Armstrong, Wife seperate



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"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Listen you jackass sack of ****. If you were to say that to my face, I
> would
> > put you on your back in a texas second. You are a sports marketing
> executive
> > that probaby sits on his ass all day.
>
> Dearest Bruce -
>
> I'm not a sports marketing executive and have never been involved in that field.
>
>
> >You probably don't even ride a bike.
>
>
>
> Approximately 600 races in 11 years.
>
>
> >Do you normally go around telling people in the office that they have their heads up their ass? I
> >didn't train in Martial Arts for 12 years to take **** like that from you. I hope I don't run
into
> >your sorry ass, because I am sure I will kick it!!
>
>
>
> I am telling you that you have your head up your ass because on this issue it is an accurate
> characterization.
>
>
> I've cited 3 sources that contradict your position. You have offered:
ZERO.

I never promised any data. You ask the questions and then you answer them and if someone doesn't
give you a full review, you trash them. Show a little respect for RBR posters. If they don't get in
a full debate with you, you automatically call them morans. I also said I didn't want to argue about
it. That doesn't give you the right to engage in personal attacks. I agree with the UK guy who
wonders why posts end up with 300+ messages. You guys overkill too many fine points. It's not that
big of a deal. I am entitled to my opinion that Lance is a superstar in cycling but an average star
in the big scheme of things. Compared with Top Sports it is my opinion that he is average. That
doesn't mean I don't respect Lance. I actually find Lance kind of bland, but he is one super
cyclist, not the best of all time but very, very good. I agree with Dave and what he posted. Lance
is in the spotlight now, but not nearly what he would be if cycling was a Top Sport. Dave is right.
When Lance retires you won't hear much about him, compared to a lot of Sports stars that continue to
make commericals after retiring, like Joe Montana, MJ and a lot of others. Lance will probably get
the least offers, mainly because I think cycling is not Top Sport. Lances cancer made him a huge
figure, and if cycling was a Top Sport Lance would be the biggest player ahead of Tiger Woods.
[That's my opinion] Your stats and sources don't round out the whole picture. They are just numbers,
good numbers but don't justify that your view is the absolute truth. BTW, Greg Lemond winning by 8
seconds after being at death's door from the hunting accident made him an instant hero. Those two
factors worked well together to rocket him to instant fame. It's a shame that the Taco Bell
commerical fell through due mostly to the fact I believe that the cups were recalled because of
danger to children, something like that. Anyway, no need to fine tune that lance is a superstar in
cycling. Let's leave it at that. We can agree to disagree without the personal attacks.

B-

>
> thank you very much,
>
>
>
> K. Gringioni
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> overkill too many fine points. It's not that big of a deal. I am entitled
to
> my opinion that Lance is a superstar in cycling but an average star in the big scheme of things.
> Compared with Top Sports it is my opinion that he is average. That doesn't mean I don't respect
> Lance. I actually find Lance
kind
> of bland,

Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods are also bland.

I agree with Dave and what he posted. Lance is in the spotlight
> now, but not nearly what he would be if cycling was a Top Sport. Dave is right. When Lance retires
> you won't hear much about him, compared to a lot of Sports stars that continue to make commericals
> after retiring, like Joe Montana, MJ and a lot of others. Lance will probably get the least
> offers, mainly because I think cycling is not Top Sport. Lances cancer made him a huge figure, and
> if cycling was a Top Sport Lance would be the biggest player ahead of Tiger Woods.

That's funny.

LANCE makes more $$$ in endorsements than any football or baseball player, so clearly:

It's all about the Melodrama, Mr. head-up-yur-ass Johnston. No one has Melodrama like LANCE.

When he retires, his endorsement value will not vanish into thin air because cycling as a sport gets
very little mainstream press anyways. He will still be the living symbol of hope for cancer victims.

http://taipeitimes.com/chnews/2001/08/05/story/0000097248 Cycling isn't golf, it isn't baseball,"
said Armstrong, whose endorsements are worth US$17 million a year, according to the Italian
newspaper Gazzetta Dello Sport. "But people recognize the effort, they recognize the story, they
recognize the illness. That's nice. That's an honor."

K. Gringioni
 
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> LANCE makes more $$$ in endorsements than any football or baseball player,

uhhh Alex Rodriguez makes 25.2 million per year on a ten year contract in salary alone playing
baseball for the Texas Rangers, Kevin Garnett gets 21 million a year playing basketball for the
Minnesota Timberwolves. With that salary...who needs endorsements, but I am sure they have bigger
deals than Lance. Heck even Oscar De La Hoya (boxer) made over 40 million in prize money and
endorsements last year http://www.only-sports.com/object=1874

Dave
 
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > LANCE makes more $$$ in endorsements than any football or baseball
player,
>
> uhhh Alex Rodriguez makes 25.2 million per year on a ten year contract in
salary alone playing
> baseball for the Texas Rangers, Kevin Garnett gets 21 million a year
playing basketball for the
> Minnesota Timberwolves. With that salary...who needs endorsements, but I
am sure they have bigger
> deals than Lance. Heck even Oscar De La Hoya (boxer) made over 40 million
in prize money and
> endorsements last year http://www.only-sports.com/object=1874

You are confused, namely you are confusing salary with an athlete's desirability as a
corporate pitchman.

The salary a professional athlete earns in his sport is related to his excellence in that sport.

The money earned from endorsements is related to how well a corporation thinks that person can
sell their product. Overall, from the perspective of corporate America, the two are only
distantly related.

Last year Tiger Woods made 6.9 million on the PGA Tour. His endorsements are $50 million. If Alex
Rodriguez made an equivalent amount of endorsement $$ relative to salary $$, he would make $140
million/year from endorsements. He doesn't make close to that, I'd be suprised if he made $5
million/year.

LANCE gets $17 million. Why does he make so much? Why does Tiger make so much? Why does Michael
Jordan make so much?

Because many non-sports fans know who Tiger and MJ and LANCE are.

Alex Rodriguez is arguably the best baseball player, but he doesn't even make the top 10 list. Why?
Non-baseball fans do not know who Alex Rodriguez
is. They don't know the difference between Alex Rodriguez, Pudge Rodriguez or Henry Rodriguez.

BTW, this debate is about endorsement potential, not salary.
 
On 2/23/03 9:24 PM, in article [email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BA7D55D1.2D73A%[email protected]...
>> Appeal and $ received for endorsements are 2 different things
> assclown......
>
>
>
>
> Your level of thinking (with no basis in fact) has never ceased to amaze me.
>
> From: http://taipeitimes.com/chnews/2001/08/05/story/0000097248
>
> But the American knows he doesn't get the kind of mega-sponsorships offered to stars in major US
> sports such as basketball, baseball and football. "Cycling isn't golf, it isn't baseball," said
> Armstrong, whose endorsements are worth US$17 million a year, according to the Italian newspaper
> Gazzetta Dello Sport. "But people recognize the effort, they recognize the story, they recognize
> the illness. That's nice. That's an honor."
>
> <snip><end>
>
>
>
> Jordan made an estimated $30million/year in endorsements. Tiger makes more than that.
> Lance is 3rd.
>
>
What the hell was different between my 1 sentence and your constant paraphrasing of web based
info??????????????
 
"steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BA7F81CB.2DDDF%[email protected]...
> On 2/23/03 9:24 PM, in article [email protected], "Kurgan Gringioni"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > "steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BA7D55D1.2D73A%[email protected]...
> >> Appeal and $ received for endorsements are 2 different things
> > assclown......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your level of thinking (with no basis in fact) has never ceased to amaze
me.
> >
> > From: http://taipeitimes.com/chnews/2001/08/05/story/0000097248
> >
> > But the American knows he doesn't get the kind of mega-sponsorships
offered
> > to stars in major US sports such as basketball, baseball and football. "Cycling isn't golf, it
> > isn't baseball," said Armstrong, whose
endorsements
> > are worth US$17 million a year, according to the Italian newspaper
Gazzetta
> > Dello Sport. "But people recognize the effort, they recognize the story, they recognize the
> > illness. That's nice. That's an honor."
> >
> > <snip><end>
> >
> >
> >
> > Jordan made an estimated $30million/year in endorsements. Tiger makes
more
> > than that. Lance is 3rd.
> >
> >
> What the hell was different between my 1 sentence and your constant paraphrasing of web based
> info??????????????

You wrote that "appeal and $ received for endorsements are 2 different things assclown".

One of the sources I cited had LANCE 3rd in endorsement appeal (in the opinion of ad execs). The
other cites the amount of $ he makes from endorsements, placing him 3rd yet again.

It's not "paraphrasing" BTW. Paraphrasing is when you take someone else's idea and restate it in
your own words.

The pasting in of urls and data is to base my position on fact. All anyone who disagrees with me so
far in this thread is offer their half-assed opinion. The only way I will change my mind is if
someone offers some data which supports their contention.
 
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > overkill too many fine points. It's not that big of a deal. I am
entitled
> to
> > my opinion that Lance is a superstar in cycling but an average star in
the
> > big scheme of things. Compared with Top Sports it is my opinion that he
is
> > average. That doesn't mean I don't respect Lance. I actually find Lance
> kind
> > of bland,
>
>
> Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods are also bland.

Michael Jordan is bland? I don't really care about him or follow him, but I think he is far
from bland.
>
>
> I agree with Dave and what he posted. Lance is in the spotlight
> > now, but not nearly what he would be if cycling was a Top Sport. Dave is right. When Lance
> > retires you won't hear much about him, compared to a
lot
> > of Sports stars that continue to make commericals after retiring, like
Joe
> > Montana, MJ and a lot of others. Lance will probably get the least
offers,
> > mainly because I think cycling is not Top Sport. Lances cancer made him
a
> > huge figure, and if cycling was a Top Sport Lance would be the biggest player ahead of Tiger
> > Woods.
>
>
>
> That's funny.
>
> LANCE makes more $$$ in endorsements than any football or baseball player, so clearly:
>
> It's all about the Melodrama, Mr. head-up-yur-ass Johnston. No one has Melodrama like LANCE.

Oh, thanks for the revelation, it's about melodrama. Glad you told me that.

Well first of all, jackass know it all Gringioni, I hope I run into you at a race so you can start
your personal name calling attacks. Then you can put up or shut up. I don't care how much Lance
makes in endorsements. That doesn't force everyone to like him or cycling. Cancer coupled with 4 TDL
victories puts him in the spotlight. Take away 4 TDL victories and Lance would be zip, because he
hasn't won much else. Cancer by itself would of never put him in the spotlight without the TDL
victories. Granted there still would have been some praise for courage. I don't really give a ****
about either of both MJ's either, or a host of other top stars based on the money they make and
endorsements and it doesn't make me run out and buy Nikes. Youngsters are brainwashed by a lot of
this ****, propaganda on TV and drive the markets. Lots of these stars make me puke. The fact is not
everyone is in love with Lance, or the endorsement products he is associated with. His Comcast
commercials are not going to make me jump on the broadband wagon either. There is a difference
between how he is projected through the media and what people really think and feel about Lance.
Yes, marketing analysts crunch numbers on their products in relation to Lance's star power and
ability to woo the public into buying their products but that's always the gamble for the big
companies. He is an average star in my opinion regardless of what your numbers show.

>
> When he retires, his endorsement value will not vanish into thin air
because
> cycling as a sport gets very little mainstream press anyways. He will
still
> be the living symbol of hope for cancer victims.

Wrong Dude!!!!

As soon as he stops winning the TDF his endorsements will vanish! Hello?? Lances cancer means
nothing without his 4 TDL victories! His endorsements might continue for a very short time and then
vanish. Dave is right, that this country treats it's stars like toilet paper and will quickly be
looking for the next Lance to make money off of.

Gringioni, you are a killing machine, like a giant wood chipper with a diesel engine. You just go
around chewing up rbr posters and spitting them out. Gringioni Court, judge, jury and executioner.
Why don't show some grace and allow yourself to accept others opinions without character
assassination. I didn't promise anything extra since the original post. It didn't start off as a
debate about endorsements or salaries, it was about Armstrong and his wife separating. That's why I
wouldn't want to waste my time getting data to refute you. I am really not interested in how much
money he earns in endorsements. My opinion is not based on that. It wouldn't matter anyway because
you seem to be one of those kind of guys who has to always be right. You rarely agree with anyone
but often take the high or low road just to prove somebody wrong. You argue too much and often rub
people the wrong way. Show some grace and stop the name calling too.

>
> http://taipeitimes.com/chnews/2001/08/05/story/0000097248 Cycling isn't golf, it isn't baseball,"
> said Armstrong, whose endorsements are worth US$17 million a year, according to the Italian
> newspaper
Gazzetta
> Dello Sport. "But people recognize the effort, they recognize the story, they recognize the
> illness. That's nice. That's an honor."
>
>
>
> K. Gringioni
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Well first of all, jackass know it all Gringioni, I hope I run into you
at
> a race so you can start your personal name calling attacks. Then you can
put
> up or shut up.

Woohooooo!!! Another usenet Tough Guy! My hands are shaking in fear as I type this.

<snip><snip>

> Armstrong and his wife separating. That's why I wouldn't want to waste my time getting data to
> refute you.

<snip><snip>

Ummm . . . with the amount of time you spent typing in that rant, you easily could have gotten
plenty of data, if it existed. Thing is, it doesn't exist because your opinion is completely off.
One truism about the stubborn and ill-informed: the facts never get in the way of their opinions. If
the adage: "ignorance is bliss" is true, then I envy you.

have a nice day, dearest Head-up-yur-ass Johnston! You are a fun guy.

http://members.aol.com/evank40767/arguing.jpg

Kurgan Gringioni
 
Bruce Johnston wrote:
>

> Gringioni, you are a killing machine, like a giant wood chipper with a diesel engine. You just go
> around chewing up rbr posters and spitting them out. Gringioni Court, judge, jury and executioner.

This just makes me cringe. First off, if you get whooped on in a usenet argument by a Cat 5 arguer
like Kurgan "The Virgin," you really ought to be ashamed of yourself. Secondly, you should never
admit it even if it did happen. Finally, you shouldn't be building up his already massive ego. This
kind of **** will go to his head and he'll be sending in his upgrade for Cat 4 usenet retard.

Then again, it might encourage him to be an even bigger retard and that will be fun too. If you get
steamrolled in the process, oh well. This is a Cat 5 thread for sure. It's about some bike racer
dude and his wife, with no pictures.
 
You must be a lonely dude. Were you abused as a child, or what is it? Never mind I don't want to
know. I remember you now. You are that Henry Chang guy. You left because you said you were sick and
tired of everyone arguing about racing tactics and stuff like that. Why did you come back? Couldn't
stay away huh? You been trying to bait me into your arguments, but after seeing your responses to
others over time in this newsgroup I would rather not take the bait. Hey, I didn't attack you, it
was you that started the trouble after I responded to the original post. That's all I was interested
in. But you can't let it go, can you? Your behavior suggests someone who is barely post adolescence.
Posting links like that shows your real character and mentality. I heard you were a trust fund baby,
living on mommy and daddy money? Well grow up would you? Take a vacation and give rbr a break.

B-

--------------------

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Well first of all, jackass know it all Gringioni, I hope I run into you
> at
> > a race so you can start your personal name calling attacks. Then you can
> put
> > up or shut up.
>
>
> Woohooooo!!! Another usenet Tough Guy! My hands are shaking in fear as I type this.
>
>
> <snip><snip>
>
> > Armstrong and his wife separating. That's why I wouldn't want to waste
my
> > time getting data to refute you.
>
> <snip><snip>
>
>
> Ummm . . . with the amount of time you spent typing in that rant, you
easily
> could have gotten plenty of data, if it existed. Thing is, it doesn't
exist
> because your opinion is completely off. One truism about the stubborn and ill-informed: the
> facts never get in the way of their opinions. If the adage: "ignorance is bliss" is true, then I
> envy you.
>
>
> have a nice day, dearest Head-up-yur-ass Johnston! You are a fun guy.
>
>
> http://members.aol.com/evank40767/arguing.jpg
>
>
>
> Kurgan Gringioni
 
heather halvorson wrote:
>
> The Pomeranian wrote:
>
>>This is a Cat 5 thread for sure. It's about some bike racer dude and his wife, with no pictures.
>
>
> well, there's this standby. it's vaguely on the topic of LANCE-
>
> http://www.finecycling.com/not-bike/not-bike.html
>

Are those the new Shimano cycling shoes? Will they make me faster?
 
"The Pomeranian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Bruce Johnston wrote:
> >
>
> > Gringioni, you are a killing machine, like a giant wood chipper with a diesel engine. You just
> > go around chewing up rbr posters and spitting
them
> > out. Gringioni Court, judge, jury and executioner.
>
> This just makes me cringe. First off, if you get whooped on in a usenet argument by a Cat 5 arguer
> like Kurgan "The Virgin," you really ought to be ashamed of yourself. Secondly, you should never
> admit it even if it did happen. Finally, you shouldn't be building up his already massive ego.
> This kind of **** will go to his head and he'll be sending in his upgrade for Cat 4 usenet retard.
>
> Then again, it might encourage him to be an even bigger retard and that will be fun too. If you
> get steamrolled in the process, oh well. This is a Cat 5 thread for sure. It's about some bike
> racer dude and his wife, with no pictures.
------------------------
Yes, I threw that in to be funny, maybe the guy will lighten up [his demeanor]. Not talking in terms
of his knowledge related to any level of cycling or any topic about racers, IE- Lance, but his
demeanor, behavior mentality. 90 percent of posts are not usually personal attacks, or character
assignation. RBR's quite often disagree without resulting in all the personal attacks. I am not
ashamed of anything. I never offer any data or agreed to get into this argument that strayed off the
root. I responded to a personal attack. I didn't get whooped, because I didn't take the bait on that
argument. Gringioni was basically having an argument with himself and a few others. The data he
provided wasn't that grand. It doesn't take that much research to muster up the handful of links he
provided. I didn't respond to them, and neither did I want to spend the time on it. It's not worth
it. With any effort at all anyone could spend a little time researching Lance's star power in
relation to marketing and advertising endorsements. No one going to steamroll me, I can give as good
as I take. The funny paragraph I posted was about his demeanor that has shown up in a ton of other
posts in other threads. He is very rude, cold and mean spirited. That's not my problem, I can hold
my ground. It wouldn't take me very long to research what Gringioni posted, but what's the point?
It's just about Lances star power, and I have no interest beyond the original post. I don't care how
big his ego is, as long as he is cool, decent, respectful, etc. which he isn't. I don't know the guy
that well so yes I do take offense to his insults and attacks. I never take offense to attacks or
insults that aren't deliberate character assignation. Gringioni says he has been in 600 races over
so many years and he might have some excellent data from time to time, but that doesn't give his the
right to assume others are morons if they don't buy into his debate.

Enough said,

OK?

Let's move on...

B-
 
Dude, you are in a class all of your own! One last Question? Why do so many people in this
newsgroup like you?

B-
-----------------------
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> <rant><rant>
>
> >You been trying to bait me into your arguments, but after seeing your responses to others over
> >time in this newsgroup I would rather not
> take
> > the bait.
>
> <snip><snip>
>
>
>
>
> lol
>
> damn, you are a funny guy, Mr. Head-up-ur-ass Johnston.
>
>
>
> http://www.alaskanfishing.com/photos/1102halibut05a-photocatch.jpg
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Dude, you are in a class all of your own! One last Question? Why do so
many
> people in this newsgroup like you?

I have no idea.

Why are you obsessed with Leontien Van Moorsel?
 
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Dude, you are in a class all of your own! One last Question? Why do so
> many
> > people in this newsgroup like you?
>
>
>
>
> I have no idea.
>
>
> Why are you obsessed with Leontien Van Moorsel?

-------------------
How's you know that? You weren't here. Ah, you been lurking dude. She caught my eye when she was on
the US networks here in the games in Spain, early 90's. We had same eating disorders in common, so I
admire her comback and three gold medals, silver at Sydney. Nobody ever talks about that, like they
do about Lance coming back from cancer. LZ almost died from anorexia and she is the greatest olympic
champion of all time for both men and women with her three gold and one silver. I like to read up on
female racers, especially the top ten, referring to Jeanson, Braendhi, Bessette, Rossner, Longo,
Bruckner, Melchers, Ljungskog, etc. The women are just as interesting to watch as far as I am
concerned. [my opinion]

B-
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Dude, you are in a class all of your own! One last Question? Why do so
> > many
> > > people in this newsgroup like you?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have no idea.
> >
> >
> > Why are you obsessed with Leontien Van Moorsel?
>
> -------------------
> How's you know that? You weren't here. Ah, you been lurking dude.

<snip>

I wasn't lurking.

Another rbr regular emailed me about this thread and wrote:

"Were you around when this guy was broadcasting his Leontein Van Moorsel stalker fetish?"
 
"Bruce Johnston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> I like to read up on female racers, especially the top ten, referring to Jeanson, Braendhi,
> Bessette, Rossner, Longo, Bruckner, Melchers, Ljungskog, etc. The women are just as interesting to
> watch as far as I am concerned. [my opinion]
>
Assuming van Moorsel is also in that list, who is the cyclist you didn't mention?
 
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