Astana-Kloden-Bruyneel-Contador the future

[whiteboytrash]

I have a question; The companies that produce these drugs ie EPO, steroids etc. for medical reasons... do they not check who is buying the stuff ? For example if Fuentes who was a registered gynaecologist is buying 6 tonnes of EPO wouldn't that raise alarm bells ? Why would he need it ? Unless EPO is an aphrodisiac in woman. Why do they not regulate the drug companies ?

I didn't mean to imply that I think we should go back to the "good old days" of doping, but I think that the organizations will put up a false front of dope controls. .......
The news yesterday documented a huge steroid raid all over the world. Someone's buying these drugs. It is so ingrained in all sports now. PGA golf just announced a "dope policy." [Am I the only one who has noticed the increased muscle mass on Tiger lately?]
I think you said it when you said "managable level." That's the key. And to be able to keep the doping sensationalism out of the media.
The way the things are now, the fan base has to be shrinking. I have a hard time believing that anyone new to the sport as a fan would be enjoying what is happening now.

But it still comes down to the fact the TDF is a entertainment sport. And it's not good for business when we know who won 2007 before we knew who won 2006. The fans want consistency. They want to know that their rider will be allowed to ride, and not be denied riding based on rumours.

 

[classic1]

I have a question; The companies that produce these drugs ie EPO, steroids etc. for medical reasons... do they not check who is buying the stuff ? For example if Fuentes who was a registered gynaecologist is buying 6 tonnes of EPO wouldn't that raise alarm bells ? Why would he need it ? Unless EPO is an aphrodisiac in woman. Why do they not regulate the drug companies ?

No they don't. They don't give a ****. Its all money. Its well known that in Italy that the majority of EPO use is as a PED, not for medical usage. As for Spain, until recently (and it may still be the case) you could get EPO over the counter from chemists.

 

[Wayne666]

I have a question; The companies that produce these drugs ie EPO, steroids etc. for medical reasons... do they not check who is buying the stuff ? For example if Fuentes who was a registered gynaecologist is buying 6 tonnes of EPO wouldn't that raise alarm bells ? Why would he need it ? Unless EPO is an aphrodisiac in woman. Why do they not regulate the drug companies ?

Why would it be the drug companies responsibility to monitor what is done with it's product?

I assume Spain have professional organizations and laws that monitor the behavior of their MDs. It is their responsibility to monitor the behavior of their MDs.

 

[wolfix]

No they don't. They don't give a ****. Its all money. Its well known that in Italy that the majority of EPO use is as a PED, not for medical usage. As for Spain, until recently (and it may still be the case) you could get EPO over the counter from chemists.

And China produces many of them for on-line sales . I know my local roid dealer [gym rats]makes several trips to Mexico . I doubt that Mexico and China really care who uses these things......

Frigo mentioned the "winning at all costs" concept. That is the problem we have in sports.
The "winning at all costs" thing is interesting. I used to have a team mate who was a very good road rider at the regional level. At the 5 mile to go mark on our group rides he would always jump and drop the rest of us....... 99% of the rides I was barely able to hold his wheel. And that was if he only wanted me too......... But one particular day I was able to hold his wheel in the last 5 miles. I actually pulled through a few times....... We dropped the rest of the group and as hard as he tried to drop me, he couldn't. He was frustrated. At the end we sprinted towards the road sign we normally went for. I cannot climb, I cannot time trial, but I feared few road riders in the sprint.As I cruised past the sign in front , my team mate yelled "next one.".. we went for that one....... The results again was the same. He then yelled "go for the stop sign!" The stop sign was at a intersection of a fairly busy 4 lane road. So I jumped with no intention of actually going for the sign....... he put his head down and actually went through the stop sign. He was willing to take the chance of getting hit by a car rather then lose a meaningless training ride sprint........... That day I realized I did not have what it took to win. Hard core competitors think differently then competitors that do it for enjoyment. And riders like this would dope if they thought they needed to keep up with the other competitors.
And there will always be a willing doctor to assist......... And sponsors who want to win........ And countries who have national pride on the line..........

 

[Klodifan]

I was reading on Cycling News and interview with Tony Rominger that seems to hint to Kloden staying and Bruyneel and Contador(who is also a Rominger client) joining Astana.

Although the remaining riders at Astana are very capable and keeping Kloden and adding Contador would form a formidable team, surely if ASO grants this team entry to Le Tour it would be a huge step backwards.

This is a team whose main rider Vino, humilated ASO with his drug induced performance. The team then didn't take notice of changing perception towards doping by clamping down on endemic drug use within its ranks shown through the subsequent test failing by Kashechkin.

ASO and UCI have to be very conscious that an Astana team with lead riders Kloden and Contador and at the helm directed by Bruyneel have a very good chance of winning Le Tour next year. This all occuring one year after the current disgrace and using a lead rider who is tainted by operation Puerto is certainly taking a step backwards.

I hope the powers that be show some steel balls in their actions for 2008.

If this pans out and Kloden stays at astana with JB and AC, I will have to change my name and avatar...

 

[plectrum]

This commercial marketing sentiment was brought to you by George J. Mitchell Disney-ESPN-ABC Chairman 2004-2007 and the MLB steroid auditor (no drug busts recorded)

Nothing will change, but the drugs will become more powerful, effective and records will be shattered.

Lance Pharmstrong's climbing times (watt per kilo) will become par for the 100th rider on GC.

Drugs are multiple billions in profits---just on athletes.

Drugged TV sporting actors are Billions more to Disney, Time Warner, GE, Viacom and NewsCorp.

Doping = profit

IOC = GE/NBC, the people who own the Olympics

Polyheme.boost, please could you respond to the thread title rather than just post what you want. I am not particualrly bothered about your views and welcome some of them but please do not hijack my thread when it would be just as easy to either make a contribution to it or if you want to have your own thread just click the New Thread button.

I look forward to a response about Astana etc please

Thank you....

 

[plectrum]

This commercial marketing sentiment was brought to you by George J. Mitchell Disney-ESPN-ABC Chairman 2004-2007 and the MLB steroid auditor (no drug busts recorded)

Nothing will change, but the drugs will become more powerful, effective and records will be shattered.

Lance Pharmstrong's climbing times (watt per kilo) will become par for the 100th rider on GC.

Drugs are multiple billions in profits---just on athletes.

Drugged TV sporting actors are Billions more to Disney, Time Warner, GE, Viacom and NewsCorp.

Doping = profit

IOC = GE/NBC, the people who own the Olympics

Also correct me if i am wrong but I don't feel that the Tour de France is overly concerned with Disney, NewsCorp, GE, Time Warner, NBC, IOC, ABC, etc.

There wa a much bigger issue over whether German TV would be broadcasting and god knows what would happen if Eurosport ever threatened to pull the plug.

Nike, I concede as even though they are not particularly involved in cycling due to their size and dominance they are in very sport and walk of life.

 

[Bro Deal]

Polyheme.boost, please could you respond to the thread title rather than just post what you want. I am not particualrly bothered about your views and welcome some of them but please do not hijack my thread when it would be just as easy to either make a contribution to it or if you want to have your own thread just click the New Thread button.

I look forward to a response about Astana etc please

Thank you....

Good luck. It is not in the nature of trolls to stay on topic. It is not in the nature of our troll to put together a firm response to anything.

 

[Bro Deal]

I have a question; The companies that produce these drugs ie EPO, steroids etc. for medical reasons... do they not check who is buying the stuff ? For example if Fuentes who was a registered gynaecologist is buying 6 tonnes of EPO wouldn't that raise alarm bells ? Why would he need it ? Unless EPO is an aphrodisiac in woman. Why do they not regulate the drug companies ?

I would think that the products go through a distributer, so the drug companies probably have no knowledge of who is using their products. For some classes of drugs, like narcotics, I think the U.S. feds have screening processes that red flag unusual activity. While a similar watch over PEDs could be done, it probably would not be very effective in today's environment since production facilities in China, India, and such operate freely and distribute through black market channels.

 

[Rolfrae]

Velo News reporting this as almost a done deal:

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13438.0.html

Is this team likely to get a ProTour license - not that it would guarantee them a Tour start. This will not be the old dirty Astana of 2007 and not because the riders are all riding clean but because Johan will have taught them how to appear to ride clean. Am I a cynic or is that the way it is? Any thoughts (not spam please)?

 

[wolfix]

Velo News reporting this as almost a done deal:

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13438.0.html

Is this team likely to get a ProTour license - not that it would guarantee them a Tour start. This will not be the old dirty Astana of 2007 and not because the riders are all riding clean but because Johan will have taught them how to appear to ride clean. Am I a cynic or is that the way it is? Any thoughts (not spam please)?

I'm sure JB will have this covered with both the UCI & the ASO before moving ahead.. Both organizations have allowed T-M to race. And if any team should have been banned it was them.
If JB goes to his new team and cleans the entire managment team out and replaces it with his,that will probably be good enough.
JB has only been haunted by allegations of systematic doping, never with any concrete evidence. He has the current TDF champ in Contador, one that both organizations have embraced.
Those oil rich sponsors will be a welcome sight when other sponsors have been dropping.

 

[Rolfrae]

I'm sure JB will have this covered with both the UCI & the ASO before moving ahead.. Both organizations have allowed T-M to race. And if any team should have been banned it was them.
If JB goes to his new team and cleans the entire managment team out and replaces it with his,that will probably be good enough.
JB has only been haunted by allegations of systematic doping, never with any concrete evidence. He has the current TDF champ in Contador, one that both organizations have embraced.
Those oil rich sponsors will be a welcome sight when other sponsors have been dropping.

I guess you're right. Why dump one rich sponsor when others are bailing. The problem is the UCI relying on teams to do the year-round blood testing. There need to be UCI controlled blood passports a la the French system. Johan is the man who refused to push for Puerto DNA tests and instead decided that Birillo wasn't implicated because he looked in his eyes and saw only truth. Looks like Basso will be riding in those god awful Astana colours when he makes his comeback then? Maybe Lance can make a comeback too? Can you imagine of he did? This forum would implode!

 

[earth_dweller]

I wonder if JB will have everything covered. Cos I assumed he did before he signed Basso and we all know how that turned out.

It seems that he was (still is) disconnected with the current mood/ambiance/power brokers in the sport. And he won't have Thom Weisel & co supporting him from now on.[size=-1] [/size]

 

[FriendlyFred]

Because I'm sick of any and all doping discussions, and because I haven't seen the information anywhere.....does any one know if Astana are staying with the BMC frames? I realize they may have new sponsors, but I hadn't heard anything about what frame they'll be riding.


thx
ff

 

[Leafer]

A spokeswoman for Astana is denying that Contador has been or will be offered a spot on the team:
"Astana spokeswoman Corinne Druey denied the report. "Astana cycling team 2007 did not and won't ask Alberto Contador to be a rider on the team next year," Druey said. "We're only seeing this in the media. ... The riders of the Astana cycling team don't know what their futures will be.""

 

[Wayne666]

I wonder if JB will have everything covered. Cos I assumed he did before he signed Basso and we all know how that turned out.

In all fairness, JB couldn't have known that Torre would take over at CONI and they would suddenly actually go after dopers rather than looking for any excuse to let them go on their way. Without Torre everyone would have been "tranquilo", Basso would have won the Giro & Tour and JB would still be the greatest DS of the modern era.

Hell he still won the Tour with a Fuentes' man, so maybe he still is the greatest DS of the modern era.

 

[Trev_S]

I can't remember where I saw it, but I read something about Trek sponsoring Astana.

I recall something similar but then I think it was a suggestion (or question) on a forum, probably in here



Sounds like some conflicting stories coming out of the Astana/Bruyneel scenario.

Bruyneel saying it will be a new Astana

Discovery Channel's outgoing director sportif Johann Bruyneel confirmed that he is near to signing a three-year deal to manage a "new Astana" team,

Does this mean a split? a little similar to the old Liberty Segurous/Astana Wurth split? or Bruyneel making a statement referring to a major upheaval in the existing squad. Out with the old in with the new, turning it into a pseudo ex disco team.

Bruyneel confirmed that his Tour stars Alberto Contador and Levi Leipheimer were in negotiations with the team, and added that four others will come as well - "[Benjamin] Noval, [Sergio] Paulinho, [Janus] Brajkovic and [Thomas] Vaitkus as well."

Now for the conflicting part.

The announcement by Bruyneel may, however, be premature as the Astana spokesperson Corinne Druey denied any such negotiations. "Astana cycling team 2007 did not and won't ask Alberto Contador to be a rider on the team next year," Druey told AP. "We're only seeing this in the media. ... The riders of the Astana cycling team don't know what their futures will be."

So at a guess part of the "negatiations" with Bruyneel must (or at least probably) be that the above listed ex-Disco crew are also signed as part of his contract terms.
So I guess that means some of the existing team would have to get the chop.
Astana would certainly want to keep some of their local riders, stands to reason they would want some Kazaks on the team. But others could be on shaky ground then.

 

[Crankyfeet]

I can't remember where I saw it, but I read something about Trek sponsoring Astana.

I told you his next username was going to be "Casa". Right Lim, I've got you on record now.

And the administrator/moderators needs to block all attempts, by these banned trolls to rejoin and to troll on this Forum.

I suppose we can give this highly coincidental and dubious choice of name a liitle time to show us perhaps that he/she is not House/Huis/Maison.

Oh and BTW folks, thanks for the kind words (except for JHuskey's sarcasm). I have to be honest that I've been sneaking round as a guest, just to see if Polyheme.boost makes a return.

Instead we get Huis first.

I was a little worried that everyone was leaving. Now if we can just get in touch with Bro. I'm sure if he's out there, he'll be watching the mod/admin reaction to the expected return of the Troll twins.

And I've found it is much easier to proclaim that you are going to leave the forum, than actually doing it. Its a bit like saying you're going to go mute for a year. Easier said than done.

 

[Cobblestones]

I read it in the news today. As it was written, the 'new' Astana team (whatever 'new' means here) is going to be just like the old Disco team. Noval and Paulinho are supposed to sign on and Leipheimer is expected to sign as well. If all that turns out to be true, I wonder what Kloeden is going to do. Will Astana have a license for next year, and if so, will they be invited to the grand tours? And is there anybody here on the forum who will claim that the 'new' Astana team is clean?

 

[Klodifan]

I read it in the news today. As it was written, the 'new' Astana team (whatever 'new' means here) is going to be just like the old Disco team. Noval and Paulinho are supposed to sign on and Leipheimer is expected to sign as well. If all that turns out to be true, I wonder what Kloeden is going to do. Will Astana have a license for next year, and if so, will they be invited to the grand tours? And is there anybody here on the forum who will claim that the 'new' Astana team is clean?

It certainly seems as if this new, proposed astana will merely be disco reincarnate. if kloden has any fire in his belly to win the tour, surely he will have to fight to get out of his current contract.

I wonder if CH has any info on this. Is the new team still plausible?