Atkins' Diet

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Maleki, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. Maleki

    Maleki Guest

    I read somewhere human is the only "animal" that does not
    store vitamin c in his body. Elsewhere I remember I read
    something to the effect that this feature in human might've
    been the result of having eaten a lot of fruits in his diet,
    in some long period of his evolution, to the extent that the
    vitamin c levels in his body reached toxic level and killed
    off those who could store it and left only the ones who
    could not store it in the body.

    If the above picture is correct, then Atkins diet cannot be
    healthy based on the claim they make that it corresponds to
    what human has been eating most of the time during his
    evolution (before domestication of grains began). Fruits are
    missing in this diet. Anybody knows how the diet's advocates
    explain this?

    --

    tA parishAn nashavad kAr be sAmAn naresad
     
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  2. David Wright

    David Wright Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Maleki <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I read somewhere human is the only "animal" that does not
    >store vitamin c in his body. Elsewhere I remember I read
    >something to the effect that this feature in human might've
    >been the result of having eaten a lot of fruits in his
    >diet, in some long period of his evolution, to the extent
    >that the vitamin c levels in his body reached toxic level
    >and killed off those who could store it and left only the
    >ones who could not store it in the body.

    Dubious. I don't know about this "storage" business; we
    all can store some C in our bodies. Otherwise, we'd
    develop scurvy after a few days of no C in our diets. The
    whole point of vitamins is that they're substances we need
    but can't make for ourselves, and thus must get them from
    our diets.

    Humans are unusual among mammals in not being able to make
    our own C; guinea pigs and other primates also lack the
    ability. But many animals that can make C have much higher
    serum levels of it than we
    do.

    >If the above picture is correct, then Atkins diet cannot be
    >healthy based on the claim they make that it corresponds to
    >what human has been eating most of the time during his
    >evolution (before domestication of grains began). Fruits
    >are missing in this diet. Anybody knows how the diet's
    >advocates explain this?

    They can always take a multivitamin.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)
     
  3. Maleki <[email protected]> writes:

    >I read somewhere human is the only "animal" that does not
    >store vitamin c in his body. Elsewhere I remember I read
    >something to the effect that this feature in human might've
    >been the result of having eaten a lot of fruits in his
    >diet, in some long period of his evolution, to the extent
    >that the vitamin c levels in his body reached toxic level
    >and killed off those who could store it and left only the
    >ones who could not store it in the body.

    This is not how vitamin C metabolim works in those animals
    which do produce it, so it is very unlikely to have how it
    worked in those proto-humans who did produce it.

    >If the above picture is correct, then Atkins diet cannot be
    >healthy based on the claim they make that it corresponds to
    >what human has been eating most of the time during his
    >evolution (before domestication of grains began). Fruits
    >are missing in this diet. Anybody knows how the diet's
    >advocates explain this?

    Yes, they think you should a) find out about the Atkins
    diet, which *does* permit fruits, b) investigate food
    sources of vit C, which occurs widely in many foods,
    including vegetables and meats. Some seafood is particularly
    rich in C.

    There is a great deal of nonsense written in newspapers
    about the Atkins diet.

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
     
  4. Tadchem

    Tadchem Guest

    "David Wright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...

    <snip>

    > Humans are unusual among mammals in not being able to make
    > our own C; guinea pigs and other primates also lack the
    > ability. But many animals that can make C have much higher
    > serum levels of it than we
    > do.

    Primates are also unique among mammals for having
    trichromatic visual receptors.

    > >If the above picture is correct, then Atkins diet cannot
    > >be healthy based on the claim they make that it
    > >corresponds to what human has been eating most of the
    > >time during his evolution (before domestication of grains
    > >began). Fruits are missing in this diet. Anybody knows
    > >how the diet's advocates explain this?
    >
    > They can always take a multivitamin.

    Certain vegetables of the Solanaceae - tomatoes and peppers
    - also have a lot of Vitamin C - peppers in particular have
    more C than citrus fruits. Peppers are also a staple food of
    the US desert southwest, despite having once been declared a
    "poisonous plant" by some bureaucrat:

    http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Capsian.-
    htm

    Tom Davidson Richmond, VA
     
  5. Moriturimax

    Moriturimax Guest

    Maleki wrote:

    > If the above picture is correct, then . . .

    It wasn't correct.
     
  6. Maleki

    Maleki Guest

    On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:59:59 GMT, David Wright wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Maleki <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>I read somewhere human is the only "animal" that does not
    >>store vitamin c in his body. Elsewhere I remember I read
    >>something to the effect that this feature in human
    >>might've been the result of having eaten a lot of fruits
    >>in his diet, in some long period of his evolution, to the
    >>extent that the vitamin c levels in his body reached toxic
    >>level and killed off those who could store it and left
    >>only the ones who could not store it in the body.
    >
    > Dubious. I don't know about this "storage" business; we
    > all can store some C in our bodies. Otherwise, we'd
    > develop scurvy after a few days of no C in our diets. The
    > whole point of vitamins is that they're substances we need
    > but can't make for ourselves, and thus must get them from
    > our diets.
    >
    > Humans are unusual among mammals in not being able to make
    > our own C;

    If other apes can make their own needed C in their bodies,
    why human, being just another "ape", cannot? As I said,
    somewhere, in a book or news item and not a usenet post,
    someone claimed this was a clue to human's consumption of a
    lot of fruits daily to the effect of poisoning himself by
    vitamin C. Those who could make C in themeselves died out
    and the rest stayed around and we're the descendents.

    > guinea pigs and other primates also lack the ability. But
    > many animals that can make C have much higher serum levels
    > of it than we
    > do.
    >
    >>If the above picture is correct, then Atkins diet cannot
    >>be healthy based on the claim they make that it
    >>corresponds to what human has been eating most of the time
    >>during his evolution (before domestication of grains
    >>began). Fruits are missing in this diet. Anybody knows how
    >>the diet's advocates explain this?
    >
    > They can always take a multivitamin.
    >

    The point is not vitamin C. The point is human dependence on
    fruit consumption. One more time: If human consumption of
    fruits have been so regular and substantial that it has had
    evolutionary imprints on us (such as our inability to
    manufacture C in our bodies), then how can Atkins Diet
    proponents put the consumption of fruits aside without
    worrying about _other_ evolutionary imprints that
    consumption of large amounts of fruits has had in us?
    Imprints like a number of other dependencies on fruits known
    and unknown to us at this point.

    If we stop eating fruits, we may lose much more than what a
    "multivitamin" can provide. How do the Atkins' Diet freaks
    explain this?

    --

    sagi ke pArs koneh nemigireh.
     
  7. Maleki

    Maleki Guest

    On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:09:06 +0000 (UTC), Chris Malcolm
    wrote:

    > Yes, they think you should a) find out about the Atkins
    > diet, which *does* permit fruits,

    It limits carbohydrate consumption to under 20 mg a day.
    If human is carved to eat a lot of fruits daily (for
    _other_ reasons than vitamin C)how can he keep himself
    below that limit?

    > b) investigate food sources of vit C, which occurs widely
    > in many foods, including vegetables and meats. Some
    > seafood is particularly rich in C.
    >

    Nobody is talking about vitamin C. I brought the vitamin C
    matter as a clue to human dependence on consumption of
    fruits for other sources and not necessarily vitamin C.

    > There is a great deal of nonsense written in newspapers
    > about the Atkins diet.

    I don't read them. And I'm not talking nonsense.

    --

    kur kuro peydA mikoneh Ab chAlaro.
     
  8. Atkins diet works because a high protein diet makes you
    *feel* full with having eaten less calories than if
    you'd stuffed yourself with calorific equivalent of
    apples and cabbage.

    That's it.

    Apparently.

    "Maleki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... <...>
    >
    > If we stop eating fruits, we may lose much more than what
    > a "multivitamin" can provide. How do the Atkins' Diet
    > freaks explain this?
    >

    They don't have to. We (so-called civilised Westerners)
    opted out of the gene pool a long time ago.

    Steve.
     
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