Arrested on a bike? Let us know!

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc' started by TIME'S UP! (via Jym Dyer), Sep 1, 2004.

  1. =v= TIME'S UP! is interested in getting together folks who were
    arrested at Critical Mass or the Bike Blocs, plus anyone who was
    arrested while on a bike: food distributors, legal observers,
    medics, or just anyone caught in the excess of police activity
    over the last few days. (We've heard rumors of people being
    not cited but ARRESTED for rolling through red lights.)

    =v= We do not expect or want you to give us incriminating info
    that's best discussed only with your lawyer. We have pulled
    together a form to help us keep track of people, so you can
    download the PDF here:

    http://www.times-up.org/bnc/bike_legal_intake.pdf

    or stop by 49 East Houston to fill it out. We will have more
    information here on the TIME'S UP! website soon:

    http://www.times-up.org/

    <_Jym_>
     
    Tags:


  2. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    >> (We've heard rumors of people being not cited but
    >> ARRESTED for rolling through red lights.)

    > Perfectly legal.


    =v= Not according to the equal protection clause of the
    14th Amendment. Police can certainly make arrests, but
    they must do so to everyone, including those on foot and
    in driving cars. Not just bicyclists who look like they
    might be protesters.
    <_Jym_>
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    >On 01 Sep 2004 08:40:03 -0700, "TIME'S UP!" (via Jym Dyer)
    ><[email protected]> claims:
    >
    >>(We've heard rumors of people being
    >>not cited but ARRESTED for rolling through red lights.)

    >
    > Perfectly legal.


    If you have ID and no outstanding warrants, you should not be arrested.
    ---------------
    Alex
     
  4. Acamy Sfewy

    Acamy Sfewy Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:21:56 -0400, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]>
    > claims:
    >
    > >In article <[email protected]>,

    [email protected]
    > >says...
    > >
    > >>On 01 Sep 2004 08:40:03 -0700, "TIME'S UP!" (via Jym Dyer)
    > >><[email protected]> claims:
    > >>
    > >>>(We've heard rumors of people being
    > >>>not cited but ARRESTED for rolling through red lights.)
    > >>
    > >> Perfectly legal.

    > >
    > >If you have ID and no outstanding warrants, you should not be arrested.

    >
    > In a traffic stop with no huge protest going on, you are
    > correct. In the mass arrest situations facing the NYPD the last few
    > days, nope. Plasticuffs.


    They took the risk, and the leaders wanted the get arrested, that is why
    they are asking for dirt now, to make political poop out of it. Keep them in
    Jail, and give them a big fine too.
     
  5. Acamy Sfewy

    Acamy Sfewy Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 02 Sep 2004 11:20:17 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> claims:
    >
    > >>> (We've heard rumors of people being not cited but
    > >>> ARRESTED for rolling through red lights.)
    > >> Perfectly legal.

    > >
    > >=v= Not according to the equal protection clause of the
    > >14th Amendment. Police can certainly make arrests, but
    > >they must do so to everyone, including those on foot and
    > >in driving cars. Not just bicyclists who look like they
    > >might be protesters.
    > > <_Jym_>

    >
    > We were talking about the mass arrests of protesting cyclists.
    > I doubt that any of them got uniform traffic tickets at the scene, so
    > they got their "equal protection". The tactic used is to take everyone
    > into custody and sort it out when things calm down and police are
    > available in enough numbers to process the arrests.
    > Remember that a UTT is always only a summons or an invitation
    > to court, and is in lieu of arrest. If the officer has information
    > leading him or her to believe the violator will not show up in court,
    > he has to make an arrest. No ID, for example, which is common in
    > protest arrests.
    >
    >


    They took the risk, and the leaders wanted the get arrested, that is why
    they are asking for dirt now, to make political poop out of it. Keep them in
    Jail, and give them a big fine too.
     
  6. ben

    ben Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in
    <[email protected]>:

    >On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:21:56 -0400, Alex Rodriguez <[email protected]>
    >claims:
    >
    >>If you have ID and no outstanding warrants, you should not be arrested.

    >
    > In a traffic stop with no huge protest going on, you are
    >correct. In the mass arrest situations facing the NYPD the last few
    >days,


    You make it sound as if they had no control over the number of arrests, as
    if they were innocent victims of some preordained arrest schedule, almost as
    if they *were ordered* to make each and every arrest!

    > nope. Plasticuffs.
    > Good day. Or as John Kerry would say, bonjour.
    >
    >Ken (NY)
    >
    >"I'm an internationalist. I'd like to see our
    >troops dispersed through the world only at
    >the directive of the United Nations."


    That's right: international actions require international diplomacy. We
    have to treat our allies with respect.

    > -Senator John F. Kerry, Harvard Crimson 1970
    >
    >email:
    >http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm
    >
    >spammers can send mail to [email protected]
    >
     
  7. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    > = Ken [NY)

    > They were all released by Friday. Of course they are going to
    > get ACLU lawyers to sue the city. Which is fine, since the RNC
    > is over now.


    =v= Toxic conditions for both peaceful protesters and innocent
    bystanders are fine? Indiscriminate attacks on people for
    legally and peacefully exercising their civil rights are fine?

    =v= Your comments are unAmerican. Perhaps you would be happier
    living in a police state.
    <_Jym_>
     
  8. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    > You make it sound as if they had no control over the number of
    > arrests, as if they were innocent victims of some preordained
    > arrest schedule, almost as if they *were ordered* to make each
    > and every arrest!


    =v= "I was only following orders" was soundly judged as no
    defense back in 1945. Has this judgement been suspended for
    the New World Order? "Ken [NY)" seems to be celebrating that.

    =v= Just so we're clear about what the NYPD did:

    o Sent unmarked "scooter goons" into peaceful, law-abiding
    crowds. The _New_York_Times_ printed the police's claim
    that they "nudged" protesters, but they have been videotaped
    hitting and kicking people.

    o Blocked off areas and indiscriminately arrested everyone
    on a block or street. Typical tactic: surrounding them
    so that nobody could disperse, then giving an order to
    disperse, then arresting them all.

    o At bicycle events, arresting everyone in the area, including
    food delivery people and those walking on the sidewalk.
    Using boltcutters and other tools to steal every bicycle
    locked up in the area.

    o In addition to the indiscriminate mass arrests, targeted
    legal observers and medics for a block around and arresting
    them as well.

    <_Jym_>
     
  9. Jym Dyer wrote:
    >>You make it sound as if they had no control over the number of
    >>arrests, as if they were innocent victims of some preordained
    >>arrest schedule, almost as if they *were ordered* to make each
    >>and every arrest!

    >
    >
    > =v= "I was only following orders" was soundly judged as no
    > defense back in 1945. Has this judgement been suspended for
    > the New World Order? "Ken [NY)" seems to be celebrating that.


    Comparing getting arrested for disorderly conduct to mass murder is a
    little bit over the top, Jym, and frankly an insult to those of us who
    lost much of our families in the Holocaust.
    You demonstrated, knew (or should have known) that tensions were at a
    high level, invited arrest, then compare the police to the Gestapo.
    Get your legal help, and grow up!

    Steve Bornfeld (BTW, no supporter of the RNC)
     
  10. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    > Comparing getting arrested for disorderly conduct to mass
    > murder is a little bit over the top, Jym, and frankly an
    > insult to those of us who lost much of our families in the
    > Holocaust.


    =v= I made no such comparison, and frankly your non sequitur
    of a reply is needlessly inflammatory.

    =v= The Nuremberg Trials set a legal standard that rippled
    throughout the civilized world and have been applicable and
    applied from the upper levels of the military to the lowest
    levels of law enforcement. The standard has quite rightly
    been applied to uniformed perpetrators for abuses of human
    and civil rights which have (quite obviously) not approached
    the realm of those of the Holocaust.

    =v= None of this is exactly obscure news. Anyone familiar with
    civil rights history or who's even just taken an undergraduate
    course in ethics should be familiar with it.

    =v= That standard is one of the things we won in WWII. I'm
    not willing to give it up.

    > You demonstrated, knew (or should have known) that tensions
    > were at a high level, invited arrest, then compare the police
    > to the Gestapo. Get your legal help, and grow up!


    =v= Again, I made no such comparison. But here we see what
    you're really up to: just pulling in inflammatory remarks to
    spew pejoratives (and heading straight into Godwin territory).
    What's more, your "invited arrest" misrepresentation concocts
    a scenario that leads one to wonder whether you actually read
    read the message that you're putatively responding to.
    <_Jym_>
     
  11. Jym Dyer wrote:
    >>Comparing getting arrested for disorderly conduct to mass
    >>murder is a little bit over the top, Jym, and frankly an
    >>insult to those of us who lost much of our families in the
    >>Holocaust.

    >
    >
    > =v= I made no such comparison, and frankly your non sequitur
    > of a reply is needlessly inflammatory.


    Sure. Explain your use of the term "New World Order".
     
  12. Mitch Haley

    Mitch Haley Guest

    "Ken [NY)" wrote:

    > The "peaceful law-abiding crowd" was there without a
    > permit, unlike others that were not bothered.


    You think they need your (or anybody else's)
    permission to simply be on the public ways?

    Nazi is too good a word for you then.

    Mitch.
     
  13. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    "Ken [NY)" purports:

    > Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
    > at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
    > and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
    > hoping to be arrested.


    =v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
    or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
    talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
    unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
    were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
    protesting at all.

    =v= I know of one fire, conditions confusing, resulting in one
    PROVEN FRAUDULENT claim of injury by an NYPD officer. Shameful.

    > ... maybe they shouldn't have been breaking the law. Like
    > the mayor said, "it isn't Club Med."


    =v= Again: read for comprehension. Many arrested WERE NOT
    BREAKING THE LAW. Does "breaking" have too many syllables
    for you or something? Tell me, do you really think it's
    appropriate to do a mass sweep of sidewalks of people who
    may not even be protesting, and stuff them into a pen on
    oil, diesel soot, asbestos and PCBs? If so, what in God's
    name is wrong with you?

    =v= Crack dealers and violent offenders (or whom the police
    themselves referred to, revealingly, as "real prisoners")
    were treated better.

    =v= Bloomberg's "Club Med" remark will come back to haunt
    him. He's either clueless or lying, and neither is good.
    <_Jym_>
     
  14. Pupea

    Pupea Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 11 Sep 2004 09:21:37 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> claims:
    >
    > >"Ken [NY)" purports:
    > >
    > >> Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
    > >> at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
    > >> and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
    > >> hoping to be arrested.

    > >
    > >=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
    > >or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
    > >talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
    > >unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
    > >were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
    > >protesting at all.

    >
    > No protesting, eh?
    >
    > Bike protests. Join us in the streets of Manhattan to
    > celebrate a different vision of our city and public space.
    >
    > When: Sunday, August 29th, 11:00am
    > Where: Union Square Park South
    > (14th St near Broadway)
    >
    > A bike action in solidarity with UFPJ march:
    > http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
    > Meet earlier to discuss plans for our first Bike Bloc.
    >
    > Sure sounded like a protest to me! Unless you have a
    > convenient different meaning to "Bike protests".
    >
    >


    "Jym" organizes and starts shit, but will NEVER take responcability for any
    of it.
    The bicycles I saw did block an ambulance for about 15 min, and the police
    were completly right in arresting them.
    "Jym" will always deny, like he does with the death of that girl in 97 who
    was riding with CM.
     
  15. Pupea

    Pupea Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 11 Sep 2004 09:21:37 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> claims:
    >
    > >"Ken [NY)" purports:
    > >
    > >> Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
    > >> at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
    > >> and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
    > >> hoping to be arrested.

    > >
    > >=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
    > >or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
    > >talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
    > >unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
    > >were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
    > >protesting at all.

    >
    > No protesting, eh?
    >
    > Bike protests. Join us in the streets of Manhattan to
    > celebrate a different vision of our city and public space.
    >
    > When: Sunday, August 29th, 11:00am
    > Where: Union Square Park South
    > (14th St near Broadway)
    >
    > A bike action in solidarity with UFPJ march:
    > http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
    > Meet earlier to discuss plans for our first Bike Bloc.
    >
    > Sure sounded like a protest to me! Unless you have a
    > convenient different meaning to "Bike protests".
    >
    >


    "Jym" organizes and starts shit, but will NEVER take responcability for any
    of it.
    The bicycles I saw did block an ambulance for about 15 min, and the police
    were completly right in arresting them.
    "Jym" will always deny, like he does with the death of that girl in 97 who
    was riding with CM.
     
  16. Pupea

    Pupea Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 11 Sep 2004 09:21:37 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> claims:
    >
    > >"Ken [NY)" purports:
    > >
    > >> Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
    > >> at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
    > >> and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
    > >> hoping to be arrested.

    > >
    > >=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
    > >or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
    > >talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
    > >unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
    > >were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
    > >protesting at all.

    >
    > No protesting, eh?
    >
    > Bike protests. Join us in the streets of Manhattan to
    > celebrate a different vision of our city and public space.
    >
    > When: Sunday, August 29th, 11:00am
    > Where: Union Square Park South
    > (14th St near Broadway)
    >
    > A bike action in solidarity with UFPJ march:
    > http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
    > Meet earlier to discuss plans for our first Bike Bloc.
    >
    > Sure sounded like a protest to me! Unless you have a
    > convenient different meaning to "Bike protests".
    >
    >


    "Jym" organizes and starts shit, but will NEVER take responcability for any
    of it.
    The bicycles I saw did block an ambulance for about 15 min, and the police
    were completly right in arresting them.
    "Jym" will always deny, like he does with the death of that girl in 97 who
    was riding with CM.
     
  17. Pupea

    Pupea Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 11 Sep 2004 09:21:37 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> claims:
    >
    > >"Ken [NY)" purports:
    > >
    > >> Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
    > >> at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
    > >> and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
    > >> hoping to be arrested.

    > >
    > >=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
    > >or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
    > >talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
    > >unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
    > >were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
    > >protesting at all.

    >
    > No protesting, eh?
    >
    > Bike protests. Join us in the streets of Manhattan to
    > celebrate a different vision of our city and public space.
    >
    > When: Sunday, August 29th, 11:00am
    > Where: Union Square Park South
    > (14th St near Broadway)
    >
    > A bike action in solidarity with UFPJ march:
    > http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
    > Meet earlier to discuss plans for our first Bike Bloc.
    >
    > Sure sounded like a protest to me! Unless you have a
    > convenient different meaning to "Bike protests".
    >
    >


    "Jym" organizes and starts shit, but will NEVER take responcability for any
    of it.
    The bicycles I saw did block an ambulance for about 15 min, and the police
    were completly right in arresting them.
    "Jym" will always deny, like he does with the death of that girl in 97 who
    was riding with CM.
     
  18. Pupea

    Pupea Guest

    "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 11 Sep 2004 09:21:37 -0700, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> claims:
    >
    > >"Ken [NY)" purports:
    > >
    > >> Hours before, many of the same people were throwing garbage
    > >> at cops and Republicans, starting fires that injured people,
    > >> and many were protesting by lying down in the filthy gutter,
    > >> hoping to be arrested.

    > >
    > >=v= What evidence do you have that these were "the same people"
    > >or that fires (plural) injured people? None of the people I'm
    > >talking about here did any of that (as you must surely know,
    > >unless you are incapable of reading for comprehension); they
    > >were riding bikes, kissing, or simply walking on sidewalks not
    > >protesting at all.

    >
    > No protesting, eh?
    >
    > Bike protests. Join us in the streets of Manhattan to
    > celebrate a different vision of our city and public space.
    >
    > When: Sunday, August 29th, 11:00am
    > Where: Union Square Park South
    > (14th St near Broadway)
    >
    > A bike action in solidarity with UFPJ march:
    > http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
    > Meet earlier to discuss plans for our first Bike Bloc.
    >
    > Sure sounded like a protest to me! Unless you have a
    > convenient different meaning to "Bike protests".
    >
    >


    "Jym" organizes and starts shit, but will NEVER take responcability for any
    of it.
    The bicycles I saw did block an ambulance for about 15 min, and the police
    were completly right in arresting them.
    "Jym" will always deny, like he does with the death of that girl in 97 who
    was riding with CM.
     
  19. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    "Ken [NY)" once again demonstrates his inability
    to read for comprehension:

    > No protesting, eh?


    =v= I never said that. What I said, in small words that I
    mistakenly thought you were capable of comprehending, is that
    many (not all -- repeat -- not all) who were arrested were
    protesting, and also that many who were protesting were not
    breaking any laws.
    <_Jym_>
     
  20. Yora Isecha

    Yora Isecha Guest

    "Jym Dyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Ken [NY)" once again demonstrates his inability
    > to read for comprehension:
    >
    > > No protesting, eh?

    >
    > =v= I never said that. What I said, in small words that I
    > mistakenly thought you were capable of comprehending, is that
    > many (not all -- repeat -- not all) who were arrested were
    > protesting, and also that many who were protesting were not
    > breaking any laws.
    > <_Jym_>
    >


    Well, which way are you going to have it, Jym-boy?

    They WERE, or WERE NOT, breaking LAWS?

    Flip' a flopie, "Jym"bie -- urges others to get in trouble, then deny
    having anything to do with it.
     
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