Assaulted by a paint ball gun...

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by TrekDedicated, Mar 27, 2006.

  1. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    Be specific...
    :D :D :D
     


  2. SkinnyRob

    SkinnyRob New Member

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    If there is no difference in Shimano or Campy components, then why arent the TdF riders riding on 105, or Veloce?

    Second, Id like you to explain to me how Newtons laws of physics dont apply to a bullet shot into the air, and how it will keep spinning, and wind and gravity wont affect it. Id like to see math as well to prove your "thesis"

    Thirdly, if you are correct (which you arent) I want you to show me one case where the shooter and the victim were within 300 feet of each other. 300 feet is a reasonable amount of drift for a bullet fired straight up.

    Finally, Id like you to explain how you expect a bullet to kill, when bullets are designed to fragment or expand, depending on the round at high velocity. In other words, how do you expect it to do its job at a much much lower velocity? Id like to see math with this one as well.

    Get back to your arm chair and internet browser, Ill be waiting, probably for a while:D :D :D

    And dont bother posting useless facts or rebuttal. I want to see actual cold hard evidence.
     
  3. free_rideman

    free_rideman New Member

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    double wow! :eek: :eek:

    Now I am starting to feel really bad for you. So much so, that I won't even bother explaining.

    But I will say something. Shimano and campy are both good companies. In that both products are nice! Another way of saying it yet again is: I like both. And no, there really is no difference between chorus and record, and maybe going as far as there being not too much difference between ultegra shifters and Dura Ace shifters.

    Now keeping what I said in mind, use your brain and think why the hell would I make fun of you in the first place, calling you stupid.
     
  4. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

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    Well you ought to know!

    (you must have realised you were setting yourself up for that one).
     
  5. SkinnyRob

    SkinnyRob New Member

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    Still cant face the fact that youre wrong? Youve been nothing but for this entire thread. There is a difference between ignorance and informed, and it usually involves knowledge, something you dont have of the subject at hand.
     
  6. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

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    As you claim to have a scientific background I assume you have been trained (poorly it seems) to use evidence and experiment to reach conclusions. If evidence arises that contradicts the original conclusions then a new hypothesis can be tested.

    If you ignore the overwhelming evidence there exists that support the idea that a falling bullet can kill go ahead. I have listened to what other posters have submitted to support their arguments and nothing has been submitted that does not support the hypothesis that a falling bullet can kill.

    Feel free to call me stupid or ignorant (which seems to be your way when you haven't been able to put forward a convincing argument) go ahead but it won't change that mountain of evidence (both theoretical and experimental) that I am right.

    Now I suggest you put away your superiority and stop patronsising people, there is some exciting bike racing to be enjoyed.

    Remember its no use getting angry with me, I am just the messenger.
     
  7. SkinnyRob

    SkinnyRob New Member

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    Youre generalizing again, you have to be specific when you say something like "falling bullets can kill", when, in fact the actual argument was about pullets fired straight up being able to kill. So, I will extend this same challenge to you:

    Unfortunately, I did this for 7 years, so I have far more background on anything firearms related than you do, not to mention I had a gun in my hand for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for almost 20 years. My training is obviously far beyond the scope of yours. As someone else said, its funny how only you and stevebaby are the ones pushing the issue, while everyone else is agreeing.

    Im not angry, I just think its funny, and also sad that you ignore the laws of physics, and actual, physical evidence placed right in front of you.
     
  8. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

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    You agree with me that muzzle velocity is greater than terminal speed when falling.

    You agree with me that a bullet will reach a terminal speed, depending on mass of the bullet, of around 50ms-1 for small calibre and rising with the calibre of the bullet.

    It seems the only point of contention here is whether the falling bullet has the energy to kill.

    Your claim to have great knowledge of firearms is not relevant. As are your continued attempts to divert the point of the argument. And you accuse me of generalisation when that is exactly how you started your argument.

    The argument was not over a bullet fired straight into the air. If you show me where I said that then I am happy to acknowledge that I am wrong. In fact I will be happy to acknowledge that I am wrong if you can point to any statement that I have made that is incorrect. People firing bullets into the air do not take time to aim them directly up.

    The reason I am being so stubborn on this one is that there is conclusive evidence to show that they kill and they have.

    If you need to have the last word go ahead.
     
  9. SkinnyRob

    SkinnyRob New Member

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    Ok, you asked for it.

    First post:

    Your response:

    So, yes, the argument was over a bullet fired straight into the air. I never argued the fact that a bullet maintaining its ballistic trajectory can kill, but you also have to realize that a bullet shot within +/- of 20 degrees vertical wont maintain enough spin at the top of the arc to maintain a ballistic trajectory. Wind, and gravity act too much against the bullet, and it starts to tumble on the way back down, rather than spin.

    I stated my point, with almost this exact same wording. A bullet that maintains ballistic trajectory can kill. A bullet fired straight up will tumble. Ive never wavered from this point, go back and re-read the thread if you want. Ive said this at least 20 times now.
     
  10. mattjf

    mattjf New Member

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    I thought I posted in this thread, but maybe I didn't.

    It's not worth reading the whole thread, so I'll just address the issue of whether it's going to fall at the same rate as if you shot it straight into the ground.

    If you look at conservation of energy and energy lost due to air friction, the velocity of the bullet when it hits the ground after being fired straight up is going to be less than the velocity if you fired straight down.

    It seems unlikely that the bullet would have enough kinetic energy to kill someone when it struck them after falling.

    -Matt
     
  11. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    That's about as likely as the rest of the gibberish that you posted.
    :D :D :D
     
  12. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    http://www.packing.org/community/general/thread/?thread=12922
    Packing.org | Gun talk | General | AT 9:00 Eastern on Discovery Channel (All United States)http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=03/11/24/2980551
    Infoshop News - Bullet fired during KKK ceremony hits participanthttp://nfttu.blogspot.com/2005/12/celebratory-gun-firing-good-idea-or.html
    Notes from the Technology Underground: Celebratory gun firing - good idea or not?
     
  13. SkinnyRob

    SkinnyRob New Member

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    Oh really? Maybe you should do a little research on the US Marines. They sleep with guns in hand, always ready.

    Also, Ill be accepting this as your failure to provide what I asked for, since I specifically said, dont bother to post unless youve got evidence, which you dont. That also means your argument is debunked.:D :D :D
     
  14. cucamelsmd15

    cucamelsmd15 New Member

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    Ive known a few Marines, a few who were deployed recently, and this is true. They teach it in basic training, so that soldier is always ready to fight.
     
  15. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    "This is my rifle,this is my gun..."
    Bullshit.
    :D :D :D
     
  16. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    "This is for shooting,this is for fun..."
    :D :D :D
     
  17. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    "24 hours a day,7days a week,for 20 years"
    You might have had your "gun" in your hand,wobbie,but it sure wasn't a rifle!
    :D :D :D
    Maybe it was a little pop-gun? :D
     
  18. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    So when are you going to explain how to fire a bullet exactly perpendicular to the Earth?
    You know quite well it is impossible.
    You have consistently backtracked and changed the subject as you have been proven wrong,as you were when you stated that a falling bullet cannot kill.How much of a generalisation is that?
    The fact is ...they can and there many,many confirmed reports of it happening.Certainly laws have been passed against the practice for the reason that firing a gun into the air is stupid,dangerous and irresponsible .
    You and cuckoo have been playing with your "guns" a bit too much.
    :D :D
     
  19. mitosis

    mitosis New Member

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    No, sorry, the original post about shooting in the air was by that most responsible of gun-toting cyclists, freerideman, a few posts earlier. I'm not sure he was suggesting anyone take aim. :rolleyes:
     
  20. SkinnyRob

    SkinnyRob New Member

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    Ill take this as your concession of your argument, as you have officially been proven wrong, and cant complete the simple things I asked.
     
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