Armstrong moderated Presidential campaign forum
- Thread starter wolfix
- Start date
nns1400 said:Well, he said somewhere that he could see a private dentist in a few days or wait 18 months for an NHS dentist. Maybe someone bumped a really old thread or something.
Or maybe you're wrong?
Yes I'm sure that queuing outside a dentist for hours just to attempt to register with them is lying.
BTW, I was referring to ambulance chasing John Edwards because of statements HE MADE about stem-cell research and he said something like if he and Kerry were elected, people WOULD get out of their wheelchairs and walk again. Too much time in the courtroom, too many contributions from trial lawyers, and if you think someone like him with that kind of support would IMPROVE the healthcare sitch then you are crazy. That is not debased, that is true.thoughtforfood said:
Please don't take this quipish at all, but I know it is more expensive for someone without healthcare because the bill for any given medical procedure will far outweigh any tax levied against them.nns1400 said:
For those with healthcare, and lets say a $500 deductable, that too is an easy calculation because per percentage of that person's tax bill, that is a fairly sizable chunk, and if you divide their tax into the amount that goes to any given program, it is a tiny percentage for each given government program.
I also think that in the US, when we say that government is inept at _________, sometimes we are right, and sometimes we are not. Government does many things well, and many things not so well. And we are talking about a big program, which seems to be the most difficult for government to run efficiently. Many times the inefficiency is due to corruption, etc, which is also a part of private enterprise.
Please do not misread what I am saying. I believe that the welfare programs enacted in the 60's were one of the biggest mistakes ever made by our government. I am not a fan of the idea that government should engineer a great society. I simply believe that some things are worth allowing our government to provide to more people than a free market will bear.
I also believe that something like socialized medicine is a warranted counterbalance to the welfare provided to corporations. Corporations have more power and influence than the poor, and in the real world, that is only logical and necessary. However, our country WAS founded with protections for the minority and powerless in mind, and sometimes, government needs to provide to those without great influence because of that moral basis inherent in the fouding of our country. It is an American value, contrary to those who claim otherwise.
It is hard to believe that it could cost more.nns1400 said:
Here is the percent of GDP spent on healthcare for various countries:
The numbers are a little different than what I put down from memory in my post above, but the U.S. is spending between 50% and 100% more on healthcare, and for that money we get much worse results. The numbers don't lie. The current system is a failure which serves to enrich those in the healthcare industry while providing shoddier care than most industrial countries.
I simply don't have faith in free markets like I used to. I am all for them when they work, but most laissez faire capitalists treat free markets as a religion. They don't believe in market failures or externalities. Those are heresies that cannot exist. Meanwhile in the real world, market failures are all around us. The current and biggest one is the corruption that has gone on in the housing market.
I think that it is very common for the short term interests of most parties in a market to act as an incentive to do the wrong thing. As long as most parties get to wet their beak then everyone is happy until the whole corrupt structure tumbles down. If a free market does not work then it should be the job of the government to step in and either fix the system or provide the service itself. I think the current healthcare system falls into that category.
Aside from the economic issues, I also lean toward TFF's view that certain services should be provided in a civilized society. It improves society as a whole.
Incredibly well written and thoughtful. You clearly illustrate what I took 3000 more words to write, and lets not even get into the bandwidth I chewed up.Bro Deal said:It is hard to believe that it could cost more.
Here is the percent of GDP spent on healthcare for various countries:
The numbers are a little different than what I put down from memory in my post above, but the U.S. is spending between 50% and 100% more on healthcare, and for that money we get much worse results. The numbers don't lie. The current system is a failure which serves to enrich those in the healthcare industry while providing shoddier care than most industrial countries.
I simply don't have faith in free markets like I used to. I am all for them when they work, but most laissez faire capitalists treat free markets as a religion. They don't believe in market failures or externalities. Those are heresies that cannot exist. Meanwhile in the real world, market failures are all around us. The current and biggest one is the corruption that has gone on in the housing market.
I think that it is very common for the short term interests of most parties in a market to act as an incentive to do the wrong thing. As long as most parties get to wet their beak then everyone is happy until the whole corrupt structure tumbles down. If a free market does not work then it should be the job of the government to step in and either fix the system or provide the service itself. I think the current healthcare system falls into that category.
Aside from the economic issues, I also lean toward TFF's view that certain services should be provided in a civilized society. It improves society as a whole.
Maintain infrastructure. Even with a bridge colapse, we live in an incredibly well physically maintained country.nns1400 said:
Regulate toys brought into our country. Think of the countries where those toys are still being shipped and played with by children.nns1400 said:
No, they suck at that, too. We have massive bridge and highway reconstruction going on where I live, which everyone was dreading like the plague. But they contracted it out to the right company and it is going fast, smoothly, and on schedule. Send the highway department and you're looking at cones and barrels for eternity. With mysterious signs claiming that somewhere, men are at work.thoughtforfood said:
Sweetie, infrastructure breaks down, it is inherent in any physical being or structure. And even when private industry supplies the improvement or maintenance, it is government regulated..........for good reason. Without regulaion, businesses would skimp for bottom line profit even more than they do, and we would be left with even more catastropies.nns1400 said:
I don't disagree with that, and thanks to a conservative tract taken by our government since Ronald <spit> Reagan, we have he and others to thank for that.nns1400 said:
Then again, supporting a global economy will only bnefit in the long run because the more consumers we create, the more things we can produce for them to buy. Manufacturing jobs will come back as our standard of living drops and people are willing to be paid wages made necessary for profit margins. Be careful what you ask for.thoughtforfood said:
Similar threads
