Ask Dr. Jude - Bacchetta AERO M5 Seat Question

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Truestorys, Jun 16, 2003.

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  1. Truestorys

    Truestorys Guest

    Dear Dr. Jude,

    I just received my Bacchetta AERO.

    And YIKES, is it ever a great bike!

    However, at about the 40-mile mark, my butt does start going to sleep on the M5 seat.

    I only have about 200 miles on the Aero and I'm in the process of finding that optimum seat
    position. I've read several post here where you recommend a 30-degree lean back.

    And as my butt was falling asleep for the third time I was thinking that X-eyed should just publish
    a chart to tell customers what angle the seat is in for each hole position of the bottom plate and
    lean back. This is a "Known" measurement for each sized Aero. Mines a medium.

    So I'm in the 5th hole from the front on the bottom Plate and 8th hole from the top on the
    seat stays.

    What angle is this Dr. Jude?

    Don
     
    Tags:


  2. Greetings, Your request is problematic. Here is why. Each AERO's seat plate is set for the X-Seam of
    the purchaser. This allows for adjustment within a given distance. If the seat plate was in the same
    position on every Aero then the angle of the combinations of plate hole selection and sprint stay
    tube hole would be the same on every bike. But since the placement varies so does the angle. This
    was true for last years AERO I'm not sure what they are doing now. I still think that they want an
    accurate x-seam to set the plate position. This years Aero has an new plate also and I have not seen
    one yet. I suggest that you do what I did. Get a large carpenters square/ protractor and a 3"
    carpenters level. I had the level, but I had to buy the protractor. I got a Stanley. About $20.You
    could probably borrow one from a carpenter or contractor. There are models that have a built in
    bubble level. I should have gotten one. It requires help, three hands, to line it up. If you took
    geometry you should be able to figure out how to determine the recline angle using the level and the
    protractor. Mine is at 30 degrees. It seems to give me enough "plant" for climbing and enough
    recline to be reasonably aerodynamic. I've never had "numb ass", dumb ass" often. My first M5 seat
    was on an early STRADA it was a medium and the recline was full pin on top, or no holes left. I had
    sore glutes which felt like numb ass but this went away. On the AERO I'm either three or four down
    (Aero is at shop) which means I could recline 3 or 4 more holes. I have no current butt pain
    problems. Although wife says I must since I'm such a pain...oh well. I will say that from what you
    say are your current settings 5 and
    8...you are likely much too upright. What did you ride prior to the AERO?
    --
    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Truestorys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Dear Dr. Jude,
    >
    > I just received my Bacchetta AERO.
    >
    > And YIKES, is it ever a great bike!
    >
    > However, at about the 40-mile mark, my butt does start going to sleep on the M5 seat.
    >
    > I only have about 200 miles on the Aero and I'm in the process of finding that optimum seat
    > position. I've read several post here where you recommend a 30-degree lean back.
    >
    > And as my butt was falling asleep for the third time I was thinking that X-eyed should just
    > publish a chart to tell customers what angle the seat is in for each hole position of the bottom
    > plate and lean back. This is a "Known" measurement for each sized Aero. Mines a medium.
    >
    > So I'm in the 5th hole from the front on the bottom Plate and 8th hole from the top on the
    > seat stays.
    >
    > What angle is this Dr. Jude?
    >
    > Don
     
  3. Truestorys

    Truestorys Guest

    "Jude T. McGloin" wrote in message ..
    > Greetings, Your request is problematic. Here is why. Each AERO's seat plate is set for the X-Seam
    > of the purchaser.

    Hey Thanks. I didn't know each was custom set for the rider.

    I just took a side view digital photo of the bike. Printed out the picture. Found my Level line and
    measured the angle to the seat. (with my eye) I dropped the bike into the 7 hole and now I think I'm
    pretty darn close to 30 degrees. As soon as I find a real protractor, I'll know for sure.

    >>What did you ride prior to the AERO?<<

    I rode a V-Rex for a couple of years. Moved on to a P-38 for a couple of years.

    About 6 weeks ago a recumbent friend whose judgement I trust, called foaming at the mouth, ranting
    and raving. God he wouldn't shut up. He was possessed. He had a new AERO!

    I had read here, on the news group, how people had claimed a 2 mph or more increase in speed with
    their AERO, but I always just chalked that up to new bike hype.

    Now my friend was calling claiming me with the same speed increase. He was elated. He said
    is was real!

    And REAL it is.

    Don
     
  4. Don, Coupla things to consider. Four things actually. Your lighter, more AERO, Fortezzas at 145 make
    you fly and the there is less power loss due to the stiff frame and the rigidity of the M5 seat. The
    cumlative effect is your faster. An AERO with a tailbox and disks would be very fast on the flats
    and possibly rolling hills. Draging it up a real hill...well that another story. I have a HED
    Disk/HED3 wheel combo and run a 12/23 or 11/25 on the flats. I switch to Spinergy Xaero Lites for
    climbing with an11/27. I put the new SRAM XO Deraileur and shifter on my AERO and can use a 11/32 if
    need be I whimp to it. I recommend cassette changes for the terrain. On totally flat courses with
    little more than an overpass contend with having closely spaced gearing for is necessary to maintain
    cadence in windy conditions. Ever ride into a stiff breeze and wish you had a gear in-between what
    you have. With a closely spaced cassette your chances of having it increase. I hate riding
    inefficently.
    --
    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Truestorys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Jude T. McGloin" wrote in message ..
    > > Greetings, Your request is problematic. Here is why. Each AERO's seat plate
    is
    > > set for the X-Seam of the purchaser.
    >
    > Hey Thanks. I didn't know each was custom set for the rider.
    >
    > I just took a side view digital photo of the bike. Printed out the picture. Found my Level
    > line and measured the angle to the seat. (with my eye) I dropped the bike into the 7 hole and
    > now I think I'm pretty darn close to 30 degrees. As soon as I find a real protractor, I'll
    > know for sure.
    >
    > >>What did you ride prior to the AERO?<<
    >
    > I rode a V-Rex for a couple of years. Moved on to a P-38 for a couple of years.
    >
    > About 6 weeks ago a recumbent friend whose judgement I trust, called foaming at the mouth, ranting
    > and raving. God he wouldn't shut up. He was possessed. He had a new AERO!
    >
    > I had read here, on the news group, how people had claimed a 2 mph or more increase in speed with
    > their AERO, but I always just chalked that up to new bike hype.
    >
    > Now my friend was calling claiming me with the same speed increase. He was elated. He said is
    > was real!
    >
    > And REAL it is.
    >
    > Don
     
  5. Joeg

    Joeg Guest

    Waitasec. I just bought my Aero off the floor from the dealer. Are you saying I should have ordered
    it, and had it delivered in a configuration based on my personal x-seam measurement?

    My dealer said nary a word about this; just took my credit card and gave me the bike.

    "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Greetings, Your request is problematic. Here is why. Each AERO's seat plate is set for the X-Seam
    > of the purchaser. This allows for adjustment within a given distance. If the seat plate was in the
    > same position on every Aero then the angle of the combinations of plate hole selection and sprint
    > stay tube hole would be the same on every bike. But since the placement varies
    so
    > does the angle. This was true for last years AERO I'm not sure what they
    are
    > doing now. I still think that they want an accurate x-seam to set the
    plate
    > position. This years Aero has an new plate also and I have not seen one
    yet.
    > I suggest that you do what I did. Get a large carpenters square/ protractor and a 3"
    > carpenters level. I had the level, but I had to buy
    the
    > protractor. I got a Stanley. About $20.You could probably borrow one from
    a
    > carpenter or contractor. There are models that have a built in bubble
    level.
    > I should have gotten one. It requires help, three hands, to line it up. If you took geometry you
    > should be able to figure out how to determine the recline angle using the level and the
    > protractor. Mine is at 30 degrees. It seems to give me enough "plant" for climbing and enough
    > recline to be reasonably aerodynamic. I've never had "numb ass", dumb ass" often. My first M5
    > seat was
    on
    > an early STRADA it was a medium and the recline was full pin on top, or no
    > holes left. I had sore glutes which felt like numb ass but this went away.
    > On the AERO I'm either three or four down (Aero is at shop) which
    means
    > I could recline 3 or 4 more holes. I have no current butt pain problems. Although wife says I must
    > since I'm such a pain...oh well. I will say that from what you say are your current settings 5 and
    > 8...you are likely much too upright. What did you ride prior to the AERO?
    > --
    > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
    > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Truestorys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Dear Dr. Jude,
    > >
    > > I just received my Bacchetta AERO.
    > >
    > > And YIKES, is it ever a great bike!
    > >
    > > However, at about the 40-mile mark, my butt does start going to sleep on the M5 seat.
    > >
    > > I only have about 200 miles on the Aero and I'm in the process of finding that optimum seat
    > > position. I've read several post here where you recommend a 30-degree lean back.
    > >
    > > And as my butt was falling asleep for the third time I was thinking that X-eyed should just
    > > publish a chart to tell customers what angle the seat is in for each hole position of the bottom
    > > plate and lean back. This is a "Known" measurement for each sized Aero. Mines a medium.
    > >
    > > So I'm in the 5th hole from the front on the bottom Plate and 8th hole from the top on the seat
    > > stays.
    > >
    > > What angle is this Dr. Jude?
    > >
    > > Don
     
  6. Joeg

    Joeg Guest

    'Totally flat courses?'. Pretty obvious we live in very terrain. I don't know anywhere around here
    (Seattle) with more than a couple of miles of flattish terrain; none of it truly flat.

    Jude, do you climb better on the Aero than a P-38?

    "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Don, Coupla things to consider. Four things actually. Your lighter, more AERO, Fortezzas at 145
    > make you fly and the there is less power loss due
    to
    > the stiff frame and the rigidity of the M5 seat. The cumlative effect is your faster. An AERO with
    > a tailbox and disks would be very fast on the flats
    and
    > possibly rolling hills. Draging it up a real hill...well that another
    story.
    > I have a HED Disk/HED3 wheel combo and run a 12/23 or 11/25 on the flats.
    I
    > switch to Spinergy Xaero Lites for climbing with an11/27. I put the new
    SRAM
    > XO Deraileur and shifter on my AERO and can use a 11/32 if need be I whimp to it. I recommend
    > cassette changes for the terrain. On totally flat
    courses
    > with little more than an overpass contend with having closely spaced
    gearing
    > for is necessary to maintain cadence in windy conditions. Ever ride into a stiff breeze and wish
    > you had a gear in-between what you have. With a closely spaced cassette your chances of having it
    > increase. I hate riding inefficently.
    > --
    > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
    > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Truestorys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Jude T. McGloin" wrote in message ..
    > > > Greetings, Your request is problematic. Here is why. Each AERO's seat
    plate
    > is
    > > > set for the X-Seam of the purchaser.
    > >
    > > Hey Thanks. I didn't know each was custom set for the rider.
    > >
    > > I just took a side view digital photo of the bike. Printed out the picture. Found my Level
    > > line and measured the angle to the seat. (with my eye) I dropped the bike into the 7 hole and
    > > now I think I'm pretty darn close to 30 degrees. As soon as I find a real protractor, I'll
    > > know for sure.
    > >
    > > >>What did you ride prior to the AERO?<<
    > >
    > > I rode a V-Rex for a couple of years. Moved on to a P-38 for a couple of years.
    > >
    > > About 6 weeks ago a recumbent friend whose judgement I trust, called foaming at the mouth,
    > > ranting and raving. God he wouldn't shut up. He was possessed. He had a new AERO!
    > >
    > > I had read here, on the news group, how people had claimed a 2 mph or more increase in speed
    > > with their AERO, but I always just chalked that up to new bike hype.
    > >
    > > Now my friend was calling claiming me with the same speed increase. He was elated. He said is
    > > was real!
    > >
    > > And REAL it is.
    > >
    > > Don
     
  7. Paul Bruneau

    Paul Bruneau Guest

    I'm really enjoying this thread about seat angle. I really like the look of the aero, but is it able
    to have USS?

    RCPINTO wrote:
    >> >>What did you ride prior to the AERO?<<
    >>
    >>I rode a V-Rex for a couple of years. Moved on to a P-38 for a couple of years.
    >>
    >>About 6 weeks ago a recumbent friend whose judgement I trust, called foaming at the mouth, ranting
    >>and raving. God he wouldn't shut up. He was possessed. He had a new AERO!
    >>
    >>I had read here, on the news group, how people had claimed a 2 mph or more increase in speed with
    >>their AERO, but I always just chalked that up to new bike hype.
    >>
    >>Now my friend was calling claiming me with the same speed increase. He was elated. He said is
    >>was real!
    >>
    >> And REAL it is.
    >>
    >> Don
    >
    >
    >
    > Hi Don
    >
    > I'm glad to see you are enjoying your Aero. I like the "foaming at the mouth, ranting and
    > raving comment" about your Aero customer friend! :<)
    >
    > Remember that getting used to the more layed back position is an acquired taste, but once you
    > get used to it, most find it hard to go back. My own progression on Aerocycles/Bacchetta
    > Aero's has taken me all the way down to 22 degrees on the M5 seat currently. The farther you
    > can lay back the seat the more pressure you will take off your butt, which will help power
    > production and comfort.
    >
    > The downside is below this angle, knees can start to pop out over the tops of the shoulders
    > during pedaling, increasing frontal area. Also the thigh/torso angle will start to open up and
    > reduce power production for many riders.
    >
    > Angles below this can also start to slide the rider up the seat during hard pedal thrusts,
    > and require using your arms isometrically to maintain pedal to seat distances...a waste of
    > time and energy IMO. Seats should oppose pedal thrusts, not tensed up arms!
    >
    > Anyway, have fun and experiment with your seat recline, 30 degrees is a good starting point.
    > You will feel a lot more adapted and get faster as you put the miles in!
    >
    > Thanks!
    >
    > Rich Pinto
    > Bacchetta Bicycles
    >
    > BTW...thanks Jude for all the good advice, I'm hoping to get down to the Eastern shore soon to
    > ride with you and Al !!
     
  8. Joe, Nope. I would only mention it if the one I had was not within the x-seam of the one I have. On
    any bent I look at the person on it and say great or you need an XL etc. I'd bet your AERO is just
    fine. The seat plate can be set anywhere on the main tube. Once its there it there. If I were to
    order an AERO for store stock, I would order it to fit and average persons x-seam.
    --
    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "JoeG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Waitasec. I just bought my Aero off the floor from the dealer. Are you saying I should have
    > ordered it, and had it delivered in a configuration based on my personal x-seam measurement?
    >
    > My dealer said nary a word about this; just took my credit card and gave
    me
    > the bike.
    >
    > "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Greetings, Your request is problematic. Here is why. Each AERO's seat plate
    is
    > > set for the X-Seam of the purchaser. This allows for adjustment within a given distance. If the
    > > seat plate was in the same position on every Aero then the angle of the combinations of plate
    > > hole selection and sprint
    stay
    > > tube hole would be the same on every bike. But since the placement
    varies
    > so
    > > does the angle. This was true for last years AERO I'm not sure what they
    > are
    > > doing now. I still think that they want an accurate x-seam to set the
    > plate
    > > position. This years Aero has an new plate also and I have not seen one
    > yet.
    > > I suggest that you do what I did. Get a large carpenters square/ protractor and a 3"
    > > carpenters level. I had the level, but I had to buy
    > the
    > > protractor. I got a Stanley. About $20.You could probably borrow one
    from
    > a
    > > carpenter or contractor. There are models that have a built in bubble
    > level.
    > > I should have gotten one. It requires help, three hands, to line it up.
    If
    > > you took geometry you should be able to figure out how to determine the recline angle using the
    > > level and the protractor. Mine is at 30 degrees. It seems to give me enough "plant" for climbing
    > > and enough recline to be reasonably aerodynamic. I've never had "numb ass", dumb ass" often. My
    > > first M5 seat
    was
    > on
    > > an early STRADA it was a medium and the recline was full pin on top, or
    no
    > > holes left. I had sore glutes which felt like numb ass but this went
    away.
    > > On the AERO I'm either three or four down (Aero is at shop) which
    > means
    > > I could recline 3 or 4 more holes. I have no current butt pain problems. Although wife says I
    > > must since I'm such a pain...oh well. I will say that from what you say are your current
    > > settings 5 and
    > > 8...you are likely much too upright. What did you ride prior to the AERO?
    > > --
    > > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
    > > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Truestorys" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Dear Dr. Jude,
    > > >
    > > > I just received my Bacchetta AERO.
    > > >
    > > > And YIKES, is it ever a great bike!
    > > >
    > > > However, at about the 40-mile mark, my butt does start going to sleep on the M5 seat.
    > > >
    > > > I only have about 200 miles on the Aero and I'm in the process of finding that optimum seat
    > > > position. I've read several post here where you recommend a 30-degree lean back.
    > > >
    > > > And as my butt was falling asleep for the third time I was thinking that X-eyed should just
    > > > publish a chart to tell customers what angle the seat is in for each hole position of the
    > > > bottom plate and lean back. This is a "Known" measurement for each sized Aero. Mines a medium.
    > > >
    > > > So I'm in the 5th hole from the front on the bottom Plate and 8th hole from the top on the
    > > > seat stays.
    > > >
    > > > What angle is this Dr. Jude?
    > > >
    > > > Don
    > >
    >
     
  9. Review Boy

    Review Boy Guest

    Hello All -

    OK, so here's a dumb question. When you say 22 degrees or 30 degrees, is that degrees from the
    horizontal or from the vertical?

    thanks

    "RCPINTO" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > ... My own progression on Aerocycles/Bacchetta Aero's has taken me all
    the way down to 22
    > degrees on the M5 seat currently.
     
  10. Paul Bruneau

    Paul Bruneau Guest

    Thank you Rich.

    RCPINTO wrote:
    >>I'm really enjoying this thread about seat angle. I really like the look of the aero, but is it
    >>able to have USS?
    >>
    >
    >
    > Hi Paul
    >
    > Sorry, but right now there are no plans to produce the bike in USS.
    >
    > Rich Pinto
    > Bacchetta Bicycles
     
  11. Review Boy

    Review Boy Guest

    Rich -

    Wow, 22 degress is LAID BACK!!

    Thanks, ReviewBoy

    "RCPINTO" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > It is measured across the edge of the seat on either side of the lumbar support with a straight
    > edge, and always from horizontal.
     
  12. Cbb

    Cbb Guest

    Last time I saw George Reynolds his T-Bone had an ~10 degeree seat angle. Ofcourse Sean Costin's
    Monkeyhand is probably even more laid back
    http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/racing2000/northbrook_kenosha_pictures_2000.htm but this is
    only a race bike.

    I ride with ~20degree seat on my Baron

    Craig

    "Review Boy" <review [email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Rich -
    >
    > Wow, 22 degress is LAID BACK!!
    >
    > Thanks, ReviewBoy
    >
    > "RCPINTO" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > It is measured across the edge of the seat on either side of the lumbar support with a
    > > straight edge, and always from horizontal.
     
  13. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

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