Arrrrgghhh Aluminium

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Smudger, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. Smudger

    Smudger Guest

    Further on the carbon front.

    I've just done a pre-ride inspection on my Ridgeback Genesis Day 02 (the first aluminium frame I've
    ever bought) and is has a great big crack in the head tube!!

    Back it goes - and just after I've upgraded the whole thing!

    Back to steel for me next time.

    I'll let you know how I get on with getting a replacement frame from Ridgeback.
     
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  2. Pete Jones

    Pete Jones Guest

  3. Smudger

    Smudger Guest

    "Pete Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:40:04 -0000, "Smudger" <[email protected]> blathered:
    >
    > >I've just done a pre-ride inspection on my Ridgeback Genesis Day 02 (the first aluminium frame
    > >I've ever bought) and is has a great big crack in
    the
    > >head tube!!
    >
    > Last autumn - http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/bikes/scal-weld2.jpg
    >
    > The preceding spring - http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/bikes/super_crack.jpg
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm riding a steel frame again, too.
    >
    >
    > Pete
    > ----
    > http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/

    Blimey - and we were all worried about carbon!!!

    The RB GD2 has gone back to Ridgeback for a new frame. God knows what I'll get back. I'll
    let you know.

    Any Cycling Plus journos on this group - take note - there's an article here.
     
  4. [email protected] schreef ...
    > Further on the carbon front.
    >
    > I've just done a pre-ride inspection on my Ridgeback Genesis Day 02 (the first aluminium frame
    > I've ever bought) and is has a great big crack in the head tube!!
    >
    > Back it goes - and just after I've upgraded the whole thing!
    >
    > Back to steel for me next time.
    >
    > I'll let you know how I get on with getting a replacement frame from Ridgeback.

    With all due respect for your personal "loss": steel is not the answer, perhaps a better aluminium
    frame is. Or you just had a spell of bad luck. There is this urban legend about aluminium frames
    breaking (much) earlier than steel frames but that's exactly what it is: a legend. At least with
    nowadays' aluminium frames.

    --
    Regards, Marten
     
  5. Pete Jones

    Pete Jones Guest

    On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:26:01 +0100, Marten Hoffmann <[email protected]> blathered:

    >> I've just done a pre-ride inspection on my Ridgeback Genesis Day 02 (the first aluminium frame
    >> I've ever bought) and is has a great big crack in the head tube!!

    >> Back to steel for me next time.

    >With all due respect for your personal "loss": steel is not the answer, perhaps a better aluminium
    >frame is. Or you just had a spell of bad luck. There is this urban legend about aluminium frames
    >breaking (much) earlier than steel frames but that's exactly what it is: a legend. At least with
    >nowadays' aluminium frames.

    I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just gave
    up the ghost: cracked welds, belled headtube, mad creaking noises. How much better do they have to
    be? The £250 steel frame that preceded them lasted six years.

    Pete
    ----
    http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/
     
  6. Frank

    Frank Guest

    "Pete Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:26:01 +0100, Marten Hoffmann <[email protected]> blathered:
    >
    > >> I've just done a pre-ride inspection on my Ridgeback Genesis Day 02
    (the
    > >> first aluminium frame I've ever bought) and is has a great big crack in
    the
    > >> head tube!!
    >
    > >> Back to steel for me next time.
    >
    > >With all due respect for your personal "loss": steel is not the answer, perhaps a better
    > >aluminium frame is. Or you just had a spell of bad luck. There is this urban legend about
    > >aluminium frames breaking (much) earlier than steel frames but that's exactly what it is: a
    > >legend. At least with nowadays' aluminium frames.
    >
    > I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just
    > gave up the ghost: cracked welds, belled headtube, mad creaking noises. How much better do they
    > have to be? The £250 steel frame that preceded them lasted six years.
    >
    I've had an aluminium frame for years, I only realised it was aluminium a couple of days ago when I
    started wondering why it had a replaceable dropout :eek:(.
     
  7. Pete White

    Pete White Guest

    "Smudger" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Further on the carbon front.
    >
    > I've just done a pre-ride inspection on my Ridgeback Genesis Day 02 (the first aluminium frame
    > I've ever bought) and is has a great big crack in
    the
    > head tube!!
    >
    > Back it goes - and just after I've upgraded the whole thing!
    >
    > Back to steel for me next time.
    >
    > I'll let you know how I get on with getting a replacement frame from Ridgeback.

    As I've mentioned in a previous thread, I've just found a crack in my Aluminium Frame. Unlike yours
    (which appears to be a relatively new bike) I had the Peugeot for seven years, and did upwards of
    twenty-one thousand miles on it (not bad for a cheap bike...) I've done four thousand on my Trek
    road bike in its two year life (so far) which is also Aluminium. Maybe you were unlucky, and had a
    duff tube in your frame on an off-chance.

    Pete White
     
  8. Andy Welch

    Andy Welch Guest

    On 6-Mar-2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just
    > gave up the ghost: cracked welds, belled headtube, mad creaking noises. How much better do they
    > have to be? The £250 steel frame that preceded them lasted six years.

    But it's a fair bet that the steel frame was significantly heavier. Maybe not significantly enough
    to compensate for the breakages but I don't think we can really conclude that aluminium is
    necessarily going to break more often than steel. I'd guess that a 2Kg Al frame would last a fair
    while and a 1.2Kg steel one may not be the last frame you ever buy.

    Cheers,

    Andy
     
  9. Pete Jones

    Pete Jones Guest

    Disclaimer: the following applies to mountain bike frames; if you're mincing about on a road bike
    you'll be fine....

    >> I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just
    >> gave up the ghost: the £250 steel frame that preceded them lasted six years.
    >
    >But it's a fair bet that the steel frame was significantly heavier. Maybe not significantly enough
    >to compensate for the breakages but I don't think we can really conclude that aluminium is
    >necessarily going to break more often than steel. I'd guess that a 2Kg Al frame would last a fair
    >while and a 1.2Kg steel one may not be the last frame you ever buy.

    Orange Clockwork - maybe a pound heavier, max 1.5 lbs. And the only reason it broke after six years
    was because I put the front end in a hole at speed -
    http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/bikes/snap.jpg

    Is frame weight not relevant? In order to make the aluminium frames as durable you'd have to
    increase the weight.....which defeats the object of using aluminium in the first place - you end up
    with a harsh frame of a similar weight, that you can't fix/repair/alter.

    If you're selling a machine as a mountain bike, and it can't be ridden up and down mountains without
    breaking, then something's wrong.

    Pete
    ----
    http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/
     
  10. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Is frame weight not relevant? In order to make the aluminium frames as durable you'd have to
    > increase the weight.....which defeats the object of using aluminium in the first place

    Not necesarily - you end up with an aluminium frame that's heavier than a less durable aluminium
    frame, but still lighter than a steel frame of equivalent strength and durability.

    Have you found teh german fatigue test of frames on the web? A genuinely well thought out
    experimental examnination of bicycle frame durability ander control conditions. Guess what material
    all the frames that completed the test without failing were made of...

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
  11. Msa

    Msa Guest

    > I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just
    > gave up the ghost: cracked welds, belled headtube, mad creaking noises. How much better do they
    > have to be? The £250 steel frame that preceded them lasted six years.
    >
    >
    > Pete
    > ----
    > http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/

    Care to name the £500 POS frames?

    They weren't £100 bikes from the Kays catalogue with the payments spread over 15 years bumping the
    price up were they?

    --
    Mark
    ______________________________________

    "Just ask yourself: What would Scooby Doo?"
     
  12. [email protected] schreef ...

    > I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just
    > gave up the ghost: cracked welds, belled headtube, mad creaking noises. How much better do they
    > have to be? The £250 steel frame that preceded them lasted six years.

    Sounds impressive (in a negative way) but my bicycle dealer friends tell me there is no "structural"
    difference between aluminium and steel frames when it comes to breakages. And our aluminium 1994
    Cannondale tandem is still in one piece, despite years of (ab)use both on-road and off.

    --
    Regards, Marten
     
  13. Pete Jones

    Pete Jones Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:46:45 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith <[email protected]> blathered:

    >On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> Is frame weight not relevant? In order to make the aluminium frames as durable you'd have to
    >> increase the weight.....which defeats the object of using aluminium in the first place

    >Have you found teh german fatigue test of frames on the web?

    Do you think they're relevant to real world riding?

    A suggestion was made that aluminium frames breaking prematurely was urban myth. My own experiences
    suggest otherwise. Note that I make no nonsense claims re: the 'superior ride quality' of steel. The
    aluminium frmaes all rode well - they just didn't last very long....

    Pete
    ----
    http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/
     
  14. Pete Jones

    Pete Jones Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:24:40 +0000 (UTC), "MSA" <[email protected]> blathered:

    >> I've snapped three £500 aluminium frames in the last three years - not crash damage, they just
    >> gave up the ghost: cracked welds, belled headtube, mad creaking noises.

    >Care to name the £500 POS frames?

    Trek 8*00, Trek's top of the range hardtail.

    Two Gary Fisher Supercalibers, GF's top of the range hardtail.

    Now on a Klein Attitude. Rides very well, six weeks on it so far.

    Pete
    ----
    http://www.btinternet.com/~peteajones/
     
  15. Ian Smith

    Ian Smith Guest

    On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:46:45 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith <[email protected]> blathered:
    >
    > >On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Is frame weight not relevant? In order to make the aluminium frames as durable you'd have to
    > >> increase the weight.....which defeats the object of using aluminium in the first place
    >
    > >Have you found teh german fatigue test of frames on the web?
    >
    > Do you think they're relevant to real world riding?

    Yes. As I said, it's a well thought out test. The loading regime applied looks to be pretty good one
    to examine the real world performance of frames in controlled conditions.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|
     
  16. Web Stalker

    Web Stalker Guest

    "Ian Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > On Fri, 7 Mar 2003 19:46:45 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith <[email protected]> blathered:
    > >
    > > >On Fri, 7 Mar 2003, Pete Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Is frame weight not relevant? In order to make the aluminium frames as durable you'd have to
    > > >> increase the weight.....which defeats the object of using aluminium in the first place
    > >
    > > >Have you found teh german fatigue test of frames on the web?
    > >
    > > Do you think they're relevant to real world riding?
    >
    > Yes. As I said, it's a well thought out test. The loading regime applied looks to be pretty good
    > one to examine the real world performance of frames in controlled conditions.
    >
    > regards, Ian SMith
    > --
    > |\ /| no .sig
    > |o o|
    > |/ \|

    isn't alumium just notoriously hard to weld, and steel really easy....

    therefore the chance of an aluminium frame breaking (which from examples shown to me seems to only
    happen around the welds), is gonna be higher

    and also if mass produced aluminium frame are on the market the quality of the weld is going to be
    less, and possibly make the frame more liable to break around the weld....

    i remember the original Klein Attitude frames, which were £2500 before Terk bought them, with
    massive tubes and welds, which were filed down to make the join nice and smooth.... and the Pace
    frames using box section alumium tubes (£800 for frame alone)....do these ever break?
     
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