Armstrong used epo in Le Tour de France 1999

[bobke]

So on who's side are u.......look about the test thing......are you also saying Hamilton isn't guilty! WAKE UP......Renno Roelandt of WADA has said on sporza that LA is positive.......period!

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic.
I don't know who Renno Roelandt is.
I dont read sporza.
I dont care who they are. Until all the evidence is in, no one should be saying Lance is guilty, least of all a paid official of the WADA, if that's who he is.

My gut instinct tells me Tyler is innocent, but I dont know. In Lance's case, if he used EPO in 1999, how come he gets better year after year? His urine and the whole Postal teams urines from 2000 were retroactively tested in the year 2001 by the French judiciary. Does no one recall this? In a year no one expected that their urines would ever be tested retro.

The French are freekin losers and can't stand it.
Does anyone else think the Tour ie ASO was ****** that Lance spoke about cycnincs and hence doping from his podium speech this year. Isnt Lance suing a former journalist from L'Equipe, Pierre Ballester. Isnt L'Equipe owned or a sisted organisation as ASO which runs the Tour. If these guys ere so smart, why didnt they do this while Lance was competing????
And BTW, who ordered the documents leaked or whatever?

 

[bobke]

Two things:

1) Mjte- what do the riders (and others with other teams) have to lose now that Lance is retired? Is he some Mafia Don?

2) Where are the assurances that the chain of custody was not violated in all of this time?

No assurances at all about chain of custody, which is why the lab directors didnt make reports when they ran the samples last year. Oh yeah, the samples are always run anonymously (except if you are Tyler Hamilton). So someone "let" L'Equipe have the original lab control sheets with the numbers on it....but who in the lab can guarantee that those samples were Lance's or werent doctored in some way?

 

[Climbontario]

Why is it so hard to believe that a man can beat cancer, win 7 TDF and not be clean? The guy has never tested positive. Ever! It's funny ya know.... the rest of the world who just watches the tour and are not a part of the sport don't question it.... they just say wow that guy is amazing... a real inspiration. How come such a large portion of the cycling community wishes to dammage the face of the sport?? Is it because they have no faith that all goals are achievable? I'm willing to bet that the same people who don't believe that Lance has always been clean also fail to realize thier own potential.. The word CAN'T is maybe the second most powerfull word there is...... Thankfully for Lance there is one more powerfull word, and that is CAN.... all Lance has ever said to himself is I CAN I CAN I CAN....... powerfull thinking will take your body to limits that drugs will not.

 

[homeycheese]

Why is it so hard to believe that a man can beat cancer, win 7 TDF and not be clean? The guy has never tested positive. Ever! It's funny ya know.... the rest of the world who just watches the tour and are not a part of the sport don't question it.... they just say wow that guy is amazing... a real inspiration. How come such a large portion of the cycling community wishes to dammage the face of the sport?? Is it because they have no faith that all goals are achievable? I'm willing to bet that the same people who don't believe that Lance has always been clean also fail to realize thier own potential.. The word CAN'T is maybe the second most powerfull word there is...... Thankfully for Lance there is one more powerfull word, and that is CAN.... all Lance has ever said to himself is I CAN I CAN I CAN....... powerfull thinking will take your body to limits that drugs will not.

Thank you

 

[Roadrash Dunc]

I happen to be a historian and know how to deal with documents, but this document shown seems to be an original just because Armstrong is known to sue people , that´s what the L´Equipe people know as well as Italian TV. If this was not an authentic document they would not produce it. So considering the circumstances I firmly believe that the doping sample bearing the number displayed is Armstrong´s.

You claim to be a historian yet you seem to be unaware that history repeats itself : newsflash : newspapers cant help themselves from overstepping the mark and sensationalising stuff , it often leads them having to step down or getting their asses sued to kingdom come.
Do you need me to tell you how many newspapers , gossip rags and other assorted scumbag publications have been succesfully sued in the last couple of years? Its more than zero.
So claiming Equipe would not publish something fraudulent is hilarious.Im not saying this is a fake , but just dont take it for granted that its genuine.
We are talking about lowlifes here : jounralists.And ones with an axe to grind.The worst kind.

 

[MJtje]

Oke fine.......lets all wait.........but why the hell debate then??

I can read sporza and what that guy (renno roelandt, WADA) said there in an interview was that the test seemed good and that there is no reason to believe he's not positive......

He said he has seen the tabels and the figures and that the labpeople have used three methods and all supported each other in the direction of a positive...

But maybe we should wait for a reaction of WADA........

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic.
I don't know who Renno Roelandt is.
I dont read sporza.
I dont care who they are. Until all the evidence is in, no one should be saying Lance is guilty, least of all a paid official of the WADA, if that's who he is.

My gut instinct tells me Tyler is innocent, but I dont know. In Lance's case, if he used EPO in 1999, how come he gets better year after year? His urine and the whole Postal teams urines from 2000 were retroactively tested in the year 2001 by the French judiciary. Does no one recall this? In a year no one expected that their urines would ever be tested retro.

The French are freekin losers and can't stand it.
Does anyone else think the Tour ie ASO was ****** that Lance spoke about cycnincs and hence doping from his podium speech this year. Isnt Lance suing a former journalist from L'Equipe, Pierre Ballester. Isnt L'Equipe owned or a sisted organisation as ASO which runs the Tour. If these guys ere so smart, why didnt they do this while Lance was competing????
And BTW, who ordered the documents leaked or whatever?

 

[Rudy]

Man, moments like these is when I feel like going out for a nice long ride with that Nikie song in my head.

 

[bobke]

You claim to be a historian yet you seem to be unaware that history repeats itself : newsflash : newspapers cant help themselves from overstepping the mark and sensationalising stuff , it often leads them having to step down or getting their asses sued to kingdom come.
Do you need me to tell you how many newspapers , gossip rags and other assorted scumbag publications have been succesfully sued in the last couple of years? Its more than zero.
So claiming Equipe would not publish something fraudulent is hilarious.Im not saying this is a fake , but just dont take it for granted that its genuine.
We are talking about lowlifes here : jounralists.And ones with an axe to grind.The worst kind.

Right on RRD!

 

[slickdemo]

OK, so in 1999, before there was a test for EPO, when all a rider had to do to "hide" EPO use was keep the hematocrit below 50, there were only 12 positives from all the **** tests done at the Tour that year??? I think that number is unrealistically low, and frankly that makes me question the validity/accuracy of those tests.

 

[JohnO]

No assurances at all about chain of custody, which is why the lab directors didnt make reports when they ran the samples last year. Oh yeah, the samples are always run anonymously (except if you are Tyler Hamilton). So someone "let" L'Equipe have the original lab control sheets with the numbers on it....but who in the lab can guarantee that those samples were Lance's or werent doctored in some way?

No one can guarantee anything. The sheets could just as easily have been made up - they sell a lot of newspapers either way. L'Equipe may be gambling that Lance won't sue because he's retired and just doesn't want to reopen the subject.

Then again, L'Equipe made such a fuss out of Virenque's KOM record. So it's not like they haven't turned a blind eye to doping, when it serves their purposes...

Doesn't speak volumes for journalistic ethics, does it?

 

[MJtje]

LOL, ALLLLLL those riders.......so how many riders do you think got tested?

OK, so in 1999, before there was a test for EPO, when all a rider had to do to "hide" EPO use was keep the hematocrit below 50, there were only 12 positives from all the **** tests done at the Tour that year??? I think that number is unrealistically low, and frankly that makes me question the validity/accuracy of those tests.

 

[slickdemo]

LOL, ALLLLLL those riders.......so how many riders do you think got tested?

Pre-race medical checkups for 180 riders, so 180 samples there, plus 21 stage with the winner tested every day, so another 21, then however many they did on random riders every day, maybe 5, so that's about another 100.

So, LOL butt-munch, more than enough samples to come up with more than 12 positives.

 

[davidbod]

When the Scientists start debating it you know there is something up. It amazes me how irresponsible some journalists and their rags can be when playing with the reputations of others. Read on.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8746.0.html

 

[Roadrash Dunc]

When the Scientists start debating it you know there is something up. It amazes me how irresponsible some journalists and their rags can be when playing with the reputations of others. Read on.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8746.0.html

Interesting article that raises some very important points.
The French authorities , WADA and L'Equipe all need to respond or at least clarify their position.
morally and ethically here its they , rather than Lance , that are at fault.

 

[bobke]

When the Scientists start debating it you know there is something up. It amazes me how irresponsible some journalists and their rags can be when playing with the reputations of others. Read on.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8746.0.html

Right on!

Very similar to Tyler's case in that regard, no??

 

[Felix_in_Beijin]

Agree to your point that it is very strange, that the doping institute in France says that the samples cannot be confirmed. in my opinion they should be tested by at least one other institute and i can't figure out why this should not be possible (didn't they freeze them again after their test in 2004?)

Don't agree that this is kind of a French plot. If it really happens to be the truth, it should be reported and made public. Also don't believe that they cheated with the numbers of the samples. can't imagine a serious scientist (and let's take that we have serious scientists at the national doping labs and agencies) doing that.

felix

Ummmm... a lot of the reports left out this teeny eensy weensy detail:

The lab absolutely cannot confirm that the samples were Lance's according to the lab director.

So like the pics L'Equipe has of the numbers on the urine samples could have been doctored or the samples themselves had the numbers changed etc etc. Same ****, different day.
Why dont they just stop?????????????

For Pete's sake, the lab said that all tests were anonymous and THATS WHY THEY DIDNT RELEASE THE RESULTS LAST YEAR!!!

Give up Frenchies. You are LOSERS!!!!!


Yahoo SPorts:

"The lab cannot link the results to a sportsman and can therefore not confirm the link made by L'Equipe between the test results and the (French federation) documents they publish," the Chatenay-Malabry laboratory said in a statement.

The lab said all tests were anonymous and had been transmitted to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) providing they would not take disciplinary action.

There were no tests to detect EPO, a drug that increases the level of red blood cells and endurance, in 1999. However, samples from the 1999 Tour de France were kept and have been recently retested by the lab based outside Paris.

"The lab can confirm that it has conducted EPO tests on samples from the 1998 and 1999 Tour de France races," it added.

L'Equipe published what it claimed to be a results sheet from the lab which appeared to show six figures from Armstrong's samples revealing traces of EPO.

The newspaper also published documents from the French cycling federation showing exactly the same figures under Lance Armstrong's name.

 

[Felix_in_Beijin]

heard that before: in 1999 "everyone" was using EPO. don't know if it is true.
but: the guys (and not only Armstrong) didn't get slower after 1999. so, what is the stuff they are taking now??? is there a new substance not recognisable yet by standard doping tests? would really appreciate opinions, insights, remakrs on that one....

felix

In fairness, here's what the dopers say.

Philippe Gaumont (coureur français):
«On se fout de la gueule des gens. Pourquoi sortir cette histoire alors que le Tour de France est terminé, que le vélo va entrer dans sa phase de saison morte, et que l'on attende que l'intéressé prenne sa retraite. L'Equipe a réussi par une relation X à sortir l'affaire sinon, elle ne serait jamais apparue au grand public. Les instances se moquent vraiment des gens. En 99, tout le monde tournait à l'EPO: ce n'est donc pas un scoop. Par contre, entre la période 2001 et 2005, là, je serais surpris car Armstrong est quelqu'un d'assez intelligent pour ne pas se faire prendre».

This is no scoop. Everyone did EPO in 99. On the other hand, I would be surprised if Lance did EPO because between 2001 and 2005 hewas one of the few who were intelligent enough NOT to do it.

Filippo Simeoni (coureur) :
«C'est la preuve que je disais bien la vérité et que j'ai toujours été cohérent. Dans cette affaire, j'ai pris toutes mes responsabilités»
Its TRUE ITS TRUE Told ya so Told ya so, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah

 

[Roadrash Dunc]

heard that before: in 1999 "everyone" was using EPO. don't know if it is true.
but: the guys (and not only Armstrong) didn't get slower after 1999. so, what is the stuff they are taking now??? is there a new substance not recognisable yet by standard doping tests? would really appreciate opinions, insights, remakrs on that one....

felix

perhaps they just got smart about when to take EPO and how to mask it.
If there was a new super drug in 2000 we would have heard about it by now.
Perhaps they were all swapping each others blood aswell until last year.

 

[winnezele]

Americans really have no history in cycling. Lance - a non-climber - became a
sprinter in the mountains. No sweat on the face, you could say a robot-face.
From September till June he suffered and suffered in every race he competed.
That was NOT normal........
I follow the cycling world for 35 years now and i immedialtely saw something was wrong. Merckx, Hinault, Fignon, they all suffered like hell in the mountains. I have always been 100% convinced that he was cheating. I just hope he'll get punished very hard especially for those who were second in the tours he won.
In my eyes he never had a 7 tours-record and the article in 'l Equipe strongens
this thought.
winnezele

 

[MJtje]

Where's Flyer when you need him........there are loads of new drugs according to him.....all not detectable!

heard that before: in 1999 "everyone" was using EPO. don't know if it is true.
but: the guys (and not only Armstrong) didn't get slower after 1999. so, what is the stuff they are taking now??? is there a new substance not recognisable yet by standard doping tests? would really appreciate opinions, insights, remakrs on that one....

felix