At 85% HR what would be optimum daily duration?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by wiredued, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    If you ride a trainer at a steady 85% HR and you do it daily how long should you go for optimum progress and recovery within 24 hours?
     
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  2. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    Isn't there anyone here that has experimented with there 85% daily limit?
     
  3. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    85% of what HR? Max HR? MSS HR? AeT HR?
     
  4. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    I'm sorry I meant 85% MAX Heart Rate

     
  5. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    OK... now may I ask what performance and physiologic adaptions you are trying to achieve by training at this effort day after day?
     
  6. tuney

    tuney New Member

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    I know this one. It's 2.3455732 minutes... well thereabouts. This is a scientific fact and apparently Armstrong uses this when training for the tour. I think he tapers for 3.14 days before racing, or maybe that’s something to do with his wheel circumference.

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. in.10.city

    in.10.city New Member

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    To be more accurate, he tapers for 3.1415926535897932384626433832795 days...
     
  8. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    I want to build my endurance base up efficiently without causing recovery time to be more than 24 hours. I also don't want to be riding the magnetic pain device any longer than necesary. I want to do this cardio routine on a daily basis maybe skip one day a week.

     
  9. dhk

    dhk New Member

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    I'd stay away from high-efforts (like 85% max HR) for building your daily aerobic endurance base. As you said, you want to fully recover every day, which is difficult if you're going anaerobic all the time.

    Suggest 30 minutes a day is plenty, with a 5 minutes warmup and cooldown. Start out at 60% max HR, then increase to the 65-75% range until you're ready for 5 min cooldown. Pick the gear to keep the cadence at 85-90 rpm.

    If you're HR is creeping up after 20 minutes to the top of the range, you can shift down a gear to keep up the cadence while dropping the HR.

    Make sure you know your max HR before you start. Assume you've either had a stress test, or done a good on the road test to determine it. The 220-age formula is usually way off (on the low side). Good luck with your fitness.
     
  10. NJK

    NJK New Member

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    It's difficult to say what 85% of MHR is for this particular cyclist without knowing his fitness levels. How do you know he is going anaerobic all the time at 85% MHR, its impossible to say. A well trained athlete might not use anaerobic respiration until 90% upwards.
     
  11. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    Thanks for the helpful reply I just cracked open a fitness book and you are right on the money. It said 20 minutes minimum to 40 minutes maximum 5 days a week and the sixth day isn't worth doing because gains in endurance become minimal. So I'll go easy on day six and skip day seven. About going anarobic .... do you mean oxygen debt? I don't think that is happening I feel like I could continue at this rate for a while and though I am breathing haevy I am getting enough air maybe my calculations are on the safe side. Is 85% supposed to put me into oxygen debt?

     
  12. Randybaker99

    Randybaker99 New Member

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    What exactly are you training for? A century, a 40K time trial, a 20 lap criterium, a 60 mile road race in hills or mountains, or a fast 30 mile club ride?

    Optimum training for each of the above would be different, especially the longer versus shorter distances and sprinting versus a steady pace.

    As usual, the more specific you are, the better the advice you'll get.
     
  13. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    I'm not training for anything specifically I'm just at the point now where I want the time on the trainer to be time well spent if I had to choose the most likely event it would be the club ride. Although I think I have a long way to go before I ride with the club from here my Dad tried riding with them and lost them by the time they got to the center of Ashby your from Medford you probably are familiar with them. I have rode with my Dad and he is in better shape than me his resting heart rate is 47 and he can climb like crazy he might have had a bad day but I'm in no rush to go with that group. I'll be skipping the training this morning my lower back is still killing me from shoveling that frozen stuff we got about a week ago.

     
  14. dhk

    dhk New Member

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    85% of your max HR is generally considered a good estimate of the point where we start going anaerobic and building up enough lactic acid in the blood to limit endurance. Well-trained riders may have this point higher, like 90% of max HR. You would need to be tested in a lab to determine your precise HR point vs blood lactate concentration, but 85% should be close enough for purposes of building your base.

    The point where you are aware of your breathing is another indicator that you are starting to go to hard. If you just keep the training effort moderate, but put in the daily rides and weekly totals consistently, believe you'll see real improvement out on the road in the spring.
     
  15. dhk

    dhk New Member

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    Yes, 85% of max HR is generally considered where we start going anaerobic, and building enough lactate acid in the blood to cause performance to become dropping over time. Highly-trained riders may push this level up around 90%. You could be tested in a lab, but that's not necessary for purposes of building base endurance.

    Another indicator on the trainer is your breathing. If you become aware of your breathing, you're at the point of going anaerobic and need to back off.

    Don't worry about any specific training or hard efforts at all; the key now is to put in your base miles/hours at an easy-to-moderate effort. If you do the sessions 5 days a week consistently, bet you'll see real improvement in your cycling ability in the spring.
     
  16. wiredued

    wiredued New Member

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    I think the fitness book lied a little I am finding 12 to 17 minutes to be optimal at 5 days a week if I just go at it like I'm in a race anaerobic breathing and all.

     
  17. Orange Fish

    Orange Fish New Member

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    Why would you want to ride at only that intensity on a daily basis? It may help you after only a couple of weeks, but then your body simply will not respond after that. Unless you're doing this for a specific reason, I'd say to consult a coach and to read up on periodization.
     
  18. dhk

    dhk New Member

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    I wish this would work, but if 12 to 17 minutes a day, at a hard "race" effort was all it took, we'd all be great riders. Unless you're training for only very short track sprint races, having a high power output for 15 minutes isn't going to be enough. For road events, you need real aerobic efficiency....the ability to cruise at a good speed for hours at a low HR, while still having enough energy reserves for a sprint finish.

    Your short routine might raise your VO2 max, but don't believe it's going to do much for building your aerobic energy systems. Try it for a month straight, then go out for a 30 mile group road ride and see what happens.

    The rule of "specificity" says that for your body to adapt to long road events and races, long distance training is going to be required. There is a reason Lance and the pro's do endurance rides of 4-6 hrs at 65% max HR or less, racking up 15-20,000 miles a year or more. Our top local club riders and racers are doing 8K miles year or more....about 30 miles/day average, 5-6 days a week.
     
  19. dot

    dot New Member

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    Once more time, the more time spent at 60-80% of MHR the better for "cardio". I just read a comment on one forum from one familiar runner. He trains with a specific program: 2 weeks in a row he works on power and speed with very low volume, then he spends a week working on "cardio". cardio training means volume at 135 beats/min.
    A couple of weeks ago he tried to do a very big "cardio" week. He achieved 21hrs/week (he did it on a specific trainer, I don't know how it looks and what is the name)! Then after recovery he retested himself with a step test. He found that av. HR decreased by 6-10 beats. Just after one week.
     
  20. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    suddenly, upping your volume (e.g. 21hr/wk) will virtually always result in having a lower HR. It doesn't mean that you are fitter. In general (for people that race) being fitter means producing more power over the duration(s) you're interested in -- this doesn't always tie in with a lower HR.

    Ric
     
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