Armstrong is no longer snob

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Laurent, Jul 25, 2003.

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  1. Laurent

    Laurent Guest

    2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price) for being snob with
    the international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to see the lemon
    on the basket:

    http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg

    and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.jpg

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-ARMSTRONG_1048

    it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
     
    Tags:


  2. Earle Self

    Earle Self Guest

    You sound about as real as a Cyclops...

    On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:39:39 +0200, "Laurent" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price) for being snob with
    >the international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to see the lemon
    >on the basket:
    >
    >http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg
    >
    >and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:
    >
    >http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.jpg
    >
    >http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-ARMSTRONG_1048
    >
    >
    > it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
     
  3. DiabloScott

    DiabloScott New Member

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    Coming from the French, I would think the Snob Award would be right up there with the Polka Dot Jersey in terms of prestige! (there's another one of those French words)

    Do you have awards for rudeness too? What a magnificently self-aggrandizing culture!
     
  4. Trg

    Trg Guest

    You think this might have something to do with the treatment HE received from the French press,
    rather than the other way around, huh? A couple of years ago, all the journaux in France wanted to
    talk about was allegations of doping (no proof, just sniping), not about the three weeks of amazing
    athletic performance he put in. When LA, wearer of the maillot jaune, and winner of a stage goes on
    VeloClub, and all Gerald Holtz wants to talk about is unsubstantiated charges of doping (funny, he
    doesn't act the same way with Virenque, who was actually caught doping, and said he'd do it again if
    he was sure not to get caught), it's not surprising that Armstrong is less than accomadation to the
    French press. It's not Armstrong, it's the French.

    Now, he's the "patron" and is (other than an occasional muckracking attempt in Le Monde or Libé),
    admitted by the French to be one of the all time greats, and admired (grudgingly by some, but
    admired nonetheless). When it comes to cycling and Armstrong, many French have been nasty and
    hypocritical. As that attitude changes, so does Armstrong's reaction.

    "Laurent" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    > 2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price) for being snob with the
    > international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to see the lemon on the
    basket:
    >
    > http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg
    >
    > and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:
    >
    >
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.jpg
    >
    >
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-ARMSTRONG_1048
    >
    >
    > it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
    >
    >

    ---
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  5. Laurent

    Laurent Guest

    the lemon price is decerned by the international reporters, not the french.

    the snobism has nothing to do with dope, Armstrong was already snob the first day he went in Europe.
    a lot of other racers before Armstrong has been questionned about drugs. Anquetil, Hinault, Delgado,
    Virenque, Jalabert, they were all loaded and a lot of racers have been more hurt by the press than
    Armstrong and that didn't make them snob.

    "trg" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    > You think this might have something to do with the treatment HE received from the French press,
    > rather than the other way around, huh? A couple of years ago, all the journaux in France wanted to
    > talk about was allegations of doping (no proof, just sniping), not about the three weeks of
    > amazing athletic performance he put in. When LA, wearer of the maillot jaune, and winner of a
    > stage goes on VeloClub, and all Gerald Holtz wants to talk
    about
    > is unsubstantiated charges of doping (funny, he doesn't act the same way with Virenque, who was
    > actually caught doping, and said he'd do it again
    if
    > he was sure not to get caught), it's not surprising that Armstrong is less than accomadation to
    > the French press. It's not Armstrong, it's the
    French.
    >
    > Now, he's the "patron" and is (other than an occasional muckracking
    attempt
    > in Le Monde or Libé), admitted by the French to be one of the all time greats, and admired
    > (grudgingly by some, but admired nonetheless). When it comes to cycling and Armstrong, many French
    > have been nasty and hypocritical. As that attitude changes, so does Armstrong's reaction.
    >
    >
    > "Laurent" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > 2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price)
    for
    > > being snob with the international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to see
    > > the lemon on the
    > basket:
    > >
    > > http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg
    > >
    > > and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:
    > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.jpg
    > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-ARMSTRONG_1048
    > >
    > >
    > > it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > ---
    > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
     
  6. "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > You think this might have something to do with the treatment HE received from the French press,
    > rather than the other way around, huh?

    It takes two to tango.
     
  7. Trg

    Trg Guest

    My point exactly. Why is it that Armstrong is seen as a snob and distant by the French press and
    public, but not in the States? Because in this dance, it's the French who are leading.

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > You think this might have something to do with the treatment HE received from the French press,
    > > rather than the other way around, huh?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > It takes two to tango.
    >
    >

    ---
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  8. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Earle Self <[email protected]> wrote:

    > You sound about as real as a Cyclops...

    Do you sound better when you write in French?
    >
    > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:39:39 +0200, "Laurent" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price) for being snob with the
    > >international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to see the lemon on the
    > >basket:
    > >
    > >http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg
    > >
    > >and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:
    > >
    >
    > >>http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.
    > >jpg
    > >
    >
    > >>http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-
    > >ARMSTRONG_1048
    > >
    > >
    > > it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
     
  9. Trg

    Trg Guest

    The drug issue was much less of an issue before l'affaire Festina. And there's a difference between
    being "questioned about drugs" when you've been kicked out of racing for it as in the case of
    Virenque, and being hounded about it to the exclusion of all else- like the fact you've just won a
    tough stage, as was the case of Armstrong for a while. And if you've seen this year's TdF coverage
    on France television, you'll notice that in all the time they've talked to and about Virenque,
    they've never once directly talked about Festina and him being suspended. The closest they came was
    when he won a stage and they asked him (and also his wife) if he ever imagined he'd have a day like
    this "back when the phone stopped ringing." Is this a "kinder gentler" Gerald Holtz?

    Armstrong has a much better relation with the press in the US. Are you suggesting that he's only a
    snob to the Europeans? And he was racing AND WINNING in Europe before his cancer or his first TdF
    victory. No one thought he was a snob then. The French were bitter about the loss of their heros at
    Festina, and they took it out on Armstrong and USPS, a logical choice, but un ugly and unbecoming
    act nonetheless.

    I've been at the final Stage in Paris every year since Indurain. When Armstrong won his first TdF
    (and second) there were many people next to me who were booing and whistling (French show of
    disapproval) each time Lance or the USPS team car came 'round. You don't do that just because
    someone (who doesn't speak the language) isn't available for the press as much as they'd like.

    It's just a case of their bitterness and cynicism getting the better them.

    "An American in cycling was comparable to a French baseball team in the World Series. I was a
    gate-crasher in a revered and time-honored sport, and I had no concept of its rules, written and
    unwritten, or its etiquette. Let's just say that my Texas manners didn't play well on the
    continent."
    - Lance Armstrong

    "Laurent" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    > the lemon price is decerned by the international reporters, not the
    french.
    >
    > the snobism has nothing to do with dope, Armstrong was already snob the first day he went in
    > Europe. a lot of other racers before Armstrong has been questionned about drugs. Anquetil,
    > Hinault, Delgado, Virenque, Jalabert, they were all loaded and a lot of racers have been more hurt
    > by the press than Armstrong and that didn't make them snob.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "trg" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > You think this might have something to do with the treatment HE received from the French press,
    > > rather than the other way around, huh? A couple
    of
    > > years ago, all the journaux in France wanted to talk about was
    allegations
    > > of doping (no proof, just sniping), not about the three weeks of amazing athletic performance he
    > > put in. When LA, wearer of the maillot jaune,
    and
    > > winner of a stage goes on VeloClub, and all Gerald Holtz wants to talk
    > about
    > > is unsubstantiated charges of doping (funny, he doesn't act the same way with Virenque, who was
    > > actually caught doping, and said he'd do it again
    > if
    > > he was sure not to get caught), it's not surprising that Armstrong is
    less
    > > than accomadation to the French press. It's not Armstrong, it's the
    > French.
    > >
    > > Now, he's the "patron" and is (other than an occasional muckracking
    > attempt
    > > in Le Monde or Libé), admitted by the French to be one of the all time greats, and admired
    > > (grudgingly by some, but admired nonetheless). When
    it
    > > comes to cycling and Armstrong, many French have been nasty and hypocritical. As that attitude
    > > changes, so does Armstrong's reaction.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Laurent" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > 2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price)
    > for
    > > > being snob with the international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to
    > > > see the lemon on the
    > > basket:
    > > >
    > > > http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg
    > > >
    > > > and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.jpg
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-ARMSTRONG_1048
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > > ---
    > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system
    > > (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
    > >
    > >
    >
    >

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  10. Well, as a saying in the run-up to the Gulf war went: The world is crazy. The best rapper in the
    world is white, the best golfer is black, Germany doesn't want to go to war and the French accuse
    other people of arrogance ... (knowing fully well, that the award came from the international press,
    but that the French press was even more outspoken about Lance's perceived attitude)

    Gerrit

    On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:08:26 +0200, "trg" > wrote:

    >My point exactly. Why is it that Armstrong is seen as a snob and distant by the French press and
    >public, but not in the States? Because in this dance, it's the French who are leading.
    >
    >"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> > You think this might have something to do with the treatment HE received from the French press,
    >> > rather than the other way around, huh?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It takes two to tango.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >---
    >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    >Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
     
  11. Trg

    Trg Guest

    What the f*!# does this mean?

    "Earle Self" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    > You sound about as real as a Cyclops...
    >

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
     
  12. "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Armstrong has a much better relation with the press in the US. Are you suggesting that he's only a
    > snob to the Europeans? And he was racing AND WINNING in Europe before his cancer or his first TdF
    > victory. No one
    thought
    > he was a snob then.

    <snip>

    What are you talking about?

    He had major personality conflicts with Laurent Jalabert and Moreno Argentin and his extended 800
    meter victory celebration at the 1993 World's was criticized by many.

    All pre-cancer.
     
  13. "Gerrit Stolte" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Well, as a saying in the run-up to the Gulf war went: The world is crazy. The best rapper in the
    > world is white, the best golfer is black, Germany doesn't want to go to war and the French accuse
    > other people of arrogance ...

    That was originated by Charles Barkley.
     
  14. Laurent

    Laurent Guest

    what you say is exacly the contrary of Armstrong's quote.

    "trg" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...

    >
    > "An American in cycling was comparable to a French baseball team in the World Series. I was a
    > gate-crasher in a revered and time-honored sport,
    and
    > I had no concept of its rules, written and unwritten, or its etiquette. Let's just say that my
    > Texas manners didn't play well on the continent."
    > - Lance Armstrong
     
  15. Trg

    Trg Guest

    Although I was more referring to his stage win in Limoges in 95 as being more comparable in setting
    to recent TdF sitings, even using your example of the Worlds, having personality conflicts with
    other riders or being seen as brash or arrogant is not the same thing as being a snob and refusing
    to talk to the press. The topic of this thread is that Armstrong is no longer a snob, not that he's
    not as arrogant. (BTW, he also made a victory celebration in Limoges, dedicating the victory to
    Casarelli who had been killed in a chute 2 days earlier).

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Armstrong has a much better relation with the press in the US. Are you suggesting that he's only
    > > a snob to the Europeans? And he was racing AND WINNING in Europe before his cancer or his first
    > > TdF victory. No one
    > thought
    > > he was a snob then.
    >
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    > What are you talking about?
    >
    > He had major personality conflicts with Laurent Jalabert and Moreno
    Argentin
    > and his extended 800 meter victory celebration at the 1993 World's was criticized by many.
    >
    > All pre-cancer.
    >
    >

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  16. Bob

    Bob Guest

    trg wrote:

    > The French were bitter about the loss of their heros at Festina, and they took it out on Armstrong
    > and USPS, a logical choice, but un ugly and unbecoming act nonetheless.

    this is not entirely true (imo). a fraction of the public certainly used the drug issue to vent its
    frustration at not having a real french contender for so long, but it also happened in a climate
    where the sport was perceived to be falling apart and all those suspected of being loaded were
    'flogged'. virenque never was a hero to many in the first place, and he eventually took a much more
    serious beating than lance in the press and public opinion (for obvious reasons).

    >
    > I've been at the final Stage in Paris every year since Indurain. When Armstrong won his first TdF
    > (and second) there were many people next to me who were booing and whistling (French show of
    > disapproval) each time Lance or the USPS team car came 'round.

    what a shame. do you know that anquetil was commonly booed for a few years of his carreer?
    interestingly, he was also perceived as being aloof and arrogant (of course, the fact that he nearly
    always beat "mister all-around good guy" poulidor should not be ignored). lemond, in turn, never had
    any kind of serious problem in this regard (on the contrary)

    >
    > It's just a case of their bitterness and cynicism getting the better them.

    it's a shame that some morons can't appreciate a great champ and/or excuse his shortcoming.
     
  17. Earle Self

    Earle Self Guest

    No I don't, because I don't want to embarass myself. I write only in English and German, so I don't
    sound ridiculous. Help is available for those who wish to make themselves understood... I lean on my
    wife for help in French, since she used to live there...

    On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:36:07 GMT, warren <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Earle Self <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> You sound about as real as a Cyclops...
    >
    >Do you sound better when you write in French?
    >>
    >> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:39:39 +0200, "Laurent" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >2 year ago he was accustomed to receive the prix citron (lemon price) for being snob with the
    >> >international reporters. we can see on this picture that he was angry to see the lemon on the
    >> >basket:
    >> >
    >> >http://www.lequipe.fr/Xml/Cyclisme/Dossiers/Media/2807_citron_afp.jpg
    >> >
    >> >and now he got the prix orange and he is all smile:
    >> >
    >>
    >> >>http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/tour03/stage18/ARMSTRONGARANCIE_0028.
    >> >jpg
    >> >
    >>
    >> >>http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour.php?id=photos/2003/tour03/stage18/FOTOGRAFI-
    >> >ARMSTRONG_1048
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > it's a good thing he stoped to be snob, because cyclism is not a golf tournament
    >
     
  18. Earle Self

    Earle Self Guest

    "cyclism is not a golf" Sorry if you can't see it...

    On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:42:41 +0200, "trg" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >What the f*!# does this mean?
    >
    >"Earle Self" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> You sound about as real as a Cyclops...
    >>
    >
    >
    >---
    >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    >Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
     
  19. Trg

    Trg Guest

    Oh, I see cyclism=> cyclops. I've been living in France for the last 8 years. I speak and read (and
    especially write) fluent Franglish. I didn't even miss a beat when I read it. Did you understand his
    meaning, though?

    "Earle Self" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    news:[email protected]...
    > "cyclism is not a golf" Sorry if you can't see it...
    >
    > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:42:41 +0200, "trg" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >What the f*!# does this mean?
    > >
    > >"Earle Self" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> You sound about as real as a Cyclops...
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >---
    > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > >Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
    > >
    >

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  20. Earle Self

    Earle Self Guest

    Oh yes, I understood his mangled meaning perfectly well. I'm also a scarred veteran of having been
    told that I had to be able to ask in "good French" to release my auto from the hotel garage in order
    to make a flight... After all, they "didn't speak English." "Non parl Anglais, non parl Allemagne."
    To have one come on an English-speaking board and refer to LA as a snob set me off. They are the
    worst snobs on Earth, both linguistic and otherwise. Their name-calling someone else a "snob" of any
    sort is low humor, at best. To get his car out of my garage, he'll have to do better than "Cyclism."
    You can like it or not...

    On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:13:31 +0200, "trg" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Oh, I see cyclism=> cyclops. I've been living in France for the last 8 years. I speak and read (and
    >especially write) fluent Franglish. I didn't even miss a beat when I read it. Did you understand
    >his meaning, though?
    >
    >"Earle Self" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> "cyclism is not a golf" Sorry if you can't see it...
    >>
    >> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:42:41 +0200, "trg" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >What the f*!# does this mean?
    >> >
    >> >"Earle Self" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de
    >> >news:[email protected]...
    >> >> You sound about as real as a Cyclops...
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >---
    >> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system
    >> >(http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 14/07/2003
    >> >
    >>
    >
    >
    >---
    >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    >Version: 6.0.501 / Virus Database: 299 - Release Date: 15/07/2003
     
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