Article In the Sunday Mail - Driver Speaks out ( Jason MacIntyre )

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:23:26 +0000 someone who may be "Paul - ***"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>I agree he probably wasn't on the cycle path, but it's not
>beyond the realms of possibilities, and that's where the driver
>_thought_ he came from.

I think the best we can say is that's where the driver claims he
thought he came from.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

 

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-01-22, David Hansen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Another possibility is that the motorist saw the cyclist perfectly
> clearly and decided to turn anyway, for several possible "reasons"
> the most favourable being a thought that cyclists travel very
> slowly.

This is I think probably quite common: simple speed misjudgement. It's
happened to me several times, especially on fast sections of road (there
are several downhill sections on my route where achieving 30 mph isn't
even difficult).

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

 

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-01-22, JNugent <[email protected]> wrote:
>> What wreckage, what debris.
>
> The wreckage of the bicycle and its debris, plus debris dislodged from
> the pickup truck (dirt from the underside of the vehicle shaken loose
> by the impact, splinters of paint, etc.

Having been recently rammed off my bike by someone who failed to see me
(in broad daylight, on a straight road), there are plenty of immediately
visible bits of evidence.

You could see what part of the car had made contact with my bike, fresh
scrape marks were evident.
Fragments of bumper material and indicator glass were in the road at the
point of impact.
When the Police arrived, my bike hadn't been moved.

The police could quickly determine from the evidence at the scene that I
was, in fact, riding in the correct position and I was easily visible
for some time. It seems in this crash, from one of the photos in the
press, the police had coned off the road and not the cycle path - so
presumably the police were gathering evidence from the road surface and
not the cycle path surface.

Incidentally I've also been hit by a driver doing the same (pulling
across my path into a side road from the other direction). Had that
driver started their manoevre about a second earlier, I'd have hit their
rear near side. In the event my front wheel locked in my attempt to stop
and I sailed over the car (I remember looking in through the sunroof!)
Again, a bright day with excellent visibility on a straight piece of
road. Either the driver misjudged my speed (which was 28 mph just before
the crash) or didn't look.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

 

[Paul Boyd]

Dylan Smith said the following on 23/01/2008 12:53:

> road. Either the driver misjudged my speed (which was 28 mph just before
> the crash) or didn't look.

Does that mean that just before the crash you were looking at your
speedo instead of the traffic?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:53:50 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Dylan
Smith <[email protected]> wrote this:-

>You could see what part of the car had made contact with my bike, fresh
>scrape marks were evident.

Presumably that was the case here too, presuming that the energy of
the cyclist plus vehicle was converted into bending wheel and/or
frame so that something sharp came into contact with the van.

>Fragments of bumper material and indicator glass were in the road at the
>point of impact.

I doubt if this van has much in the way of bumpers and indicators on
its side.

>It seems in this crash, from one of the photos in the
>press, the police had coned off the road and not the cycle path - so
>presumably the police were gathering evidence from the road surface and
>not the cycle path surface.

That seems likely to me too.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

 

[Dylan Smith]

On 2008-01-23, Paul Boyd <usenet.is.worse@plusnet> wrote:
> Dylan Smith said the following on 23/01/2008 12:53:
>
>> road. Either the driver misjudged my speed (which was 28 mph just before
>> the crash) or didn't look.
>
> Does that mean that just before the crash you were looking at your
> speedo instead of the traffic?

No. I glanced at the speed as I left the bridge that connects Hayling
Island with the rest of England. The crash happened about 1/4 mile or so
later. Believe it or not, you can just glance at a speedo, and believe
it or not, you can quite easily tell if your speed has varied much. (I
was only going as fast as I was because there was a strong following
wind).

Just like drivers who claim that to follow the speed limit they would
have to constantly stare at the speedo are incompetent (after all, a
quick glance should just tell you what you already know from the speed
the scenery is going past, and the sound the car is making), you'd be a
pretty incompetent cyclist if you had to stare at the speedo to estimate
your speed over a stretch where your speed remained constant.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

 

[John Clayton]

"spindrift" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7dab14a6-f350-49f3-b281-1cd6d4dd3033@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> "Another possibility is that the motorist saw the cyclist perfectly
> clearly and decided to turn anyway,"
>
> Yes, I was thinking about this and about how often motorists misjudge
> the speed of an approaching cyclist:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chfYMHIfBzk
>
> I use tyreflies to give more depth and side-visibility.
>
> That's no excuse for terrible driving, though.


That snip of film is REALLY , truly frightening!
John

 

[Paul Boyd]

spindrift said the following on 22/01/2008 10:00:

> Yes, I was thinking about this and about how often motorists misjudge
> the speed of an approaching cyclist:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chfYMHIfBzk

Ouch - how on earth could that driver not see the cyclist, regardless of
the speed? Was the driver even indicating so that cyclist might at
least have had some warning of the intent to turn? It's not clear in the
clip.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[Paul Boyd]

spindrift said the following on 22/01/2008 10:00:

> Yes, I was thinking about this and about how often motorists misjudge
> the speed of an approaching cyclist:

The Mitusbish Colt one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM2y58pnZdk looks
like typical school run traffic - cars parked badly, cars driven badly.
Then the parents say "Oh, but it's too dangerous for little Johnny to
walk or cycle to school."

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

 

[David Martin]

Interesting developments. Listening to Radio Scotland this lunchtime
(Lesley Riddoch phone in), one of the contributors was a local friend
of Jasons. Apparently the cycle path is unusable by a road bike. It is
a shale surface in places and is also closed at various locations
along that road. She described the suggestion that he had been on the
cycle path as 'unthinkable' and none of the local roadies use it
because it is not fit for purpose.

Hmm..

...d

 

[dkahn400]

On Jan 25, 4:55 pm, David Martin <[email protected]>
wrote:
> She described the suggestion that he had been on the
> cycle path as 'unthinkable' and none of the local roadies use it
> because it is not fit for purpose.

Thanks for that information, David. It's beginning to look more and
more like the scenario most of us suspected because we are so
depressingly familiar with it. As soon as I read the Sunday Mail
article I thought it looked more like an unintentional admission of
liability than anything else.

--
Dave...

 

[Simon Brooke]

John Clayton wrote:

>
> "spindrift" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:7dab14a6-f350-49f3-b281-1cd6d4dd3033@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> "Another possibility is that the motorist saw the cyclist perfectly
>> clearly and decided to turn anyway,"
>>
>> Yes, I was thinking about this and about how often motorists misjudge
>> the speed of an approaching cyclist:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chfYMHIfBzk
>>
>> I use tyreflies to give more depth and side-visibility.
>>
>> That's no excuse for terrible driving, though.
>
> That snip of film is REALLY , truly frightening!

Does show the benefit of bike mounted cameras. There's not going to be much
argument about who was to blame there.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Do not sail on uphill water.
- Bill Lee