Assistant Chief Constable thinks speeding is OK

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Danny Colyer, Jun 6, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    I thought I'd forward this quite shocking story that was posted to the Bristol Cycling Campaign
    mailing list today:

    > I happened to see the Daily Mail yesterday (5th June) and was horrified to see our own Assistant
    > Chief Constable, Steve Mortimore giving an interview to comment on a huge front page picture of a
    > mobile speed camera. The Mail alleged that the mobile speed camera, positioned somewhere in
    > Bristol, was flagrantly breaking the law by being parked half on the pavement and half on double
    > yellow lines and the cycle path. In fact it was clearly parked on the pavement and wasn't on
    > either the yellow lines or the cycle path. The pavement was by the side of a very busy dual
    > carriageway and didn't look to be exactly teeming with pedestrians. However this didn't stop the
    > Mail fulminating about how these police were breaking the law in order to catch innocent motorists
    > who happen to be driving a little bit too fast etc etc. Then they interviewed Mr Mortimore, who
    > joined in the rant and said he's be telling his officers to stop this harassment of motorists -
    > after all everyone broke the speed limit, he himself did it and it didn't warrant all this law
    > breaking by officers. You only needed to keep to the speed limit if you were somewhere where there
    > had been lots of accidents. I think Mr Mortimore deserves some response to his ideas about
    > speeding! Write to him at: steven.mortimore at
    avonandsomerset.police.uk
    > or PO Box 37, Valley Rd, Portishead, Bristol BS20 8QL

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
    Tags:


  2. I didn't read very far into that, but parking on the pavement is illegal, and laws should not be
    broken in order to enforce others unless absolutely necessary (i.e. someone is guaranteed to die if
    said laws aren't broken). In such cases exemptions are generally provided (though they're not
    flawless as the donor transport case shows).

    I'd have no problem with a fixed camera there mind (assuming the limit was sensible)
     
  3. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], Danny Colyer <[email protected]> typed:
    > I thought I'd forward this quite shocking story that was posted to the Bristol Cycling Campaign
    > mailing list today:
    >

    If you have ever had any dealings with the media you will know that any similarity between the story
    and actual events is purely coincidental. I would take any comments with a pinch of skepticism as
    the reporter will not have let the facts get in the way of a good story.

    OTOH the Police should not be breaking the law to enforce the law and it may be that any motorists
    could argue the case as a result.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
    Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
     
  4. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Tony Raven wrote:
    > If you have ever had any dealings with the media you will know that any similarity between the
    > story and actual events is purely coincidental. I would take any comments with a pinch of
    > skepticism as the reporter will not have let the facts get in the way of a good story.

    Oh, I'm well aware of that. And it was, after all, the Daily Mail.

    > OTOH the Police should not be breaking the law to enforce the law and it may be that any motorists
    > could argue the case as a result.

    I'd missed the word 'mobile' when reading it myself. I've never heard of a mobile speed camera. If
    it's something that's mounted on a car then fair enough, there's no excuse for parking it on the
    pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a stand then the positioning seems reasonable from the
    description, though of course I haven't seen the picture.

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
  5. "Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tony Raven wrote:
    > > If you have ever had any dealings with the media you will know that any similarity between the
    > > story and actual events is purely coincidental. I would take any comments with a pinch of
    > > skepticism as the reporter will not have let the facts get in the way of a good story.
    >
    > Oh, I'm well aware of that. And it was, after all, the Daily Mail.
    >
    > > OTOH the Police should not be breaking the law to enforce the law and it may be that any
    > > motorists could argue the case as a result.
    >
    > I'd missed the word 'mobile' when reading it myself. I've never heard of a mobile speed camera. If
    > it's something that's mounted on a car then fair enough, there's no excuse for parking it on the
    > pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a stand then the positioning seems reasonable from
    > the description, though of course I haven't seen the picture.
    >

    I would assume it means a van mounted camera, though there are 'portable' cameras which can be
    plugged into sites with pre-installed speed detecting strips (for want of a technical term).
     
  6. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], Danny Colyer <[email protected]> typed:
    >
    > I'd missed the word 'mobile' when reading it myself. I've never heard of a mobile speed camera. If
    > it's something that's mounted on a car then fair enough, there's no excuse for parking it on the
    > pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a stand then the positioning seems reasonable from
    > the description, though of course I haven't seen the picture.

    They seem to be cropping up a lot recently. You see a police estate car with the tailgate up sat on
    the roadside. As you get closer you can see the speed camera inside the back with operator.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
    Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
     
  7. M Series

    M Series Guest

    I passed a white high sided transit on the Sheffield Ring Road last week with surveillance
    equipment/speed detection equipment pointing out of the back window. It was parked on the pavement
    pointing to where the 30 mph zone started.

    "Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Tony Raven wrote:
    > > If you have ever had any dealings with the media you will know that any similarity between the
    > > story and actual events is purely coincidental. I would take any comments with a pinch of
    > > skepticism as the reporter will not have let the facts get in the way of a good story.
    >
    > Oh, I'm well aware of that. And it was, after all, the Daily Mail.
    >
    > > OTOH the Police should not be breaking the law to enforce the law and it may be that any
    > > motorists could argue the case as a result.
    >
    > I'd missed the word 'mobile' when reading it myself. I've never heard of a mobile speed camera. If
    > it's something that's mounted on a car then fair enough, there's no excuse for parking it on the
    > pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a stand then the positioning seems reasonable from
    > the description, though of course I haven't seen the picture.
    >
    > --
    > Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    > http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    > Thomas Paine
     
  8. Mike Gayler

    Mike Gayler Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> writed in news:[email protected]:

    > In news:[email protected], Danny Colyer <[email protected]> typed:
    >>
    >> I'd missed the word 'mobile' when reading it myself. I've never heard of a mobile speed camera.
    >> If it's something that's mounted on a car then fair enough, there's no excuse for parking it on
    >> the pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a stand then the positioning seems reasonable
    >> from the description, though of course I haven't seen the picture.
    >
    > They seem to be cropping up a lot recently. You see a police estate car with the tailgate up sat
    > on the roadside. As you get closer you can see the speed camera inside the back with operator.
    >
    Round here the mobile speed cameras are all in vans. The police estate cars with cameras are looking
    for other offences - they are linked to the DVLA computer (with what must be a bl**dy quick link)
    and pick up tax dodgers, and car registrations with offenders linked to them. The estate cars are
    always linked to a traffic unit further on down the road.

    Mike Leicester
     
  9. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    Re. mobile speed cameras:

    > They seem to be cropping up a lot recently. You see a police estate car with the tailgate up sat
    > on the roadside. As you get closer you can see
    the
    > speed camera inside the back with operator.

    We have a mobile unit in Leicester, basically a white Transit with a camera peeking through the rear
    window. It is fully marked as a police "Safety Team" vehicle and it's forthcoming areas of operation
    are published in the local rag. Naturally it's generated a lot of communication via the letters page
    from all viewpoints. One argument put forward is that it often is parked illegally on pavements
    causing outrage to those innocents not aware of their own speed who say the police should get their
    own act together. I agree. Leicester may well be the pavement parking capital of England so when
    plod set an example by not parking on the pavement they will then be in a position to pursue those
    others who do so, this should raise at least as much revenue as the cameras. (Don't you just wish
    you carried a camera sometimes. Yesterday I'd have got a good shot of someone driving along the
    pavement, no doubt many on uk.tosspot would claim the photo a fake as they resolutely deny this
    behaviour occurs :)

    Personally I think some use of the mobile camera doesn't achieve as much in terms of road safety as
    could be achieved if the resources were applied to traffic light cameras, running red lights in
    Leicester is now the norm and I always take care if I'm one of the first through green whether in my
    car, on my bike or walking. And I'm talking motor vehicles, including buses, not bicycles.

    The main artery my road leads onto is one of the hot-spots for trapping speeders with the mobile
    unit. It is noticable that the average speed of vehicles appears to have fallen since the unit
    has been in operation so to me it appears to be effective and I'd be only too happy to have
    permanent cameras there that had a reasonable tolerance to not upset too many people but would
    catch the cowboys sometimes doing >50 mph in what is a 30 limit. (And I have witnessed what
    appears to be racing).

    Morning rant over, Pete.
     
  10. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], Peter B <[email protected]> typed:
    >
    > The main artery my road leads onto is one of the hot-spots for trapping speeders with the mobile
    > unit. It is noticable that the average speed of vehicles appears to have fallen since the unit has
    > been in operation so to me it appears to be effective and I'd be only too happy to have permanent
    > cameras there that had a reasonable tolerance to not upset too many people but would catch the
    > cowboys sometimes doing >50 mph in what is a 30 limit. (And I have witnessed what appears to be
    > racing).
    >

    The reason it is having an effect is probably because it is mobile and not predictable. People get
    to know where the fixed cameras are and slow down just for that section. You can even get GPS
    warning units that download data daily from the internet on all fixed camera locations and give
    you an in-car count down to the next camera. Mobile cameras foil all that and keep people wary of
    their speed.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
    Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
     
  11. Dan Gregory

    Dan Gregory Guest

    "Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I've never heard of a mobile speed camera. If it's something that's mounted on a car then fair
    > enough, there's no excuse for parking it on the pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a
    > stand then the positioning seems reasonable from the description, though of course I haven't seen
    > the picture.
    The pix were on local news yesterday. The camera was in the back of a hatchback ... the vehicle was
    mostly on the pavement but also had wheels on the double yellow lines, and blocking part of the
    cycle lane! The officials remarks re speeding remind me of a working lunch a while back where only
    one person was drinking alcohol, as the conversation turned to drink driving he was the only one who
    could defend it. In fact in his other role as a magistrate he often let drivers off! All the best
    Dan Gregory
     
  12. Mike Gayler

    Mike Gayler Guest

    "Peter B" <[email protected]> writed in news:[email protected]:

    > One argument put forward is that it often is parked illegally on pavements causing outrage to
    > those innocents not aware of their own speed who say the police should get their own act together.
    > I agree. Leicester may well be the pavement parking capital of England so when plod set an example
    > by not parking on the pavement they will then be in a position to pursue those others who do so,
    > this should raise at least as much revenue as the cameras.

    Ah! Another Leicester Lad!

    The DVLA set up two 'conspicuously clamped' cars to publicise their tax dodging clampdown - just at
    the entrance to the Meridian 'Leisure' Park
    - aat the slip road leaving Lubbesthorpe Way (A563) - parked slap bank on the cycle route, for at
    least two weeks running earlier in the year. Calls to plod on 222 2222 produced a promise of
    'action', but guess what?

    Mike Leicester Forest East
     
  13. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Dan Gregory wrote:
    > The pix were on local news yesterday. The camera was in the back of a hatchback ... the vehicle
    > was mostly on the pavement but also had wheels on the double yellow lines, and blocking part of
    > the cycle lane!

    OK, Tony and Nathaniel were right then, parking on the pavement is inexcusable. It's still rather
    worrying to read a report of a senior police officer who allegedly believes that it is wrong to try
    and catch speeding motorists. Catching criminals is, after all, supposed to be his job.

    > The officials remarks re speeding remind me of a working lunch a while back where only one person
    > was drinking alcohol, as the conversation turned to drink driving he was the only one who could
    > defend it. In fact in his other role as a magistrate he often let drivers off!

    Er, yes, that's rather worrying as well.

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
  14. "Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > OK, Tony and Nathaniel were right then, parking on the pavement is inexcusable. It's still rather
    > worrying to read a report of a senior police officer who allegedly believes that it is wrong to
    > try and catch speeding motorists. Catching criminals is, after all, supposed to be his job.
    >

    To be fair, I expect the officer was misquoted, or quoted out of context. The report was from the
    Daily Wail, after all!
     
  15. "Dan Gregory" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    ....
    > The pix were on local news yesterday. The camera was in the back of a hatchback ... the vehicle
    > was mostly on the pavement but also had wheels
    on
    > the double yellow lines, and blocking part of the cycle lane!
    ...

    Definitely wrong. Committing offences (or what would be an offence if anyone else did it) to deter
    offences is not on. Particularly where it exposes cyclists to greater danger from the possible
    offence being monitored.

    Rich
     
  16. Taywood

    Taywood Guest

    >> I'd missed the word 'mobile' when reading it myself. I've never heard of a mobile speed camera.
    >> If it's something that's mounted on a car then fair enough, there's no excuse for parking it on
    >> the pavement. If it's mounted on top of a post or a stand then the positioning seems reasonable
    >> from the description, though of course I haven't seen the picture.
    >
    > They seem to be cropping up a lot recently. You see a police estate car with the tailgate up sat
    > on the roadside. As you get closer you can see the speed camera inside the back with operator.

    That seems a reasonable way to do their checks. Its better than the situation I found in Scotland
    last year. It was a quiet main road thru the suburbs, I was heading to the hills with the bike and
    was not speeding. A chap stepped out from round a corner and pointed a handgun at me, held in both
    hands feet apart. Talk about brown underpants!! I braked hard, undid the seatbelt and was about to
    leap out of the car when I saw round the corner behind him. There was a police car close to the wall
    and his mate in uniform wearing a yellow police jacket. I parked, walked back to them and visibly
    shaking explained the effect their stupidity was having on me. They were stroppy but I got a number
    off his collar and eventually got an apology from an Assistant Chief Constable. Mike
     
  17. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], Taywood <[email protected]> typed:
    > A chap stepped out from round a corner and pointed a handgun at me, held in both hands feet apart.
    > Talk about brown underpants!! I braked hard, undid the seatbelt and was about to leap out of the
    > car when I saw round the corner behind him.

    Had a friend in the US (NJ) who got off a speeding ticket by pleading in his defence that he was in
    an area he wasn't familiar with, saw a guy step out and drop a gun on him so he put his foot down
    and got the hell out of it as fast as he could. The Court empathised with him.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
    Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...