Armstrong moderated Presidential campaign forum



helmutRoole2 said:
Dude, it's just so obvious you grew up rich.

Do you believe in the war we're waging in Iraq?
I wouldn't say I grew up rich. I did go to private school which was nice but the public school was an option and that was fine. There are people much more successful than me who grew up in tiny houses and went to public schools and paid their way through college. I am a hard core right winger not so much for being rich reasons but because all the left does is attack America for everything. I can't believe I hear what I hear on the nightly news. They are the enemy within and I can't stand it.

I think the War in Iraq is dumb as hell but for reasons others don't probably think. These people don't want freedom. I have no idea what we are doing there. I don't want to see one more of our boys lost to try and give freedom to these 7th century sub humans who cut people's throats with rusty knives.
 
The world is becoming more and more integrated that being right wing and patriotic is losing it's worth. Internal criticism is necessary for a country to be run in a better manner. You should see how the US looks from Europe.
 
whiteboytrash said:
You can only hope they don't vote.

But seriously, couldn't you film a similar clip on the streets of London? America hasn't cornered the market on idiots... have we?

Oh, and thoughtforfood, don't move to Canada. It's too ****ing cold up there. No ****. I lived in Wilmington, NC and then in Seattle. You'll never make it.

Do what I'm getting ready to do. Leave the United States and live in the Conch Republic.
 
No_Positives said:
You are so screwed up I am starting to think you are your avatar. Anyone living in the US who does not work and does not have healthcare and does not have an education and does not have food and does not have social services has no one to blame but themselves. Heck we (me sitting here working my nuts off everyday) subsidize all of this for 20 million non-tax paying illegal aliens.

3 simple rules and everyone can live perfectly fine.
1. Obey the law
2. Pay taxes
3. Get educated
I couldn't care less what you think.

As to the thoughtful comments from others, I understand the problems inherent with anything the government puts its hands into. But face the facts, it also allows incredilbe coruption when it takes its hands out of things too. Just look at deregulation of the banking industry to see the beginnings of our current mortgage debacle.

That combined with the FACT that the largest puppies suckling from the governments teetes are corportions, and you can take your "handout" arguments and walk away knowing you have been at best, dishonest.

Doctors in socialized healthcare are not forced into underclass status economically There is no factual basis for believeng otherwise; however, they will find that they are not paid as much as before. When I visited the ER with a broken hand sustained from falling from my bike, and a Dr. walked in, slaped an x-ray on a screen, showed me that my hand was broker, (I was really clear on that point well before she walked in the room), wrote something down, walked out of the room, and then sent me a bill for just that portion of the proceedings that was over $400, then I say to Dr.'s, tough ****, you are over paid.

Let me also state emphatically that I do not believe that the government is the solution to every problem, especially when they get into nation building. I also know the dramatic effects that too much social welfare has on producing productive people. I also BELIEVE that some things are morally de riguer. One of those is that anyone living in a society that has amassed enough wealth to provide healthcare to all, has that obligation.

My basis for that is my faith. What your criteria for your beliefs are, are your business. Me, I can whip out a mean biblical justification if you want one.
 
thoughtforfood said:
I have a hard time not moving to Canada.
That's what all of you liberals said in 2004 and not one went to Canada when you lost the election.

Here's what I want you to do everyday when you are living in Canada.

Say every Morning
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Sing every Evening
God bless America,
Land that I love,
Stand beside her and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above;
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans white with foam,
God bless America,
My home, sweet home.
God bless America,
My home, sweet home.
 
No_Positives said:
That's what all of you liberals said in 2004 and not one went to Canada when you lost the election.

Here's what I want you to do everyday when you are living in Canada.

Say every Morning
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Sing every Evening
God bless America,
Land that I love,
Stand beside her and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above;
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans white with foam,
God bless America,
My home, sweet home.
God bless America,
My home, sweet home.
Did somebody just fart......I swear I just heard a fart.
 
No_Positives said:
These people don't want freedom. I have no idea what we are doing there. I don't want to see one more of our boys lost to try and give freedom to these 7th century sub humans who cut people's throats with rusty knives.
What is it with right wingers and racism? Is it a membership requirement or something? Since it's no longer viable in modern America to hate the jews or blacks, what are you bigots going to do when it's no longer okay to hate the arabs? Which group is next on the hate list? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
thoughtforfood said:
Did somebody just fart......I swear I just heard a fart.
A total misconception about the poor is that they do not have healthcare. They have healthcare. They have better healthcare then 50% of the working people. I work with the poor on a frequant basis. Many are poor because they have no motivation to work. The entitlement in this country is getting out of hand.... It is breeding people that have generations of entitlement. Entitlement robs a country.
I also understand that many are poor because they have not had anything handed to them too.
It's interesting...... I ran a bar for many years where the college liberal professor types hung out.......... They spoke of liberal causes........ I studied this......Almost all of them came from rich families. And yet when a person suggested to them that they were overpaid, they could not see your point.
Most Americans who are paid well in this country have put forth the effort to make the situation that way. Governement healthcare punishes the motivated. A country needs motivated people. Big government drains society.
 
Bro Deal said:
What is it with right wingers and racism? Is it a membership requirement or something? Since it's no longer viable in modern America to hate the jews or blacks, what are you bigots going to do when it's no longer okay to hate the arabs? Which group is next on the hate list? Inquiring minds want to know.
They are racist in an effort to cover their deep seated self hatred at the pricks they have allowed themselves to become.
 
wolfix said:
A total misconception about the poor is that they do not have healthcare. They have healthcare. They have better healthcare then 50% of the working people. I work with the poor on a frequant basis. Many are poor because they have no motivation to work. The entitlement in this country is getting out of hand.... It is breeding people that have generations of entitlement. Entitlement robs a country.
I also understand that many are poor because they have not had anything handed to them too.
It's interesting...... I ran a bar for many years where the college liberal professor types hung out.......... They spoke of liberal causes........ I studied this......Almost all of them came from rich families. And yet when a person suggested to them that they were overpaid, they could not see your point.
Most Americans who are paid well in this country have put forth the effort to make the situation that way. Governement healthcare punishes the motivated. A country needs motivated people. Big government drains society.
You obviouly know nothing about the poor and their healthcare.

Also, if you believe that the upper 1% of wealthy people (who have most of the world's wealth) "earned" that wealth with work, then you also know nothing about the wealthy.

Thirdly, I do not believe it is the government's job to provide everything a person desires. Many people who consier themselves poor in our country are in the upper 10% of people on earth.

Lastly, the basis for my belief in universal healthcare is based on a moral absolute, not an economic one. We therefore approach the issue from different perspectives and will have a very hard time convincing the other of anything.
 
And to answer the question: Yes, I do believe that people who have done nothing to "deserve" help, still deserve help. I don't care if that person resides on death row.
 
wolfix said:
A total misconception about the poor is that they do not have healthcare. They have healthcare. They have better healthcare then 50% of the working people.
There is a ringing endorsement of the current system if I ever heard one. :p

Sorry, dude, but you are going to lose this one. It was one thing when the middle class had relatively stable jobs. They could be happy with their own lot and ignore that of the poor. With the rise of globalation and the loss of job security, large numbers of people find themselves laid off and unable to afford healthcare. It has opened the eyes of the middle class to how precarious their position is. The next recession, which is just around the corner due to the housing collapse, will really set the ball rolling. I think it is only a matter of time before large business, looking for cost reduction, gets on board.

The current system is not a free market. It is flat out corrupt.
 
You obviouly know nothing about the poor and their healthcare.
Obviously, I do know a lot about it. I worked with Catholic Charities for over 15 years dealing with it 10 hours a week........On my own time.
I also know what the average American deals with because I have been self employed for over 37 years. That puts me right in the middle of it.

Also, if you believe that the upper 1% of wealthy people (who have most of the world's wealth) "earned" that wealth with work, then you also know nothing about the wealthy.
I do understand what the top 10% has done to earn the wealth. My family fits in that area ........ And I was raised around some very wealthy individuals. Most of them were self starters. I also know that there are trust fund babies too......

Thirdly, I do not believe it is the government's job to provide everything a person desires. Many people who consier themselves poor in our country are in the upper 10% of people on earth.
I agree......

Lastly, the basis for my belief in universal healthcare is based on a moral absolute, not an economic one. We therefore approach the issue from different perspectives and will have a very hard time convincing the other of anything.
[/QUOTE] The problem with moral absolute is in reality it is only a chapter in a text book followed by a quiz and then a test given by a philosophy instructor in Philosophy 101. And yes, it does impresss the homely undergrad who sits around in a coffee shop thinking she discovered the meaning of life.
However, when a person joins the real world and comes off the porch to play with the big boys, it is the economic issues that are the real deal. And always has been except on Star Trek, the Cosby Show and Gilligan's Island.
I do not want to live in a country that punishes the motivated.
 
wolfix said:
A total misconception about the poor is that they do not have healthcare. They have healthcare. They have better healthcare then 50% of the working people. I work with the poor on a frequant basis. Many are poor because they have no motivation to work. The entitlement in this country is getting out of hand.... It is breeding people that have generations of entitlement. Entitlement robs a country.
I also understand that many are poor because they have not had anything handed to them too.
It's interesting...... I ran a bar for many years where the college liberal professor types hung out.......... They spoke of liberal causes........ I studied this......Almost all of them came from rich families. And yet when a person suggested to them that they were overpaid, they could not see your point.
Most Americans who are paid well in this country have put forth the effort to make the situation that way. Governement healthcare punishes the motivated. A country needs motivated people. Big government drains society.
Wolfix in '08!! Let's make it happen.
 
No_Positives said:
I wouldn't say I grew up rich. I did go to private school which was nice but the public school was an option and that was fine. There are people much more successful than me who grew up in tiny houses and went to public schools and paid their way through college. I am a hard core right winger not so much for being rich reasons but because all the left does is attack America for everything. I can't believe I hear what I hear on the nightly news. They are the enemy within and I can't stand it.

I think the War in Iraq is dumb as hell but for reasons others don't probably think. These people don't want freedom. I have no idea what we are doing there. I don't want to see one more of our boys lost to try and give freedom to these 7th century sub humans who cut people's throats with rusty knives.
As an independent conservative I find comments like yours quite incendiary which is then used as fuel to the fire to dismiss any thoughful debate coming from the right. acutally, I have to run, will address this and other comments later... to be continued...
 
Bro Deal said:
What is it with right wingers and racism? Is it a membership requirement or something? Since it's no longer viable in modern America to hate the jews or blacks, what are you bigots going to do when it's no longer okay to hate the arabs? Which group is next on the hate list? Inquiring minds want to know.
The middle east, by and large, is culturally retarded. Blacks under apartheid had more rights than women in most Muslim countries. Oil has subsidized this way of life. And yet, some of these places are incredibly poor, the slums of the world, completely lawless. Democracy? Forget it. There are some places where government of any sort can't get a foothold unless it's ruthless. Sometimes the only way to govern is to trot people out of their homes, line them up against a wall and shoot them.

Now, I can barely believe I wrote that last line, but I have seen these places. I have walked through them, albeit armed to teeth, and I know these ****ed up scenarios exist. But I don't believe they have to. I'd like to believe that the best thinkers in the western world can figure these things out, but it's going to take many more 9/11s and a couple environmental 9/11s before any of that happens. It's a shame, but my belief is, humans will have to be faced with their own extinction before we act on issues like this.

Healthcare and other social welfare issues breakdown like this. You can pay up front and take care of the helpless and those who don't want to work, or you can build prisons and lock them up after they rape, steal or fly jetliners into your downtown. Seems easier to address the problem before it starts. Doesn't mean you endorse laziness or backwards thinking. Just means you're being a realist.

We're spending billions on a war in Iraq. We went in and wrecked the place. From what I'm hearing, Iraq, with a few exceptions in the north, is a giant Mogadishu. We should have never went in, but pulling troops out now is immoral. Democracy was unrealistic. Iraq will be partitioned and, in place of Saddam Hussein, there will be a half dozen Saddam Husseins. Not the shining beacon of anything that GW envisioned but at least it's under control enough for America to address its own issues, like immigration, healthcare, rebuilding New Orleans, global warming, our dependancy on oil foreign or domestic, and terrorism.

I heard on NPR this morning that last month in New Orleans there were something like 52 murders and three arrests. As an American, I find that to be embarrassing.

I don't know. What will it take? Right wing/left wing extremism is nothing more than emotionally based ********. It's what politicians and pundits use to make a living. Anyone taking stock in Air America or Rush Limbaugh has turned their brains off. If it's not emotionally based, people want nothing to do with it. These issues are complex, but they are solvable. They pale in comparison to some of the great physics and medical discoveries solved in our time. Pale in comparison.

I'm sure everything will work itself out. I'm going lobster diving in the Keys this weekend. Last week I got six keepers and speared two black groupers. One 20lbs, the other about 15. Free diving from a kayak. Quite a day. My wife can hold her breath for 2 1/2 minutes. I hope our grandchildren get to experience the Keys. You know, they have these endangered deer down there that grow no bigger than a greyhound. In fact, they look like dogs when you see them from afar. These little deer have stymied big development on the two biggest islands in the Keys because of their endangered status. Two big islands, perfect weather, crystal clear water, sea trout, cobia, king mackerel, stone crab, lobster (!)... perfect for hi-rise development, but of the almost 200 homes there, none are more than three stories because of a couple hundred deer, some smaller than a greyhound.

Now that's progress.
 
A very solid post. Not great, but very good. Started off strong, got weak by the fact you listen to NPR, but finished strong.

helmutRoole2 said:
The middle east, by and large, is culturally retarded.
Agreed. Name one thing of any significance (a cure for a disease, an invention, a nice sports car, anything.) that has come from that part of the world ever.

helmutRoole2 said:
Now, I can barely believe I wrote that last line
That's what everyone says when they write or say something they really believe in.

helmutRoole2 said:
You can pay up front and take care of the helpless and those who don't want to work
Umm no thanks.

helmutRoole2 said:
I heard on NPR this morning .
Say it ain't so.

helmutRoole2 said:
that last month in New Orleans there were something like 52 murders and three arrests. As an American, I find that to be embarrassing.
Let me guess...It's the police's fault from not patrolling enough.
 
thoughtforfood said:
Doctors in socialized healthcare are not forced into underclass status economically There is no factual basis for believing otherwise; however, they will find that they are not paid as much as before. When I visited the ER with a broken hand sustained from falling from my bike, and a Dr. walked in, slaped an x-ray on a screen, showed me that my hand was broker, (I was really clear on that point well before she walked in the room), wrote something down, walked out of the room, and then sent me a bill for just that portion of the proceedings that was over $400, then I say to Dr.'s, tough ****, you are over paid.
ThoughtFF, I've got a direct comparison for you. If nothing else, in order to come back with an ignorant sneer at social medicine, Saluki will be forced to momentarily stop riding his Lance dolly.
I had to go back to the NHS this morning for my own smashed up hand. A week ago in the ER I had multiple X rays, an anaesthetic and a dislocation put
back. All dealt with fairly promptly and very competently. Today, I saw an experienced Consultant who examined me at length. I had my injuries re-dressed and I was provided with sufficient replacements. I was also given an appointment to see a plastic surgeon who will carry out reconstruction. Total time was just over an hour and it cost nothing. Ours is far from being a perfect system and it has it's gross inefficiencies. Nevertheless, it's there for everyone who needs it and nobody has to worry about the financial implications. If I'm not satisfied, I'm perfectly at liberty to make my own private arrangements. It generally make things quicker for elective surgery, but essentially you will be dealt with by the same doctors.
Saluki might rant about these crappy, social doctors who, naturally, lack the balanced cerebral processes that he demonstrates so vividly on this forum.
Nevertheless, the next time he gets friction burns on his anus from over- stimulating that orifice with his collection of yellow jerseys, I'll warrant that a trip to my free local A&E would offer far better value than the alternative that TFF has described.
 

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