Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Tcomeau, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows

    http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199

    Interesting quote:
    ------------------------
    Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed us
    a diet that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never recommended it before this, and I
    certainly wouldn't start anybody on it now.''
    -----------------------

    Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?

    Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the American Dietetic Association; Associate
    Professor of Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY. Scientific advisor to
    Kidnetic.com, which is funded through the International Food Information Council Foundation (IFIC)
    by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company, Kellogg Company,
    Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association, Procter & Gamble,
    PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the Snack Food Association.
    (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed 11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory
    board for the American Council for Fitness and Nutrition. (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html;
    accessed 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness expert in an article on weight-loss
    strategies.
    (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
    accessed 11/12

    The vultures are circling.....

    TC
     
    Tags:


  2. Tintinet

    Tintinet Guest

  3. Hua Kul

    Hua Kul Guest

    [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    >
    > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    >
    > Interesting quote:
    > ------------------------
    > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed
    > us a diet that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never recommended it before this, and I
    > certainly wouldn't start anybody on it now.''
    > -----------------------
    >
    > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
    >
    > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the American Dietetic Association; Associate
    > Professor of Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY. Scientific advisor to
    > Kidnetic.com, which is funded through the International Food Information Council Foundation (IFIC)
    > by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company, Kellogg Company,
    > Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association, Procter &
    > Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the Snack Food Association.
    > (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed 11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory
    > board for the American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
    > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness
    > expert in an article on weight-loss strategies.
    > (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
    > accessed 11/12
    >
    > The vultures are circling.....
    >
    > TC

    TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover these connections. Keep up the good work and
    thank you for keeping us so well informed.

    --Hua Kul [email protected]
     
  4. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

  5. tintinet wrote:
    > [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote:
    >
    >>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    >>
    >>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    >
    > At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.

    25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And he had a history of heart disease and
    high blood pressure. Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem to be a lot. Nine
    pounds a day?

    --Jeff

    --
    Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's how we pass the day away, in the merry
    old land of Oz.
     
  6. Robert Klute

    Robert Klute Guest

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:19 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >tintinet wrote:
    >> [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote:
    >>
    >>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    >>>
    >>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    >>
    >> At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
    >
    >25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And he had a history of heart disease and
    >high blood pressure. Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem to be a lot.
    >Nine pounds a day?

    7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than 5 oz. per hour.
     
  7. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    [email protected] (Hua Kul) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    > >
    > > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    > >
    > > Interesting quote:
    > > ------------------------
    > > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed
    > > us a diet that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never recommended it before this, and
    > > I certainly wouldn't start anybody on it now.''
    > > -----------------------
    > >
    > > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
    > >
    > > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the American Dietetic Association; Associate
    > > Professor of Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY. Scientific advisor to
    > > Kidnetic.com, which is funded through the International Food Information Council Foundation
    > > (IFIC) by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company, Kellogg
    > > Company, Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association,
    > > Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the Snack Food Association.
    > > (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed 11/12/03) Member of the expert
    > > advisory board for the American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
    > > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness
    > > expert in an article on weight-loss strategies.
    > > (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
    > > accessed 11/12
    > >
    > > The vultures are circling.....
    > >
    > > TC
    >
    > TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover these connections. Keep up the good work
    > and thank you for keeping us so well informed.
    >
    > --Hua Kul [email protected]

    Thanks Hua. I'm getting more and more po'd at these "scientists". I've almost at the point where I'm
    going to start documenting this crap and create a website. If I do that I might as well carry it
    thru to a book. Expose all these greedy bastards.

    TC
     
  8. Moosh:)

    Moosh:) Guest

    On 12 Feb 2004 18:31:51 -0800, [email protected] (tcomeau) posted:

    >[email protected] (Hua Kul) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote in message
    >> news:<[email protected]>...
    >> > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    >> >
    >> > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    >> >
    >> > Interesting quote:
    >> > ------------------------
    >> > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-
    >> > fed us a diet that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never recommended it before this,
    >> > and I certainly wouldn't start anybody on it now.''
    >> > -----------------------
    >> >
    >> > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
    >> >
    >> > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the American Dietetic Association; Associate
    >> > Professor of Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY. Scientific advisor to
    >> > Kidnetic.com, which is funded through the International Food Information Council Foundation
    >> > (IFIC) by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company, Kellogg
    >> > Company, Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association,
    >> > Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the Snack Food Association.
    >> > (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed 11/12/03) Member of the expert
    >> > advisory board for the American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
    >> > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total
    >> > Fitness expert in an article on weight-loss strategies.
    >> > (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
    >> > accessed 11/12
    >> >
    >> > The vultures are circling.....
    >> >
    >> > TC
    >>
    >> TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover these connections. Keep up the good work
    >> and thank you for keeping us so well informed.
    >>
    >> --Hua Kul [email protected]
    >
    >Thanks Hua. I'm getting more and more po'd at these "scientists". I've almost at the point where
    >I'm going to start documenting this crap and create a website. If I do that I might as well carry
    >it thru to a book. Expose all these greedy bastards.

    I hope you have deep pockets for all the defamation suits. Conflicts of interest are no problem if
    they are declared, and still no problem if they are not, just suspicious. You must show illegal or
    immoral activites, of which so far you have shown none. In fact, I'd be worried if I'd written what
    you already have. Just takes someone to see and tell the person you are maligning, and you could be
    for the chop. Good luck :)

    Moosh:)
     
  9. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    "Moosh:)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 12 Feb 2004 18:31:51 -0800, [email protected] (tcomeau) posted:
    >
    > >[email protected] (Hua Kul) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote in message
    > >> news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    > >> >
    > >> > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    > >> >
    > >> > Interesting quote:
    > >> > ------------------------
    > >> > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-
    > >> > fed us a diet that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never recommended it before
    > >> > this, and I certainly wouldn't start anybody on it now.''
    > >> > -----------------------
    > >> >
    > >> > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
    > >> >
    > >> > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the American Dietetic Association;
    > >> > Associate Professor of Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY. Scientific
    > >> > advisor to Kidnetic.com, which is funded through the International Food Information Council
    > >> > Foundation (IFIC) by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler
    > >> > Company, Kellogg Company, Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National
    > >> > Confectioners Association, Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the Snack
    > >> > Food Association. (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed 11/12/03) Member
    > >> > of the expert advisory board for the American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
    > >> > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total
    > >> > Fitness expert in an article on weight-loss strategies.
    > >> > (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
    > >> > accessed 11/12
    > >> >
    > >> > The vultures are circling.....
    > >> >
    > >> > TC
    > >>
    > >> TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover these connections. Keep up the good
    > >> work and thank you for keeping us so well informed.
    > >>
    > >> --Hua Kul [email protected]
    > >
    > >Thanks Hua. I'm getting more and more po'd at these "scientists". I've almost at the point where
    > >I'm going to start documenting this crap and create a website. If I do that I might as well carry
    > >it thru to a book. Expose all these greedy bastards.
    >
    > I hope you have deep pockets for all the defamation suits.

    Opinions and statements of fact are not defamation. The onus would be on them to disprove it, that
    would be interestin to see.

    Conflicts
    > of interest are no problem if they are declared, and still no problem if they are not, just
    > suspicious. You must show illegal or immoral activites, of which so far you have shown none.

    I am not claiming that any illegal activities are occurring, just greedy immoral crap. And showing
    immoral activities is simple to do, just look at their public statements and their personal and
    financial interests. Although immorality is subjective I beleive most people will agree with me.

    > In fact, I'd be worried if I'd written what you already have. Just takes someone to see and tell
    > the person you are maligning, and you could be for the chop. Good luck :)
    >
    > Moosh:)

    I'm still waiting for legal threats to appear. I would just love for them to come after me legally.
    Now that would garner some interesting headlines. Talk about exposure in the media.

    TC
     
  10. Larry Hoover

    Larry Hoover Guest

    "Jeffrey Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > tintinet wrote:
    > > [email protected] (tcomeau) wrote:
    > >
    > >>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    > >>
    > >>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    > >
    > > At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
    >
    > 25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And he had a history of heart disease and
    > high blood pressure. Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem to be a lot.
    > Nine pounds a day?
    >
    > --Jeff

    It's tough to find the data when the media are intent on maintaining the scandalous nature of a
    story, but the good doctor was admitted to hospital at 195 lbs., just after his fall. And, because
    of a pre-existing virus-mediated heart condition, he already retained water. He was an older man.
    Give the guy a break. He didn't die of a heart attack or a stroke. He had a virus that damaged his
    heart, and he fell and hit his head.
     
  11. Robert Klute wrote:
    > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:19 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>tintinet wrote:
    >>>[email protected] (tcomeau) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    >>>>
    >>>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    >>>
    >>>At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
    >>
    >>25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And he had a history of heart disease and
    >>high blood pressure. Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem to be a lot.
    >>Nine pounds a day?
    >
    >
    > 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than 5 oz. per hour.

    Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids. It's gotta be a physical
    impossibility. Maybe if his name were Zeppelin.

    --Jeff

    --
    Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's how we pass the day away, in the merry
    old land of Oz.
     
  12. This post not CC'd by email
    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:32:40 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Robert Klute wrote:
    >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:19 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>tintinet wrote:
    >>>>[email protected] (tcomeau) wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
    >>>>>
    >>>>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
    >>>>
    >>>>At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
    >>>
    >>>25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And he had a history of heart disease
    >>>and high blood pressure. Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem to be a
    >>>lot. Nine pounds a day?
    >>
    >>
    >> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than 5 oz. per hour.
    >
    >Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids. It's gotta be a physical
    >impossibility. Maybe if his name were Zeppelin.
    >
    >--Jeff

    G'day G'day Jeff,

    >Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids. It's gotta be a physical
    >impossibility. Maybe if his name were Zeppelin.

    While I understand the point you are making and think it is a point worth pursuing, it may be worth
    mentioning that healthy people retain far more then one-third of their body weight in fluids.

    http://www.healthkeeper.com/HealthKeeperBody_Fat_Percentages.htm

    "When in ideal shape, body fat will make up about 15% - 18% of a male's body weight and 18% - 22% of
    a female's. The remainder of the body's weight is composed of water (55%-60%), muscle and other lean
    tissue (10%-20%), and bone and minerals (6%-8%). In other words, a 150-pound woman who is within or
    close to her ideal body fat composition range at 22% will have approximately 33 pounds of fat, 86
    pounds of weight composed primarily of water, 20 pounds of muscle and other lean tissue, and 11
    pounds of bone and mineral weight. This total then makes up her total weight of 150 lbs."

    As I understand it Atkins was in a coma, he was on an iv so had no control of how much fluid was
    administered to him. He had organ failure. I think one would have to talk to a doctor or nurse with
    intensive care experience to know what is possible and what is not in such circumstances. The
    reports of 195 at admission and 258 at death have been circulating for a while and no intensive care
    physician has stepped forward and said "That is impossible. At least one of the quoted weights must
    be wrong." The story as it has unfolded has been newsworthy and yet no reporter has found a medical
    person to come forth and make such a statement. On the other hand no reporter has found some
    independent intensive care specialist to step forward and say something like "Yes it does seem weird
    but since 2000 we have had 7 such cases in the greater BLAH, BLAH, BLAH area."

    Perhaps tomorrow they will.

    Till then we can but wonder where the truth lies.

    Best wishes,

    --
    Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the blind dog was leading."

    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin
     
  13. Robert Klute

    Robert Klute Guest

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:32:40 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than 5 oz. per hour.
    >
    >Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids. It's gotta be a physical
    >impossibility. Maybe if his name were Zeppelin.

    In a coma fluid retention is common. If you stop producing urine because your bp is too low, you
    will retain fluids.

    The rate is about 120 - 140 ml/hr of IV drip. A single IV is normally set to 70+/-10 mls/hr (but can
    be higher), so the the rate is consistent with a double IV feed.
     
  14. September

    September Guest

    Robert Klute <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:32:40 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than 5 oz. per hour.
    > >
    > >Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids. It's gotta be a physical
    > >impossibility. Maybe if his name were Zeppelin.
    >
    > In a coma fluid retention is common. If you stop producing urine because your bp is too low, you
    > will retain fluids.
    >
    > The rate is about 120 - 140 ml/hr of IV drip. A single IV is normally set to 70+/-10 mls/hr (but
    > can be higher), so the the rate is consistent with a double IV feed.

    You seem knowledgeable in this area, so I'd like your opinion on this:

    ~New York Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden splashed water on the fluid explanation, telling
    Fox News's Greta van Sustern "I don't think the 60-pound difference can be explained by treatment in
    a hospital. He had brain hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture, had an epidural
    hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain as
    possible. By (sic) loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very harmful to somebody with
    the kind of blunt trauma that Dr. Atkins had."~

    From: http://www.fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html

    Is there any truth to what Michael Baden said?

    TIA!
     
  15. Robert Klute

    Robert Klute Guest

    On 15 Feb 2004 19:11:10 -0800, [email protected] (September) wrote:

    >
    >You seem knowledgeable in this area, so I'd like your opinion on this:
    >
    I don't claim to be knowledgeable. I am just a mathematician. I only know what I have gleaned from
    talking to people and doing a small amount of research. So my posting was only to put the numbers
    in a different perspective - that of whether it was physically possible, not whether it was
    probable or actual.

    >~New York Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden splashed water on the fluid explanation, telling
    >Fox News's Greta van Sustern "I don't think the 60-pound difference can be explained by treatment
    >in a hospital. He had brain hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture, had an
    >epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment for that is to take as much fluid away from the
    >brain as possible. By (sic) loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very harmful to
    >somebody with the kind of blunt trauma that Dr. Atkins had."~
    >
    >From: http://www.fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html

    Fumento is not exactly an unbiased source, nor is his article 'the whole truth'. He is a long time
    critic of the Atkins diet.

    >Is there any truth to what Michael Baden said?

    Michael Baden is a respected pathologist and should know what he is talking about. Certainly I would
    give his swag on what little information has been released is a lot more credible than almost anyone
    else, particulary anything I might postulate. Now, if you read the actual partial transcript - as
    opposed to Fumento's redacted version - you get a slightly different slant.

    Here is the URL for the story http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111268,00.html

    I have pulled Baden's comments. You see that Sustern and Baden are talking about the accuracy of the
    WSJ and USA Today articles and why they might be wrong. Neither has seen the medical reports being
    discussed. You see he discusses several reasons for what he sees as a discrepency. That the
    admittance weight was based on faulty information or that the recorded death weight may be wrong.
    Later on Baden admits his wife is on the Atkins diet.

    Also, he says they shouldn't have loaded Atkins with fluids, not that they didn't. Without having
    access to the hospital's medical charts and the actual medical examiner's report, there is no way
    Dr. Baden (or anyone outside the hospital) knows exactly what happened.

    The '...' is Sustern's commentary and questions, but as I said: read it yourself.

    "As far as weight goes -- a body is weighed after death on a metal scale that may weigh 30 pounds or
    20 pounds placed on a large scale. Sometimes the morgue attendant, the person who weighs the body,
    may forget to subtract the weight of the scale and the clothing on the body so larger weights may be
    recorded than is actually true.

    But, in this instance, I don't think the 60-pound difference can be explained by treatment in a
    hospital. He had brain hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture, had an epidural
    hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain
    as possible.

    By loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very harmful to somebody with the kind of blunt
    trauma that Dr. Atkins had. So I think there's a real discrepancy.

    ...

    Yes. Well, supposedly, there was no autopsy, which is also part of the problem. But either the wife
    is incorrect at 190 pounds or the weight is incorrect. I don't think it can be accounted for by
    treatment in the hospital because of the nature of the condition he had.

    ...

    I know so many people -- my wife is on the Atkins diet -- that lose weight on the Atkins...

    ...

    And I know so many people who have lost weight on the Atkins diet. I mean diet is kind of a mystery,
    and there are so many opposing diets, and it seems to work for a lot of people, and you can't argue
    with success.
     
  16. September

    September Guest

    Robert Klute <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 15 Feb 2004 19:11:10 -0800, [email protected] (September) wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > >You seem knowledgeable in this area, so I'd like your opinion on this:
    > >
    > I don't claim to be knowledgeable. I am just a mathematician. I only know what I have gleaned from
    > talking to people and doing a small amount of research. So my posting was only to put the numbers
    > in a different perspective - that of whether it was physically possible, not whether it was
    > probable or actual.
    >
    > >~New York Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden splashed water on the fluid explanation, telling
    > >Fox News's Greta van Sustern "I don't think the 60-pound difference can be explained by treatment
    > >in a hospital. He had brain hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture, had an
    > >epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment for that is to take as much fluid away from
    > >the brain as possible. By (sic) loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very harmful to
    > >somebody with the kind of blunt trauma that Dr. Atkins had."~
    > >
    > >From: http://www.fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html
    >
    > Fumento is not exactly an unbiased source, nor is his article 'the whole truth'. He is a long time
    > critic of the Atkins diet.
    >
    > >Is there any truth to what Michael Baden said?
    >
    > Michael Baden is a respected pathologist and should know what he is talking about. Certainly I
    > would give his swag on what little information has been released is a lot more credible than
    > almost anyone else, particulary anything I might postulate. Now, if you read the actual partial
    > transcript - as opposed to Fumento's redacted version - you get a slightly different slant.
    >
    > Here is the URL for the story http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111268,00.html
    >
    > I have pulled Baden's comments. You see that Sustern and Baden are talking about the accuracy of
    > the WSJ and USA Today articles and why they might be wrong. Neither has seen the medical reports
    > being discussed. You see he discusses several reasons for what he sees as a discrepency. That the
    > admittance weight was based on faulty information or that the recorded death weight may be wrong.
    > Later on Baden admits his wife is on the Atkins diet.
    >
    > Also, he says they shouldn't have loaded Atkins with fluids, not that they didn't. Without having
    > access to the hospital's medical charts and the actual medical examiner's report, there is no way
    > Dr. Baden (or anyone outside the hospital) knows exactly what happened.
    >
    >
    > The '...' is Sustern's commentary and questions, but as I said: read it yourself.
    >
    > "As far as weight goes -- a body is weighed after death on a metal scale that may weigh 30 pounds
    > or 20 pounds placed on a large scale. Sometimes the morgue attendant, the person who weighs the
    > body, may forget to subtract the weight of the scale and the clothing on the body so larger
    > weights may be recorded than is actually true.
    >
    > But, in this instance, I don't think the 60-pound difference can be explained by treatment in a
    > hospital. He had brain hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture, had an epidural
    > hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain
    > as possible.
    >
    > By loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very harmful to somebody with the kind of
    > blunt trauma that Dr. Atkins had. So I think there's a real discrepancy.
    >
    > ...
    >
    > Yes. Well, supposedly, there was no autopsy, which is also part of the problem. But either the
    > wife is incorrect at 190 pounds or the weight is incorrect. I don't think it can be accounted for
    > by treatment in the hospital because of the nature of the condition he had.
    >
    > ...
    >
    > I know so many people -- my wife is on the Atkins diet -- that lose weight on the Atkins...
    >
    > ...
    >
    > And I know so many people who have lost weight on the Atkins diet. I mean diet is kind of a
    > mystery, and there are so many opposing diets, and it seems to work for a lot of people, and you
    > can't argue with success.

    Thanks for your comments and the URL. They are very informative and much appreciated :)
     
Loading...