tour victories, he will win. No doubt about it. However, if he is at his 80-90%, then I think Contador can beat him.

Wait, but they will be on the same team!!! :eek: :eek: Haha, that would be interesting to see. Who is going to be the team leader???
 

ad9898

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sopas said:
Well, If Lance gets in the same shape as in his previous 7 Tour victories, he will win. No doubt about it. However, if he is at his 80-90%, then I think Contador can beat him.

Wait, but they will be on the same team!!! :eek: :eek: Haha, that would be interesting to see. Who is going to be the team leader???

Contador and Armstrong will be on the same team, Contador to go for a Giro, Veulta double next year and helping Armstrong in the tour, not quite official yet but watch this space
 

musette

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Yep, AC will be working for LA, as will Levi of course. :p ;) AC will be able to be the "back up leader" for the Tour, in case something goes wrong with the LA comeback. AC will go for the Giro/Vuelta double again. Levi will probably go for Dauphine Libere, some US races, and stage (probably ITT) wins in the Giro/Vuelta.
 

poulidor

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Contadope has already stated to spanish press that he will ride next TDF to win it. I don't see why he should be a gregario for an old man who has not proved that he can be a leader.
Everyone know that even JB.
In fact the leader will be the rider of the best doctor but have they the same?