Article on kids' safety

[Matt O'Toole]

David Kerber wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>> David Kerber wrote:
>>
>>> Team sports have benefits other than the rare chance of getting a scholarship or making a living
>>> at them. Working as a team, working hard to achieve a goal, physical fitness, making friends
>>> beyond the crowd you normally hang out with, to name just a few.
>>
>> We can get all these benefits without building football stadiums.
>
> No doubt, but at many schools, the income from the football program supports the entire athletic
> department and all the other sports associated with it.

At a junior high school? Come on... We're not discussing universities here.

Matt O.

 

[Pete]

"David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote
>
> Tennis, volleyball, basketball, soccer, golf or swim team, anyone?

My HS had all of those. Plus lacrosse, wrestling, skiing, cross country, and several other
offbrand sports.

Curiously, they still retain most of those, and have consolidated the football team between the two
high schools in the district.

Pete

 

[Matt O'Toole]

David Kerber wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, luigi12081 @cox.net says...

>> Totally off-topic: when was the last time you saw a bunch of adults, of whichever gender, playing
>> a pickup game of baseball?
>
> Never baseball, but there are tons of adults, both men and women playing _softball_ in organized
> and semi-organized leagues, and occasional pickup games.

>> At the dawn of that particular national pastime, it was remarked that the game was something
>> grown men played and played spontaneously. Now, only children do it, and only in organized
>> leagues.

I notice pickup *basketball* games going on wherever there's a hoop. All ages, too. And where are
most of the hoops in any community? School yards...

> Don't you have any softball leagues around you?

In southern CA, softball has become so popular they can't build fields fast enough. Non- softball
players are starting to get miffed that what little public space is left seems to be turning into
softball fields! Many leagues are made up of office/company teams. Corporate sponsors offer money to
parks and rec. depts. to build the fields, which is hard for them to turn down -- whether it's a
fair use of public space or not.

Matt O.

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> David Kerber wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> >> David Kerber wrote:
> >>
> >>> Team sports have benefits other than the rare chance of getting a scholarship or making a
> >>> living at them. Working as a team, working hard to achieve a goal, physical fitness, making
> >>> friends beyond the crowd you normally hang out with, to name just a few.
> >>
> >> We can get all these benefits without building football stadiums.
> >
> > No doubt, but at many schools, the income from the football program supports the entire athletic
> > department and all the other sports associated with it.
>
> At a junior high school? Come on... We're not discussing universities here.

I was thinking of high school, actually.

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[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> "David Kerber" <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote
> >
> > Tennis, volleyball, basketball, soccer, golf or swim team, anyone?
>
> My HS had all of those. Plus lacrosse, wrestling, skiing, cross country, and several other
> offbrand sports.

We didn't have all of those I listed, though we did have wrestling, cross country and track; I was
just pointing out that many of those sports that various high schools have are ones which people
continue to participate in for most of their life.

...

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[Peter]

David Kerber wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Kevan@mouse- potato.com says...
>
>>On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:12:28 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from Posted via
>>Supernews, http://www.supernews.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Also, the school play and debate team are often harder to get onto than the sports teams are,
>>>because the numbers they can use are so limited.
>>
>>Unlike sports teams, I have never seen a person turned away from a school arts program for lack of
>>positions or even talent.
>
>
> I have. In my high school, they had more people trying out for the plays than they had room for.
> And at that school, they never turned anybody down who wanted to be on a sports team. The ones
> with little talent may not have played much, but they were allowed to be on the team.

Did they really turn kids away who wanted to help build the sets, run the audio and lighting cables,
help with costume design, etc.? Sure, for most plays there is competition and tryouts are held for
the key roles, but there are still lots of other positions to be filled by kids who want to be 'part
of the team.'

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:25:55 -0500, David Kerber
<ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:

>
>Don't you have any softball leagues around you?

I didn't say softball, didn't I? I said *baseball*. You know, the one with the little ball. where
you can do a bit of active baserunning.

Softball's a fine game in itself. But baseball--real honest baseball--is too good a game to
waste on kids.

And I wasn't talking about leagues, either. Why does it have to be a league? Why all the order?

I quit playing baseball halfway through high school because I just wasn't good enough, or so it
seemed everybody was set to tell me.

I went away to England for university, and found that I missed the game so much, I joined the then-
moribund baseball club. It was a motley bunch of guys: american graduate students, a canadian
here and there, Venezuelans, Mexicans. an ex Slovakian national baseball team player. A gaggle of
interested Brits who'd never played before. The extent of our activity would have made an
American sick with laughter--all we did was get together on Sundays and essentially play a pickup
game of baseball in the park (in practically any weather!). Occasionally, we'd play other clubs
like our own.

It was a blast!

Was the level of skill very high? no. Were any of us going to go to the big leagues any time soon?
no. But we weren't kids anymore--I was playing pickup ball with guys nearly as old as my dad--and we
were enjoying it. There was no shame, no fear, no pressure, no hard feelings. Just a ball game on a
Sunday afternoon, played as vigorously as skill might allow, and sometimes maybe a sociable beer
afterwards.

Now I'm back in the 'states, and I figure I'll never have that much fun playing baseball ever again--
because back here, everybody is so obsessed with the actual product, the quality of the baseball
being played. Back there, I was with a bunch of guys who were out there every sunday, even in the
cold of late winter and early spring, just because they missed the game they loved.

In baseball or in cycling, I prefer the company of people who just love to be there to the company
of people who are straining to be first. Maybe some day, I'm going to go certifiably mad, and just
start knocking on doors, up and down the street. "Hey, mister, we're having a ball game down at the
park, you wanna play?"

I wonder who'd come.

-Luigi

ghost man on second!

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, luigi12081 @cox.net says...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:25:55 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Don't you have any softball leagues around you?
>
> I didn't say softball, didn't I? I said *baseball*. You know, the one with the little ball. where
> you can do a bit of active baserunning.
>
> Softball's a fine game in itself. But baseball--real honest baseball--is too good a game to waste
> on kids.

The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a lower
skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.

> And I wasn't talking about leagues, either. Why does it have to be a league? Why all the order?

Have you ever been involved with an adult sports league? The vast majority of them have the absolute
minimum of structure they can get away with to get games scheduled. The whole reason people join
them is just to ensure they have somebody to play regularly, rather than the hassle of calling
around to see if they can get enough people together to have a game.

...

> Was the level of skill very high? no. Were any of us going to go to the big leagues any time soon?
> no. But we weren't kids anymore--I was playing pickup ball with guys nearly as old as my dad--and
> we were enjoying it. There was no shame, no fear, no pressure, no hard feelings. Just a ball game
> on a Sunday afternoon, played as vigorously as skill might allow, and sometimes maybe a sociable
> beer afterwards.
>
> Now I'm back in the 'states, and I figure I'll never have that much fun playing baseball ever again--
> because back here, everybody is so obsessed with the actual product, the quality of the baseball
> being played. Back there, I was with a bunch of guys who were out there every sunday, even in the
> cold of late winter and early spring, just because they missed the game they loved.
>
> In baseball or in cycling, I prefer the company of people who just love to be there to the company
> of people who are straining to be first. Maybe some day, I'm going to go certifiably mad, and just
> start knocking on doors, up and down the street. "Hey, mister, we're having a ball game down at
> the park, you wanna play?"

I've never been much of a baseball fan, so I don't have any experience with adult baseball. In other
sports, most of the people are exactly as you describe here: out to have fun in a sport they love. I
see it regularly in flag football, soccer, basketball and volleyball leagues.

>
> I wonder who'd come.

Probably more than you might expect. It would be a fun experiment.

....

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[David Kerber]

In article <Vpa_b.38066$Xp.171851@attbi_s54>, [email protected] says...
> David Kerber wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Kevan@mouse- potato.com says...
> >
> >>On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:12:28 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from Posted via
> >>Supernews, http://www.supernews.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Also, the school play and debate team are often harder to get onto than the sports teams are,
> >>>because the numbers they can use are so limited.
> >>
> >>Unlike sports teams, I have never seen a person turned away from a school arts program for lack
> >>of positions or even talent.
> >
> >
> > I have. In my high school, they had more people trying out for the plays than they had room for.
> > And at that school, they never turned anybody down who wanted to be on a sports team. The ones
> > with little talent may not have played much, but they were allowed to be on the team.
>
> Did they really turn kids away who wanted to help build the sets, run the audio and lighting
> cables, help with costume design, etc.? Sure, for most plays there is competition and tryouts are
> held for the key roles, but there are still lots of other positions to be filled by kids who want
> to be 'part of the team.'

I don't know for sure, but you're probably correct on that point.

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[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Zoot Katz <[email protected]> writes:
> Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:55:21 -0800, <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tom
> Keats) wrote:

> I got grounded for ridin' wrong way on a one way. Busted by a buddy's mom. We were both walkin'
> for a week. Didn't teach me anything. A head-on with a van did.
> . . . I hope.

I once accidentally hopped a freight to Coquitlam. I didn't mean to go that far, but getting off
those damn things is a lot different from getting on 'em. Especially when they're moving. Thank
goodness for discrete older brothers to the rescue!

I caught most supreme kaka when me 'n my childhood best buddy, Davey Rosemeyer, took a notion to
push his older sister's Morris Mini Minor around the block, taking turns pushing and steering. We
got it half way around, until it was uphill, both continuing on or doubling back. We had only one
option - to park it (right in front my mom's previous in-law's house) and disappear for the rest
of the day. We were 9 or 10 at the time. I don't think I've so much as touched a steering wheel
ever since.

cheers, Tom

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[point] bc [point] ca

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from
Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com wrote:

>The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
>lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.

Pitchers tire. And I can hit anyone.

--
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The most important thing is the thing most easily forgotten.
79

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber
<ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, luigi12081 @cox.net says...
>> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:25:55 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Don't you have any softball leagues around you?
>>
>> I didn't say softball, didn't I? I said *baseball*. You know, the one with the little ball. where
>> you can do a bit of active baserunning.
>>
>> Softball's a fine game in itself. But baseball--real honest baseball--is too good a game to waste
>> on kids.
>
>The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
>lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.

Softball is easily dominated by a pitcher. Rising curveballs are unnerving, no matter what the game.
All you have to do is put in an effort. I've seen some girls pitch wicked stuff.

A good infield is key, as well; the ball doesn't fly as far when hit, so you can really cut the run
and shut down a team that isn't hitting well just by being alert and getting the pop flies.

Baserunning in baseball is just too much fun, though. My favourite situation: runners at first and
third, no outs. put your faith in God and your baserunners and signal a double steal. Fortuna
fortes iuvabit.

I'm just looking for an honest game every once and a while. even if it means having ghost runners
and not enough fielders. (ahh...hustleball!). When I was a kid, we'd play with a broomstick and
whatever ball we could get a hold of. If you learn to hit with a broomstick you can hit anything.

Cycling content: does anyone have any suggestions as to how to carry a baseball equipment
bag on-bike?

-Luigi

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:51:43 -0600, Kevan Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from Posted via Supernews,
>http://www.supernews.com wrote:
>
>>The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
>>lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.
>
>Pitchers tire. And I can hit anyone.

I pick Kevin. Your pick, Dave.

=-Luigi

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:14:04 GMT, "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Don't you have any softball leagues around you?
>
>In southern CA, softball has become so popular they can't build fields fast enough. Non- softball
>players are starting to get miffed that what little public space is left seems to be turning into
>softball fields! Many leagues are made up of office/company teams. Corporate sponsors offer money
>to parks and rec. depts. to build the fields, which is hard for them to turn down -- whether it's a
>fair use of public space or not.

Filthy lucre again.

*sigh*

=-Luigi

>
>Matt O.

 

[Kevan Smith]

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:40:01 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> from
Cox Communications wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:51:43 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from Posted via
>>Supernews, http://www.supernews.com wrote:
>>
>>>The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
>>>lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.
>>
>>Pitchers tire. And I can hit anyone.
>
>I pick Kevin. Your pick, Dave.

Wooot! I'll bring the Endurox and seeds.

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[Kevan Smith]

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:35:20 -0500, Luigi de Guzman <[email protected]> from
Cox Communications wrote:

>Cycling content: does anyone have any suggestions as to how to carry a baseball equipment
>bag on-bike?

The big bag? Crosswise on a rack, bungied down.

--
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Don't be afraid of things because they're easy to do.
26

 

[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, Kevan@mouse- potato.com says...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from Posted via
> Supernews, http://www.supernews.com wrote:
>
> >The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
> >lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.
>
> Pitchers tire. And I can hit anyone.

Not me; I sometimes strike out in slow-pitch softball (not often, but occasionally) <Grin>.

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[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, luigi12081 @cox.net says...
> >> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:25:55 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Don't you have any softball leagues around you?
> >>
> >> I didn't say softball, didn't I? I said *baseball*. You know, the one with the little ball.
> >> where you can do a bit of active baserunning.
> >>
> >> Softball's a fine game in itself. But baseball--real honest baseball--is too good a game to
> >> waste on kids.
> >
> >The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
> >lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.
>
> Softball is easily dominated by a pitcher. Rising curveballs are unnerving, no matter what the
> game. All you have to do is put in an effort. I've seen some girls pitch wicked stuff.

I'm talking slow-pitch, which is what the vast majority of adult recreational leagues play. You're
right about fast-pitch, even more than baseball.

...

> I'm just looking for an honest game every once and a while. even if it means having ghost runners
> and not enough fielders. (ahh...hustleball!). When I was a kid, we'd play with a broomstick and
> whatever ball we could get a hold of. If you learn to hit with a broomstick you can hit anything.

We used to play with tennis balls.

> Cycling content: does anyone have any suggestions as to how to carry a baseball equipment bag
> on-bike?

A trailer?

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[David Kerber]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:51:43 -0600, Kevan Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:20:30 -0500, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net> from Posted via
> >Supernews, http://www.supernews.com wrote:
> >
> >>The problem with baseball is that it can be completely dominated by a pitcher, and people of a
> >>lower skill level may never even get the bat on the ball.
> >
> >Pitchers tire. And I can hit anyone.
>
> I pick Kevin. Your pick, Dave.

I'll pick the seat next to the keg <grin>.

>
> =-Luigi
>

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[Alexander Gilch]

>>>No doubt, but at many schools, the income from the football program
>>>> > supports the entire athletic department and all the other sports associated with it.
>>
>>> At a junior high school? Come on... We're not discussing universities here.
>
> I was thinking of high school, actually.

My 14-year old middle school child (who, BTW, did her first century at
12) plays for the high school JV softball team. The entire budget for the softball program for this
year was $800, of which $400 went for softballs. They rake and maintain their field themselves.
The bulk of the money seems to go to the boys' sports, and Title IX is ignored, as are questions
about the allocation of funds among the sports.

Alexander Gilchrist

>
>
> --