Armstrong's enlightening comments
- Thread starter thunder
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I kind of agree with him that it is arbitrary and inconsistent. And I'm not an Astana supporter.thunder said:
That he is saying that they "all" dope... I get it. How can he say they all dope? Did they all test positive?thunder said:
This is the most tired argument I've heard out of the Astana crowd. First of all, it sounds like the sort of defense you'd hear out of a 7-year-old ("How come I'm the only one who gets punished? He did it too!!!"). They need to stop the whining and fingerpointing, sac it up and take their punishment like men. Never once have I seen them take the smallest amount of responsibility for their team's past. Only denial, outrage and blame.
Secondly, how do they figure that the infractions committed by Rabobank/Cofidis/CSC/_(insert team here)_ are comparable to those of Liberty Seguros/Astana, who have been busted two consecutive years and ousted from the Tour (not to mention Kashechkin busted shortly after the Tour)?
Third, they seem to think that if they repeat enough times that the team is "completely different" that it will somehow become true. In the interview Lance says "Astana 2008, aside from the sponsor, is certainly not anything like Astana 2007." Once again, he's conveniently forgotten that two thirds of the riders are also the same.
Secondly, how do they figure that the infractions committed by Rabobank/Cofidis/CSC/_(insert team here)_ are comparable to those of Liberty Seguros/Astana, who have been busted two consecutive years and ousted from the Tour (not to mention Kashechkin busted shortly after the Tour)?
Third, they seem to think that if they repeat enough times that the team is "completely different" that it will somehow become true. In the interview Lance says "Astana 2008, aside from the sponsor, is certainly not anything like Astana 2007." Once again, he's conveniently forgotten that two thirds of the riders are also the same.
Don't forget that the 07-08 Astana team were not the Liberty Segurus/Wurth/Astana team of 06 and older back to the 'Once' days. They were 2 complete different teams. The sponsor 'Astana' went from one team (Siaz) to the new Kazak team started up or initiated by Vino.huboon said:
Astana burnt themselves last year with 4 positive tests, 1 off which was a high profile positive during the TDF and another straight after the TDF. They burnt their bridge and have to rebuild it. It is still the same team regardless of a few new staff members.
I think it's a good thing that Astana get punished, it sets a precedent from this point on.
Something the UCI should have in place is a team suspension for multiple positives.
no, I think (not trying to be contrary)classic1 said:
that Marc Biver's company was the paying agent, thus the licence holder. Because Biver had to pay the back wages. And had the bank guarantee.
I might be wrong Classic1. Prepared to be wrong.
They had trouble, getting The Hog in, and Biver out, because Biver had the contracts and the licence, (again, from my impression).
Biver was Rominger's business manager and mentor, one of the first guys with Lemond's dad, to professionalise the sport. The sport was professional, but the back rooms and the money men.
Biver's firm was taken over by IMG, and Biver stayed on. When Rominger retired, he started up his own shop, although he may have worked with Biver for a period, and learnt the ropes. Then Rominger built his own shop/agency, think there is/was speculation Michelle Ferrari had an ownerhsip share.
IMG then bought out Rominger. Rominger then headed up the IMG cycling I believe, even tho I think Biver was there first, and it was his shop that was autonomous, but rebadged IMG.
Biver and Rominger were the heavy hitters in cycling, the third interest, with the ASO and UCI. There were power struggles, which eventuated in Operation Puerto, because the UCI were well aware of the chop shop Fuentes was running down in Madrid, for quite a while.
Again, I might have it wrong. Cyclingheroes? Classic?
thunder said:
Lance couldn't stick the boot into ASO or other teams too much knowing what we all know. Also after ASO gave him the microphone on the podium of his final Tour and allowed him to speak English and to rabbit on about "hard word", "true believers" etc etc. we know that he is full of ****.
As for the Astana connection. Its hardly a punishment for Bruyneel/Armstrong. At the beginning of last year Vino took a delegation and a presentation to ASO. He wanted to convince them that the ills and troubles with Liberty were not with Astana and that they were one clean team and rode for national pride not for doping glory. We all know what happened so there is no way ASO are going to have their fingers burnt again. Can you imagine how ASO would look if their was another positive ? or even a drug connection..... I wouldn't risk it. Not even for the defending champion.
I picked up a copy of ProCycling today which expanded on the original interview on the web. Firstly why the fark do they put Armstrong on the cover of the pre-Tour edition ? Haven't we got past this ?
Any one question that caught my eye in the Armstrong interview was the following:
ProCycling: Tom Danielson seemed like he had potential, but the injuries he's been dealing with haven't made it easy for him. Despite the team that Jonathan Vaughters is building, you can can't have a buckshot approach to see who's going to come out strongest come July...
Lance Armstrong: That's a dream, that kind of stuff. I'm all for dreaming, but the thing is, European bike racing is just so hard. It you're mentally or physically frazzled, you're not going to make it. And I'm not singling anybody out for being mentally or physically frazzled, but if you are you need to pick your races selectively. There are races over there for a guy like Tom Danielson - nobody climbs as fast as he does. I mean pick a Romandy or a really hilly race in Spain but they're not the Tour. The first week of the Tour is too tough and the long time trials are too tough. And the stress.... I mean God, just the stress of it!
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Some basically TommyD is a girl ? but I'm not singling anyone out.
Any one question that caught my eye in the Armstrong interview was the following:
ProCycling: Tom Danielson seemed like he had potential, but the injuries he's been dealing with haven't made it easy for him. Despite the team that Jonathan Vaughters is building, you can can't have a buckshot approach to see who's going to come out strongest come July...
Lance Armstrong: That's a dream, that kind of stuff. I'm all for dreaming, but the thing is, European bike racing is just so hard. It you're mentally or physically frazzled, you're not going to make it. And I'm not singling anybody out for being mentally or physically frazzled, but if you are you need to pick your races selectively. There are races over there for a guy like Tom Danielson - nobody climbs as fast as he does. I mean pick a Romandy or a really hilly race in Spain but they're not the Tour. The first week of the Tour is too tough and the long time trials are too tough. And the stress.... I mean God, just the stress of it!
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Some basically TommyD is a girl ? but I'm not singling anyone out.
Two reasons: first, because you teethgnashers can't stop talking about him.whiteboytrash said:
Second, due to the arbitrary idiocy of those who govern the sport and the media that covers it, they insist on dragging down anyone who has a modicum of success by banning them from events and throwing mud at their names solely for the sin of achievement. If you want Armstrong to stop being the face of cycling, then stop putting obstacles in the way of his most obvious successor on the basis of flimsy guilt by association.
See you again in awhile. I can't hang out in this miserable place for more than a few posts without gagging.
I thought I remembered you, although admittedly I had to double check. You're the dude who got totally pwned by Lim, Helmet and WBT on the 'its official - B sample positive, Landis confirmed a cheat' thread. Thanks for dropping in to say hello.rejobako said:
Dude, you have to lighten up a little and appreciate the total mind-fugging Armstrong performed on these posters over the years. The funny thing is they'll be laying in **** and **** on their death bed still whining and *****ing about him. Lance is enjoying the moment going through the Hollywood phonebook while these guys seek saftey in numbers in their anti-Armstrong circle jerk. It's all good entertainment - enjoy it.rejobako said:
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