Armstrong vs LeMond



CAMPYBOB

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Any guy that swings an a Browning Auto 5 and enjoys upland shooting is OK.



Enjoys fishing...

 

limerickman

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Originally Posted by oldbobcat


His two winning world championship rides sealed my esteem of him as a rider. '83 was a lesson from the master (at 22 years of age) in keeping your powder dry until you need it and then controlling the race from the front. Without teammates. Eddie B. bragged that it was a textbook application of his coaching lessons. And '89 was more tactical, against a stronger field, more spectacular, more improvised, but also brilliant. And without teammates.
Excellent analysis, OBC.
 

oldbobcat

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Originally Posted by danfoz

Still one of my favorite cycling photos of all time...

LeMond left two very disappointed riders that day, Fignon and Kelly. I think Konyshev was satisfied, though.
 

Fatcyclist

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Fastest time trial ever at the end of a tour. Faster than anyone ever rode fresh 20 years later and on dope. Hmmmmmm
 

Fatcyclist

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Originally Posted by mpre53

How many 25 km TTs over a point to point aggregate downhill course, with a tailwind, have been run over the last 25 years?
Right!

So, end of the tour, on the cobels of the Champs, no technology to speak of like "wind tunnels", , advancements in nutrition, no EPO or testosterone, no tail wind or down hill, gear change on the frame, aluminum or chromally frame...

VS.

A Cancellara class rider, gassed to the antlers on EPO and testosterone, fresh, state of the art technology, down hill, tailwind, smooth a glass black top, with every gram rung out of the guys system.......

and you cant beat it.....

I know his VO2 is off the chart but ****!
 

mpre53

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More so than any other type of stage, time trials stand on their own. Unless two riders are riding the same course, under the same weather/wind conditions, time comparisons are meaningless. Has Spartacus ever ridden the same 25 km course that LeMond rode in 1989? You can compare two riders going up, say, Alpe d'Huez in different years, but even there, different conditions affect the comparison. As far as chromoloy vs. carbon goes, weight isn't an important factor on a flat stage. It has much more relevance on a climb. Weight can actually be an advantage in a quartering tail wind, and on a downhill course. 25 km is 15 miles.

The cobbles on the Champs? Watch Sunday's stage, and tell me how much those cobbles affect the lead group of sprinters on the final two laps.

You know, as vocal as LeMond has been about doping over the last 20 years, and seeing how he was never Mr. Popularity among his fellow riders at the time (read some of Fignon's comments in his autobiography), it would seem to me that if someone had the goods on him for doping, they would have dimed him out by now. Fignon hated him. Usually didn't even mention him by name, only as "the American". Fignon admitted his own doping, but he always said that he believed that LeMond rode clean. Cyrille Guimard bitched like there was no tomorrow over his use of aero bars in that TT, and accused him and his team of cheating with UCI's complicity. Guimard concurs in the belief that he rode clean.

If he used EPO, what kept him from resorting to it when Indurain, who climbed like a mule prior to 1991, dropped him like a bad habit on the Tourmalet, and he faded from yellow to 7th over the remainder of the Tour? Otto give him the wrong dosage?
 

oldbobcat

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Originally Posted by mpre53
You know, as vocal as LeMond has been about doping over the last 20 years, and seeing how he was never Mr. Popularity among his fellow riders at the time (read some of Fignon's comments in his autobiography), it would seem to me that if someone had the goods on him for doping, they would have dimed him out by now. Fignon hated him. Usually didn't even mention him by name, only as "the American". Fignon admitted his own doping, but he always said that he believed that LeMond rode clean. Cyrille Guimard bitched like there was no tomorrow over his use of aero bars in that TT, and accused him and his team of cheating with UCI's complicity. Guimard concurs in the belief that he rode clean.

If he used EPO, what kept him from resorting to it when Indurain, who climbed like a mule prior to 1991, dropped him like a bad habit on the Tourmalet, and he faded from yellow to 7th over the remainder of the Tour? Otto give him the wrong dosage?
Good points. I need to read Fignon's book.

There are no compelling reasons to believe that Fignon or LeMond can't be taken at their words. LeMond never could stop talking and he stuck out like a sore thumb. And Fignon's bridesmaid performances and candor speak for themselves. While both of these guys liked winning, I don't think they wanted it badly enough to cheat.
 

southparkboy4u

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There was a strained relationship between LeMond and Fignon when Fignon became sick. They had been friends, but years of competition weakened their relationship. When Fignon got sick, LeMond visited him several times before he died.
 

steve

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Originally Posted by mpre53

How many 25 km TTs over a point to point aggregate downhill course, with a tailwind, have been run over the last 25 years?

I saw this posted elsewhere;
Quote: I thought at the time he definitely should have gone the braid and not the pony tail.

14 seconds in 40 kms according to these "official" tests :)

That's 0.35 seconds per km.

The length of the final ITT in the 1989 TdF? 24.5 kms.

24.5 kms x 0.35 seconds per kms mean Laurent could've saved 8.575 seconds.

Therefore, "going the braid", Laurent could've tied the TdF with Lemond, or won it by less than a second.....


 

limerickman

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Originally Posted by southparkboy4u
There was a strained relationship between LeMond and Fignon when Fignon became sick. They had been friends, but years of competition weakened their relationship. When Fignon got sick, LeMond visited him several times before he died.
I'm glad that Fignon and LeMond became reconciled with each other again before it was too late to do so.

For this years TDF, Eurosport TV had Greg as race summariser on "On Tour with LeMond" and for the final stage on Sunday Greg spoke very highly of Laurent Fignon.

When Nibali heard that LeMond was sumarising, Nibali asked Eurosport to introduce LeMond to him live on air. It was great to see the current TDF champion and the former champion chatting live on air.

I've got to say Greg's insights each day throughout the Tour were superb.
 

CAMPYBOB

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Quote by OBC:
"While both of these guys liked winning, I don't think they wanted it badly enough to cheat."

Wasn't LF busted twice for doping?
 

ambal

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Originally Posted by southparkboy4u
Sportsmanship based on respect. What a beautiful thing........
Doesn't exist so much now days. The mighty dollar rules all.
 

limerickman

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Originally Posted by ambal

Doesn't exist so much now days. The mighty dollar rules all.
I dunno.

When Peraud crashed on the Champs Elysee on Sunday, Nibali insisted that the peloton slowed down until Peraud remounted.
 

mpre53

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Originally Posted by steve


I saw this posted elsewhere;

There are also those who theorize that Fignon was hampered by his wheels in the quartering tailwind. I'm pretty sure that LeMond ran a conventional front wheel, in addition to the aero helmet and bars.

Fignon and LeMond were teammates in 1984, during Greg's first Tour. He finished on the podium (3rd) riding in support of Le Professeur.

Also, there have been several cases in recent years when the yellow jersey has slowed the peloton when another contender has suffered a crash or a mechanical. Last year, Froome did it when Evans and a few other riders rode over tacks that some asshole threw across the road.
 

mpre53

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danfoz said:
Wassa matter for you, turkeys are delicious! I agree with the part about being a sore winner though. Unfortunately despite being a huge Hinault fan (even as an American), I have to say it pained me to watch his disingenuous celebratory finish salutation with Lemond at the top of Alpe D'Huez that year. Anyone watching could tell it pained him greatly to relegate the throne to an American, despite promising otherwise the previous year, and in that moment Lemond proved to be the bigger man letting Hinault cross the line first. However Hinault is still first in my book, apparently being the only pro cyclist who actually knows how to throw a decent punch!
Funny. For all I've read about that famous punch, I never actually saw it until I dug up an old French TV clip a few days ago. It was a pretty good right cross, and the Badger stepped into it. Put all of his weight, such as it was, behind it. Then, today, there's a clip of two nimrods getting into a girlie fight at the Tour of Poland going viral on Facebook. Looks like a slap fight between two sixth grade girls. :big-smile:
 

baker3

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Originally Posted by mpre53

Then, today, there's a clip of two nimrods getting into a girlie fight at the Tour of Poland going viral on Facebook. Looks like a slap fight between two sixth grade girls.
big-smile.png
Cyclists shouldn't fight, we almost always fight like girls.