Armstrong vs LeMond

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Dazzle, Jun 9, 2004.

  1. Dazzle

    Dazzle New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Any thoughts on the similarities and differences between Armstrong and LeMond in terms of riding style, strengths, personality, etc? I always thought LeMond was capable of being a 5 timer (unfortunate shooting accident). Would be interested in your thoughts.
     
    Tags:


  2. Daremo

    Daremo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not really a comparison possible.

    Lemond raced in a different time. He dominated from when he was a young rider, and would have easily won 5 or more "if" not for his hunting accident and greedy team managers. Plus he raced in more than just the Tour. He was the leading guy in technological advances where others were just doing the norm.

    Yeah, Armstrong is a great rider, no doubt about it, and I will be intently watching the Tour next month, but more to see if it is an exciting race like last year than to cheer him on to another victory. But he is solely focused on the one big race. And while it is the pinnacle of the sport in the public's eyes, there are many who look at his linear focus as a negative thing.

    One cannot downplay his results after overcoming such a debilitaing thing as cancer, but to try and compare him to a Lemond, Hinault, Indurain, Mercyx, or Coppi is just not do-able. Totally different type of rider. Maybe his early career can be compared, before the cancer, but not his singular results afterward.

    Just my worhtless opinion.
     
  3. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Without question, Lemond should have been the front runner in two more tours ('87,'88), and would have been more successful in later years ('91,'92, etc.) if it weren't for his accident and the lingering debilitating effects thereof. Lemond should have had 5 or possibly even 6 tour wins as well.

    Each is/was a rider who excelled in all phases of riding, and each was seen as being at the technological forefront. Lemond didn't enjoy the same team strength and cohesiveness as does Lance, but Lemond knew how to capitalize on tactics and knew his opponents' tendencies well. While they have different personalities, if you think about it, there are quite a few interesting parallels that can be drawn between them.
     
  4. Espada9

    Espada9 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Greg was the interface between the old school and modern rider, he rode everything in his early years, even placed well in Paris Roubaix (lance would never dare ride the Hell of the North) as well as almost winning the Giro de Lombardy.

    He brought big stat status and salaries into the sport and helped to bring in into the mainstream media outside Europe.

    Later in his career (after being shot in 86’) he focused primarily on the tour (Lance among others would later follow this trend) winning two more as well as another worlds (world champion twice in his career against some real specialists and superstars).
    LeMond had a much better understanding and I believe respect for the tradition and history of the sport (I saw him as much more stylish than lance who looks like a typical American ESPN jock).

    Lance on the other hand has more focus and dedication to training than anyone of the current generation of riders (couldn’t say that about Greg).
    He has also made the sport not only visible in the mainstream media, but cycling is now seen outside Europe as a top level sport able to compete in the market with baseball, basketball, football, etc for advertising dollars (never done before).

    I think I’m much more of a LeMond fan simply because he seemed to ride on emotion and rode like a real champion of the road, where as Armstrong seems like more of a machine to me (just my opinion).
     
  5. Dazzle

    Dazzle New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting comments so far. Lemond showed huge enthusiasm for his cycling - one of the few riders that really got excited about up coming events or achievements. I agree - he rode on emotion. He wore his personality on his sleave. He was a very charasmatic rider and seemed incredibly sure of himself. Did great things for rallying cycling fans I think.
    A completely separate question: what's the truth about the '85 tour with regards to LeMond having to let Hinault win? True or not true? (not that that has anything to do with Lemond vs Armstrong)
     
  6. Daremo

    Daremo New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    0
    His team car told him to slow down and wait for Hinault. Lemond would have won the race.
     
  7. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe the stage was Luz Ardiden, where Lemond was in the front with a breakway group, with Hinault lagging some 2 minutes or so behind. Had Lemond finished with the group, he would have had enough time on Hinault to take yellow. The team manager instructed him to slow down, and naturally this had Lemond quite upset. Lemond beat Hinault in the last time trial shortly thereafter, so Lemond certainly would have won the '85 TDF if it wasn't for the team manager's intervention. The manager was pressing Lemond to do the same during the feud between Lemond and Hinault in the '86 TDF, but Lemond was having none of it and took the win after a heated battle.
     
  8. rmartin

    rmartin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is just speculation and is not based on any rumour or fact....

    In the late 80s, EPO came onto the market and was soon being abused by cyclists. During the '89 Giro Lemond was coming back from the hunting accident and was finishing with the gruppetto on the mountain stages, 10 or 20mins behind each day. During that race, Lemond had a blood test which apparently diagnosed low iron levels and he was given a series of 'iron injections' to cure this. In the time trial on the penultimate day of the Giro he finished second. Lemond was well known for being a clean rider, but if EPO wasn't illegal at the time then taking it could not be considered to be doping. What if the 'iron injections' were actually EPO? The almost instantaneous effect (i.e improvement in days not months) of EPO would be just like those exhibited by Lemond - stuck to the road one day and flying the next. Of course he held his form through July to win the tour. An amazing comeback in anyones book.

    I'm not knocking Lemond - his comeback was inspirational and (he was the original Armstrong) he is largely responsible for bringing cycling into the modern age in terms of training techniques, use of modern technology and proper contracts and salaries for riders. I'm just putting this forward as a theory for debate.

    Also, anyone know why Lemond's biography has been delayed by a year (was due to come out this April but Amazon say it will now be out in May '05)
     
  9. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's an interesting hypothesis, but I don't see how EPO could do anyone much good if they are iron deficient, simply because you can't synthesize hemoglobin without ample iron.
     
  10. leif_ericson

    leif_ericson New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Iron? Sounds like a new drug... haven't heard of it. I guess it's starting to replace EPO in the peloton?
     
  11. Cipher

    Cipher New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have been a close friend of Gregs (and his family) for almost 16 yrs. now, and can unequivocally state that Greg NEVER I repeat NEVER resorted to doping (legal or otherwise) of any kind!!! (This 'speculation' is totally absurd!) :mad:
     
  12. keydates

    keydates New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does he still live in Minnesota?
     
  13. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    625
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed!
     
  14. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    16,130
    Likes Received:
    115
    First off, I wish to concur with the view expressed by others.
    I don't think that Greg LeMond ever used drugs.
    His statements on this issue have been unequivocal.
    Also his palmares did not indicate any sudden increase in his ability to ride and win.
    LeMond, in my opinion, was clean.

    I have to say I have more respect for LeMond as rider than I do have for Armstrong.
    First of all, Greg cycled throughout the season - one day, small and big stage races.
    He competed in them all and won most of them.
    Also if you consider the quality of his opposition (Hinault, Millar, Roche, Kelly, Indurain, Rooks, Parra), he had tougher opposition
    than Lance Armstrong to over come.
    It takes a special rider to be able to win one day races and the great stage races in the same season.
    Armstrong does not, in my opinion, have Greg's ability.

    He also had what I would consider, character - he came to Europe
    and adapted to the continental way of life at a very young age.
    He was certainly not pampered.
    He came to Europe with a great reputation but he had to prove himself all over again once he arrived here.
    That is the mark of a great champion.
    He also endeared himself to the average European fan - and this
    is probably most impressive of all.
    To over come all these obstacles and do it without antagonising people sways my vote.

    I am on personal terms with a respected cycling journalist who competed against LeMond and he tells me that LeMond was a thoroughly decent person to boot !
     
  15. Cipher

    Cipher New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes he does, although at the moment he is out in Montana on a vacation.
     
  16. WARrider

    WARrider New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2004
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    What happened to Lemond in his hunting accedent?
     
  17. Cipher

    Cipher New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    783
    Likes Received:
    1

    He was accidentally shot by his brother-in-law while turkey hunting.
     
  18. moggie

    moggie New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ther is now comparision between Lance and Greg. I have met both very briefly, Mr Armstrong before his tour win was an arogant so and so would sighn autographs or any thing was really up him self for no reason. Greg on the other hand was the nicest most approachable person you could want to meet. I met him at the 94 tour just before he quit and even though he had a "bad day" still stood and talked and sighned autographs. Even tho LA has chilled and is more friendly he still has a long way to go to win back some fans like me.:p
     
  19. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    16,130
    Likes Received:
    115
    I haven't had the pleasure of meeting either LA or GLM.
    I have heard that GLM is a very pleasant, easy going bloke.
     
  20. djpage

    djpage New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Being a Minnasota boy it is nice to hear not everything good comes from Texas.
     
Loading...
Loading...