Armstrong's advance retirement notice: why?



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Incoherent lover, the vultures have been circling for a few years now (since July 2000 Actovegin & Insulin). It gets worse each year since. At least six lawsuits plus criminal investigations as well. It all adds up.

I would suggest that your utter comtempt for the doping problem makes you the most hateful of sporting fans.

You have a real hatred for human life.

Please get help.


rejobako said:
Typically incoherent post from you. If Armstrong was intent on extricating himself from legal troubles, he would not announce his intent to retire months ahead of time and give the vultures time to start circling.

In the meantime, my original inquiry was from a sporting perspective -- whether Armstrong's retirement might positively or negatively affect the approach of his rivals to their last competition with him.

I realize the sport doesn't much interest you, as you seem to be content with innuendo and mudslinging, but some of us actually have an interest in what happens on the road.

Have a nice day, though, and say hello to your psychotherapist for me.
 
rejobako said:
Crankster: I agree that the sport of professional cycling seems to be leaning more toward specialization and event "cherry picking" by the riders who have some clout to dictate their schedules, but I also think it's fair criticism to suggest that a rider like Armstrong, who really does not attempt to compete in top form in any event except one, will always have a bit of an asterisk by his name in any discussion of the best ever.

Grand Tours are but one cycling discipline: no doubt it is the most grueling, and the TdF is exponentially more prestigious than any other single cycling event in the world, but there are nonetheless dozens of other notable competitions in which Lance has never tested himself. And in those few pre-Tour events he does choose to ride, he never shows up attempting to be in top form, or contesting to win. If he wins, it's gravy. If not, it was just a glorified training ride.

I scoff at those who suggest Armstrong isn't the greatest TdF rider ever, on the basis that others have more stage wins, or spent more time in yellow, or won multiple jerseys. The ultimate cycling achievement is a GC win in the TdF. Days in yellow, and individual stage wins, are significant achievements, but are in essence merely building blocks to the ultimate goal. If that goal is not achieved by a man who covets it, he may have competed gallantly, but he has failed. If a cyclist were to win the first 20 stages and spend each day in yellow, then lose the GC on the last day, the headline would read: "So and so loses", and all the success of the previous 3 weeks would be seen as the means for setting up a spectacular fall.

Armstrong isn't the greatest cyclist ever, and I suspect that if he rode the schedule of Eddy Merckx as hard as Eddy did, Armstrong may not have a single TdF win to his name, because he'd be completely gassed by July. On the other hand, Eddy Merckx at his best would have a tough time competing with Lance Armstrong in this event, because IMO no one has ever been more proficient at preparing for a single event, focusing his talents, and using the team around him, as Lance Armstrong.

Exactly what I wanted to say, but better put than I would have managed :)
 
Flyer said:
Lance's actions speak for themself. He has become what he loathed in his own father.
Well, that and a 6-time TdF winner.

There are many couples with relationships that cannot withstand the pressure applied by the quest for fame and fortune sought by one of the parties. Armstrong may indeed be culpable in whatever led to the split between he and the mother of his children; I suspect he might regret that he has used so much of his time in his pursuit of cycling goals and his Foundation rather than his family. The only thing that is certain, however, is that a mewling, sanctimonious twit like you is the last person on earth qualified to judge him or anyone else who has made the decision to make difficult sacrifices in pursuit of excellence. (Respectfully speaking, of course. :) ) Sometimes, it seems to me, Armstrong's pursuit of his personal ambitions make him appear to be a very arrogant, unsympathetic character. I wonder, what's your excuse?
 
Flyer said:
I would suggest that your utter comtempt for the doping problem makes you the most hateful of sporting fans.
How can I have any contempt for the doping problem when I'm compelled to use it all on you? One reprehensible thing at a time . . .
 
rejobako said:
Crankster: I agree that the sport of professional cycling seems to be leaning more toward specialization and event "cherry picking" by the riders who have some clout to dictate their schedules, but I also think it's fair criticism to suggest that a rider like Armstrong, who really does not attempt to compete in top form in any event except one, will always have a bit of an asterisk by his name in any discussion of the best ever.

Grand Tours are but one cycling discipline: no doubt it is the most grueling, and the TdF is exponentially more prestigious than any other single cycling event in the world, but there are nonetheless dozens of other notable competitions in which Lance has never tested himself. And in those few pre-Tour events he does choose to ride, he never shows up attempting to be in top form, or contesting to win. If he wins, it's gravy. If not, it was just a glorified training ride.
You are absolutely correct, but I believe the nature of the sport has changed so much, it's very difficult to expect top Tour condenders to also arrive in top form to contest other events - be it classics, or Grand/smaller Tours.

The tendency to focus on one event is a general one, not just something Lance choses to do. Basso attempted (unsuccessfully) to do Giro/TdF double. But other than that, not many podium contenders even try anymore. Heras and Mayo showed lack of form at this year's TdF, just like last year, and will probably peak for Vuelta. Cunego, DiLuca and Simoni didn't even start the Tour, and despite annual promises of Simoni to show LA who the real climber is, he was never impressive in TdF. Ullrich decided that he doesn't want (or can't?) for TdS win, Vino couldn't pull of Paris-Nice which is typically his territory.

Armstrong is not without some strong resume in classics and mini-Tours:
he won Fleche Wallone, World Champs, Tour of Luxemburg and Tour de Swisse, won Dauphine twice, was second at LBL and Amstel gold.

What classics did Basso, Ullrich, Beloki, Heras, Savoldelli, Simoni and others win?

Of all recent GC contenders, Vino may be the only one to have more impressive "non-Grand Tour" resume than Lance, but considering that he is considered by many a purely classics rider who recently turned to grand tours, and considering his relatively unimpressive GT record (one third in 2003 and seems like out of podium this year - hopefully not!), I am not sure there's much of a case to be made.
 
I love how pointing out obvious and inescapable truths so offends you.

You have already established that you couldn't care less about drugged athlete.

Why do care about my posts?

Get back to solving the global energy problem and terror attacks.

Leave the doping problem to those who have a heart and some compassion.

Get busy now!




rejobako said:
Well, that and a 6-time TdF winner.

There are many couples with relationships that cannot withstand the pressure applied by the quest for fame and fortune sought by one of the parties. Armstrong may indeed be culpable in whatever led to the split between he and the mother of his children; I suspect he might regret that he has used so much of his time in his pursuit of cycling goals and his Foundation rather than his family. The only thing that is certain, however, is that a mewling, sanctimonious twit like you is the last person on earth qualified to judge him or anyone else who has made the decision to make difficult sacrifices in pursuit of excellence. (Respectfully speaking, of course. :) ) Sometimes, it seems to me, Armstrong's pursuit of his personal ambitions make him appear to be a very arrogant, unsympathetic character. I wonder, what's your excuse?
 
Flyer said:
I love how pointing out obvious and inescapable truths so offends you.

You have already established that you couldn't care less about drugged athlete.

Why do care about my posts?

Get back to solving the global energy problem and terror attacks.

Leave the doping problem to those who have a heart and some compassion.

Get busy now!
i'm hoping english isn't your native language because i'm having a hard time understanding wtf your points are. :rolleyes:
 
cheap and inexpensive:

Understand this:

Dario Frigo was arrested today at the Team Hotel because police found illegal drugs in his wife's car.

He was in 52 on GC before the arrest and abandonment.

So they are STILL doping in the TDF. Surprise!

Jean Marie Leblanc regretted that Frigo is from a generation of riders who will not learn.

But this is untrue! In the 2001 Giro the drugs were discovered in his San Remo Hotel room.

Not this time.

Nobody keeps drug in the rooms anymore.

Comprehend now cheapie?

cheapie said:
i'm hop
ing english isn't your native language because i'm having a hard time understanding wtf your points are. :rolleyes:
 
Flyer said:
cheap and inexpensive:

Understand this:

Dario Frigo was arrested today at the Team Hotel because police found illegal drugs in his wife's car.

He was in 52 on GC before the arrest and abandonment.

So they are STILL doping in the TDF. Surprise!

Jean Marie Leblanc regretted that Frigo is from a generation of riders who will not learn.

But this is untrue! In the 2001 Giro the drugs were discovered in his San Remo Hotel room.

Not this time.

Nobody keeps drug in the rooms anymore.

Comprehend now cheapie?

ummm....now you gotta connect that dot with the one that shows rejobako hates humanity. :confused:
 
Some stats:


2005 classics

Milan-Sanremo:
1 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 7.11.39 (40.866 km/h)
2 Danilo Hondo (Ger) Gerolsteiner
3 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole
4 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Cofidis, Le Credit Par Telephone
5 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank
6 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Française Des Jeux
7 Ruggero Marzoli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone-Adria Mobil
8 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step
9 Franco Pellizotti (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi
10 Manuele Mori (Ita) Saunier Duval-Prodir

Tour of Flanders:
1 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step 6.22.00 (40.2 km/h)
2 Andreas Klier (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.35
3 Peter Van Petegem (Bel) Davitamon-Lotto 0.40
4 Erik Zabel (Ger) T-Mobile Team
5 Roberto Petito (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
6 Alessandro Ballan (Ita) Lampre-Caffita
7 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 1.42
8 Leon Van Bon (Ned) Davitamon-Lotto
9 Serguei Ivanov (Rus) T-Mobile Team
10 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Team CSC

Gent-Wevelgem:
1 Nico Mattan (Bel) Davitamon - Lotto 4.53.07 (42.577 km/h)
2 Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa) Fassa Bortolo 0.02
3 Daniele Bennati (Ita) Lampre - Caffita 0.09
4 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo
5 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Crédit Agricole
6 Baden Cooke (Aus) Française des Jeux 0.16
7 Tom Steels (Bel) Davitamon - Lotto 0.18
8 Simone Cadamuro (Ita) Domina Vacanze
9 Erik Zabel (Ger) T-Mobile
10 Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Cofidis - Le Crédit par Téléphone

Paris-Roubaix:

1 Tom Boonen (Bel) Quick Step 6.29.38 (39.88 km/h)
2 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team
3 Juan Antonio Flecha (Spa) Fassa Bortolo
4 Magnus Backstedt (Swe) Liquigas-Bianchi 1.09
5 Lars Michaelsen (Den) Team CSC 2.43
6 Leon Van Bon (Ned) Davitamon-Lotto 3.49
7 Florent Brard (Fra) Agritubel
8 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Fassa Bortolo
9 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole
10 Arnaud Coyot (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit Par Telephone

Amstel Gold:

1 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) Liquigas - Bianchi 6.21.07
2 Michael Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank
3 Mirko Celestino (Ita) Domina Vacanze
4 Davide Rebellin (Ita) Gerolsteiner
5 Miguel Angel Martin Perdiguero (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
6 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) Quickstep
7 Bjorn Leukemans (Bel) Davitamon-Lotto
8 David Etxebarria Alkorta (Spa) Liberty Seguros - Würth Team
9 Jerome Pineau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
10 Oscar Freire Gomez (Spa) Rabobank

Fleche Wallonne:
1 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 4.44.55 (42.43 km/h)
2 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Fassa Bortolo
3 Davide Rebellin (Ita) Gerolsteiner
4 David Etxebarria Alkorta (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 0.04
5 Oscar Freire (Spa) Rabobank
6 Angel Vicioso (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team
7 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) Quick Step
8 Aitor Osa (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne
9 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 0.08
10 Fabian Wegmann (Ger) Gerolsteiner

Liege-Bastogne-Liege:
1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 6.29.09 (40.09 km/h)
2 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC
3 Michael Boogerd (Ned) Rabobank 0.14
4 Paolo Bettini (Ita) Quick Step 0.24
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto
6 David Etxebarria (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 0.27
7 Miguel Angel Martin Perdiguero (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.28
8 Mirko Celestino (Ita) Domina Vacanze
9 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Caffita
10 Angel Vicioso (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team


2005 Grand Tours:

Giro d'Italia:

1 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel-Pro Cycling Team 91.25.51
2 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Lampre-Caffita 0.28
3 Jose' Rujano Guillen (Ven) Selle Italia-Colombia 0.45
4 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) Liquigas-Bianchi 2.42
5 Juan Manuel Garate (Spa) Saunier Duval-Prodir 3.11
6 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr) Domina Vacanze 4.22
7 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Illes Balears 11.15
8 Pietro Caucchioli (Ita) Credit Agricole 11.38
9 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Fassa Bortolo 11.40
10 Emanuele Sella (Ita) Ceramica Panaria-Navigare 12.33


Tour De France (currently):
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 41.59.57 (43.902 km/h)
2 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 0.38
3 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 2.34
4 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 2.40
5 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 3.16
6 Santiago Botero (Col) Phonak Hearing Systems 3.48
7 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 3.58
8 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 4.00
9 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.02
10 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 4.16



So LA aside, you can take any one of the top 10 guys in current GC and ask them - why don't you ride (or not successful at) any of the spring classics or Giro? Reversely, you may ask why can't any of the top classic riders or top GC Giro riders ride the Tour successfully?
 
A little slow on the uptake.

You don't even understand how blood boosting oxygenation therapies help an endurance athlete.

Perhaps you could spend some time with David Millar, Tyler Hamilton, Johan Museeuw, Eddie Plankaert, Dave Bruylandts, Oscar Camenxzind,
Nina Kraft, Rutger Beke, or the Discovery Team
in order to grasp hold on the doping facts of life.

Or find the wives of Dario Frigo's and Ranumdas Rumsas---they know the doping drills.

rejobaka has only apathy for athletes, cares about bigger problems--or so he claims.


cheapie said:
ummm....now you gotta connect that dot with the one that shows rejobako hates humanity. :confused:
 
Flyer said:
I love how pointing out obvious and inescapable truths so offends you.
When you point one out, let me know and I'll be happy to be offended.

Relevance wouldn't hurt either, but I realize that may be asking too much . . .
 
Dario Frigo is your daddy!




rejobako said:
When you point one out, let me know and I'll be happy to be offended.

Relevance wouldn't hurt either, but I realize that may be asking too much . . .
 
Flyer said:
A little slow on the uptake.

You don't even understand how blood boosting oxygenation therapies help an endurance athlete.

rejobaka has only apathy for athletes, cares about bigger problems--or so he claims.
again, wth are you talking about? how did either of my posts indicate my knowledge or lack thereof regarding blood boosting? in my short time reading your posts, they seem a jumble of fairly loosely connected antagonistic statements.

you seem like an expert on doping. cool. but why direct so much angst against fellow cycling fans? life's too short man....
 
Flyer said:
Arejobaka has only apathy for athletes, cares about bigger problems--or so he claims.
I realize it's difficult for you to keep track of all the forum members who take issue with your blather, but you are confusing me with MJtje, who made the comment about the London bombings in another thread.

In the meantime, I find it interesting that you claim to have "heart and compassion" for the athletes as you go about painting all of them with the same brush as dopers, cheats, and liars. I suppose in the vast, surreal vacuums of your mind you have the idea that you're engaged in a worthy crusade. Unfortunately, there will always be bigger windmills in front of you, Senor Quixote.
 
I am accustom to windmills spewing out hot air.

Meanwhile, we finally got some doping compliance today. Dario Frigo and EPO and other go-juice.

Bring on the raids and hearrassments.



rejobako said:
I realize it's difficult for you to keep track of all the forum members who take issue with your blather, but you are confusing me with MJtje, who made the comment about the London bombings in another thread.

In the meantime, I find it interesting that you claim to have "heart and compassion" for the athletes as you go about painting all of them with the same brush as dopers, cheats, and liars. I suppose in the vast, surreal vacuums of your mind you have the idea that you're engaged in a worthy crusade. Unfortunately, there will always be bigger windmills in front of you, Senor Quixote.
 
Knock off the WFT remarks then cycling fan.

That was rude.


cheapie said:
again, wth are you talking about? how did either of my posts indicate my knowledge or lack thereof regarding blood boosting? in my short time reading your posts, they seem a jumble of fairly loosely connected antagonistic statements.

you seem like an expert on doping. cool. but why direct so much angst against fellow cycling fans? life's too short man....
 
Flyer said:
Life is even shorter if you absue PEDs!

Premature death and chronic health troubles.

ok. but since very few people here are likely doing so, easy up a bit.
 
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