Armstrong's front brake?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Steve Robertson, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. Tags:


  2. No, Hincapie doesn't look fat at all.
     
  3. On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:12:41 GMT, "Brian Phillips"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >No, Hincapie doesn't look fat at all.
    >

    ahh - the link did not work properly. Go down to the many photos of Armstrong to see the brake.
     
  4. steve robertson wrote:
    > Well, this has probably been pointed out here before. WTF is this:?
    >
    > http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04algarveSt4
    >
    > I don't read much into Armstrong winning that TT, the competition was not exactly top-notch - USPS
    > was the only D1 team who brought anything like an "A" team...
    >
    > But he certainly doesn't look fat.

    It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so. I became a hardware maven back in
    July of 1982 when Bicycling (almost worth reading back then) had a great comparo of 3 Italian steeds
    with Campy Super Record (De Rosa, Guerciotti, Rossin) with 3 Japanese high end bikes (Fuji, 3Rensho,
    Miyata). One of them was built with the Dura Ace AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They had these
    brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull. The whole Dura Ace AX component group was an attempt at
    building "aerodynamic" components (I don't know about the aerodynamics of most of the components,
    but the water bottles were pretty slick, and another item Lance has used from time to time). I once
    made a disparaging comment about their braking power, but someone chimed in to tell me that they
    worked rather well, despite their tiny pads.

    Lance has used them before, back in 2000, for his time trial bike.
     
  5. On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:46:37 -0500, Michael Zaharis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >
    >steve robertson wrote:
    >> Well, this has probably been pointed out here before. WTF is this:?
    >>
    >> http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04algarveSt4
    >>
    >> I don't read much into Armstrong winning that TT, the competition was not exactly top-notch -
    >> USPS was the only D1 team who brought anything like an "A" team...
    >>
    >> But he certainly doesn't look fat.
    >
    >
    >It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so. I became a hardware maven back in
    >July of 1982 when Bicycling (almost worth reading back then) had a great comparo of 3 Italian
    >steeds with Campy Super Record (De Rosa, Guerciotti, Rossin) with 3 Japanese high end bikes (Fuji,
    >3Rensho, Miyata). One of them was built with the Dura Ace AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They
    >had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull. The whole Dura Ace AX component group was an
    >attempt at building "aerodynamic" components (I don't know about the aerodynamics of most of the
    >components, but the water bottles were pretty slick, and another item Lance has used from time to
    >time). I once made a disparaging comment about their braking power, but someone chimed in to tell
    >me that they worked rather well, despite their tiny pads.

    Thanks - but unless they avoid some sort of aerodynamic noise at the fork, I would think that the
    current Shimano (and Campy) brakes are just as aerodynamic.

    I bring my bike from the early 80s out of the closet sometimes and I am amazed how I ever stopped
    with those brakes. It seems like the arms are bending when I pull - of course, they worked great at
    the time. The bike I first raced on in the early 70s had Mafac C-P brakes - you had to plan ahead
    with those suckers!
     
  6. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Michael Zaharis <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.
    <snipper>
    > They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.

    I only vaguely remember this brake; is it sort of similar to the Campy Delta?

    --
    tanx, Howard

    "We're not laughing -at- you, we're laughing -with- you..) "But... I'm not
    laughing???" Happiness

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  7. "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Michael Zaharis <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.
    > <snipper>
    > > They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.
    >
    > I only vaguely remember this brake; is it sort of similar to the Campy Delta?

    Sort of, but the cable's attached to a cam wedge that is free to float in two grooves in the brake
    arms. The arms have rollers in the top that ride along the cam wedge. No connected lever arms like
    the Deltas, so the mechanical advantage is a function of the wedge angle of the cam. You can pop the
    cable right out the front of the holder by the adjuster and the cam comes with it, letting the brake
    arms open very wide. No real quick release; I always ran mine so that I had enough adjuster threads
    available to open the brakes if needed.

    Interesting group; a lot of innovations in there. Loved the DD pedals, but I was one of the
    fortunate few not to have mine break off... ;-)
     
  8. nospam

    nospam Guest

    Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
    slightly instead of upwards?

    http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/photos/04algarveSt4-012000

    >> > It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.
    >> <snipper>
    >> > They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.
    >>
    >> I only vaguely remember this brake; is it sort of similar to the Campy Delta?
     
  9. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

  10. In article <[email protected]>,
    steve robertson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:46:37 -0500, Michael Zaharis <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > >steve robertson wrote:
    > >> Well, this has probably been pointed out here before. WTF is this:?
    > >>
    > >> http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/updateframesetcall?openform&04algarveSt4

    > >It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so.
    ...
    > >AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull.
    > >The whole Dura Ace AX component group was an attempt at building "aerodynamic" components (I
    > >don't know about the aerodynamics of most of the components, but the water bottles were pretty
    > >slick, and another item Lance has used from time to time). I once made a disparaging comment
    > >about their braking power, but someone chimed in to tell me that they worked rather well,
    > >despite their tiny pads.
    >
    > Thanks - but unless they avoid some sort of aerodynamic noise at the fork, I would think that the
    > current Shimano (and Campy) brakes are just as aerodynamic.

    Looking at the AX brake, I noticed it seems to be completely in the shadow of the front fork, while
    modern brakes seemed to stick out. A subtle point, but these TTs are won on subtleties.

    More to the point, is he really going to use a conventional helmet in the TdF?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  11. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Michael Zaharis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > It's an old Shimano Dura Ace AX front brake, circa 1982 or so. I became a hardware maven back in
    > July of 1982 when Bicycling (almost worth reading back then) had a great comparo of 3 Italian
    > steeds with Campy Super Record (De Rosa, Guerciotti, Rossin) with 3 Japanese high end bikes (Fuji,
    > 3Rensho, Miyata). One of them was built with the Dura Ace AX group - the Miyata, I believe. They
    > had these brakes, which were a sort of cam centerpull. The whole Dura Ace AX component group was
    > an attempt at building "aerodynamic" components (I don't know about the aerodynamics of most of
    > the components, but the water bottles were pretty slick, and another item Lance has used from time
    > to time). I once made a disparaging comment about their braking power, but someone chimed in to
    > tell me that they worked rather well, despite their tiny
    pads.

    Fuji and Miyata were never "high end" bikes but San Rensho always was on a level with DeRosa.
     
  12. Bvm

    Bvm Guest

    Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem anymore.

    On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:21:13 GMT, Dan Connelly <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:

    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
    >> slightly instead of upwards?
    >>
    >
    >Zuelle was doing that long before Ullrich. http://www.netby.dk/Oest/Jupitergade/Super/enkelt.htm
    >
    >Dan
     
  13. Ryan Cousineau wrote:
    > More to the point, is he really going to use a conventional helmet in the TdF?
    >
    >

    I'd be shocked if Giro didn't come up with something for him, even if it is nothing more than a vac-
    formed aero shell over an already-designed CPSC-certified foam helmet.
     
  14. Tom Kunich wrote:

    > "Michael Zaharis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > Fuji and Miyata were never "high end" bikes but San Rensho always was on a level with DeRosa.
    >
    >

    Well, Bicycling was doing a "Best of Japan" vs. "Best of Italy" comparo. The Fuji was equipped with
    Suntour Superbe (Pro?), and the Miyata (which was a tank - oh, sorry, "stiff") was equipped with
    Shimano Dura-Ace EX, so they were targeted for the near-top end of the market. I agree, both Fuji
    and Miyata were (and are) predominantly "entry level" enthusiast bikes, had some good stuff at the
    top end of their product line. Definitely not the cachet of the Italian bikes, but raceable stuff.

    The San Rensho bikes were pretty sweet, and Yoshi Konno could be very innovative. Too bad that he
    got injured so terribly, forcing him to retire.

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/konno.html
     
  15. Tom Kunich wrote:

    > "Michael Zaharis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Fuji and Miyata were never "high end" bikes but San Rensho always was on a level with DeRosa.
    >
    >
    >

    Well, Bicycling was doing a "Best of Japan" vs. "Best of Italy" comparo, and Fuji and Miyata were
    among the best in Japan at the time. The Fuji was equipped with Suntour Superbe (Pro?), and the
    Miyata (which was a tank - oh, sorry, "stiff") was equipped with Shimano Dura-Ace EX, so they were
    targeted for the near-top end of the market. I agree, both Fuji and Miyata were (and are)
    predominantly "entry level" enthusiast bikes, but they had some good stuff at the top end of their
    product line. Definitely not the cachet of the Italian bikes, but raceable stuff.

    The San Rensho bikes were pretty sweet, and Yoshi Konno could be very innovative. Too bad that he
    got injured so terribly, forcing him to retire.

    http://www.yellowjersey.org/konno.html
     
  16. Bruce Frech

    Bruce Frech Guest

    "BVM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
    > anymore.
    >

    The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown and
    nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the headtube.

    I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.

    Bruce

    > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:21:13 GMT, Dan Connelly <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:
    >
    > >[email protected] wrote:
    > >> Is Lance taking a page from Ullrich's TT positioning page and angling his TT bars downward so
    > >> slightly instead of upwards?
    > >>
    > >
    > >Zuelle was doing that long before Ullrich. http://www.netby.dk/Oest/Jupitergade/Super/enkelt.htm
    > >
    > >Dan
     
  17. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Bruce Frech wrote:
    > "BVM" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
    >>anymore.
    >>
    >
    >
    > The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown
    > and nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the
    > headtube.
    >
    > I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.
    >
    > Bruce
    >
    Send it to me, if you want.

    Dan
     
  18. Evan Evans

    Evan Evans Guest

    > Well, Bicycling was doing a "Best of Japan" vs. "Best of Italy" comparo,

    Having read the article, The Italian bikes had some flaws. The Guerciotti had some workmanship
    issues. The Derosa was the least stiff of the bunch. The Campy equipment didn't shift or stop as
    well as the Shimano or Suntour. The Japanese bikes performed better than expected in quality & ride
    issues. The Miyata was the same as the team bike used in Europe. Bottom line is that the Italian
    bikes had nothing on the Japanese bikes except for tradition ,history & a high price tag. As
    predicted in the article relying on tradition & history can be your downfall.
     
  19. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Bruce Frech wrote:
    > "BVM" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
    >>anymore.
    >>
    >
    >
    > The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown
    > and nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the
    > headtube.
    >
    > I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.
    >

    http://www.djconnel.com/cycling/brucefrechbike.html
     
  20. Clovis Lark

    Clovis Lark Guest

    Dan Connelly <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:
    > Bruce Frech wrote:
    >> "BVM" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>Why not just have TT bars rise up from the fork blades? Seems like you wouldn't need a stem
    >>>anymore.
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> The US Olympic team pursuit bikes for 1984 had just that. The stem was welded to the fork crown
    >> and nothing came out of the top of the headtube. So the stem was vertical and in front of the
    >> headtube.
    >>
    >> I have the bike that Dave Letteri rode that year but nowhere to post a photo.
    >>

    > http://www.djconnel.com/cycling/brucefrechbike.html

    Looks like an IU piece of shite to me...
     
Loading...
Loading...