Attack until you puke?

[objective]

BACKGROUND
-------------------
At a recent sprint training session, a couple of us were working on bridging and attacking. After making several hard attacks I started getting sick to my stomach (nausea). This only seems to happen to me when I make a hard sprint-like effort followed by a sustained effort. In other words, when I don't get a chance to recover.

QUESTION
-------------
* Does this happen to others?
* What causes this?
* Is this a counter productive?
* What adaptation will this type of effort produce?

BTW, my wife is a CrossFit nut and when they puke while training they get a T-Shirt.

 

[Spunout]

NOrmal, and this means that you are almost working hard enough. If you do puke, you are working hard enough.

So, make sure your last meal is at least 3 hours before the workout. Pre-hydrate all of the time, don't guzzle half a water bottle during your warmup. Take sips all of the time.

 

[sogood]

The lactic acid build up has reached a systemic level and has irritated your brain stem...

 

[The Flash!]

The lactic acid build up has reached a systemic level and has irritated your brain stem...

Puking on the bike in the middle of a winning sprint is a learned skill. Keep up the good work!

The Flash!

 

[rr9876]

I think that puking from exercise is somewhat of a peronal thing in that some people it happens to and others it doesn't no matter how hard they push. I've never even come close to puking on the bike, and trust me it's not from lack of effort. I have a little theory about puking from exercise, it's unscientific and probably wrong, but whatever I'll throw it out there anyway.

It seems like people with better anaerobic abilities tend to puke more--I know that all of my sprinter/kilo buddies talk about puking during tough workouts while my TT buddies neve do. I've heard that puking from exercise is a result of blood acidity reaching "toxic" levels, and my little theory is that only the guys with really good anaerobic abilities are able to do enough work anaerobically to produce enough lactate to reach that blood acidity tripping point that sends your lunch out onto the road. Feel free to shoot this theory down if you know better, actually I'd love to know the truth.

 

[objective]

I think that puking from exercise is somewhat of a peronal thing in that some people it happens to and others it doesn't no matter how hard they push. I've never even come close to puking on the bike, and trust me it's not from lack of effort. I have a little theory about puking from exercise, it's unscientific and probably wrong, but whatever I'll throw it out there anyway.

It seems like people with better anaerobic abilities tend to puke more--I know that all of my sprinter/kilo buddies talk about puking during tough workouts while my TT buddies neve do. I've heard that puking from exercise is a result of blood acidity reaching "toxic" levels, and my little theory is that only the guys with really good anaerobic abilities are able to do enough work anaerobically to produce enough lactate to reach that blood acidity tripping point that sends your lunch out onto the road. Feel free to shoot this theory down if you know better, actually I'd love to know the truth.

Interesting theory. Then again, your TT buddies probably don't spend a lot time doing anerobic effort becuase, well, their TT'ers. Just speculation on my part.

I wonder if the high levels of lactate produced by these efforts helps make one more lactate tolerant and how that might help increase ones power at threshold and VO2Max.

BTW, I did a little 2 hour workout that included 10 L6 intervals ranging from 30" to 2' with recovery of 3' or more. I felt fresh when I got home and had only burnt ~900 kj. My TSS, however, was 256.

I continue to be amazed at how much stress can be accumulated in such a short about of time and with so much rest.

 

[sogood]

I think that puking from exercise is somewhat of a peronal thing in that some people it happens to and others it doesn't no matter how hard they push. I've never even come close to puking on the bike, and trust me it's not from lack of effort. I have a little theory about puking from exercise, it's unscientific and probably wrong, but whatever I'll throw it out there anyway.

It seems like people with better anaerobic abilities tend to puke more--I know that all of my sprinter/kilo buddies talk about puking during tough workouts while my TT buddies neve do. I've heard that puking from exercise is a result of blood acidity reaching "toxic" levels, and my little theory is that only the guys with really good anaerobic abilities are able to do enough work anaerobically to produce enough lactate to reach that blood acidity tripping point that sends your lunch out onto the road. Feel free to shoot this theory down if you know better, actually I'd love to know the truth.

My understanding is that the nausea and the puke is a response to metabolic acidosis that could not be adequately buffered and/or blown off through ventilation.

 

[cclarke]

BTW, I did a little 2 hour workout that included 10 L6 intervals ranging from 30" to 2' with recovery of 3' or more. I felt fresh when I got home and had only burnt ~900 kj. My TSS, however, was 256.

I continue to be amazed at how much stress can be accumulated in such a short about of time and with so much rest.

2 hrs and 256 tss? Really? I'd bet my mortgage payment you have underestimated your ftp.

 

[objective]

2 hrs and 256 tss? Really? I'd bet my mortgage payment you have underestimated your ftp.

I've been wondering this but when I've actually tested it, I get about the same number. That said, two things have changed recenlty that may be effecting my FTP:

1] I just replaced my old power-tap pro w/ an SL.
2] Over the last month, my CTL has increased about 20 points and my TSB has been in positive teritory over the last week.

An additional data points :
3] When I performed my last test on 3/8, my TSB was -41.
4] Have one of those sprinters slopes when you look at my power curve.

That said, I tend to agree with you as the numbers look a bit "magical".

 

[palewin]

It seems like people with better anaerobic abilities tend to puke more--I know that all of my sprinter/kilo buddies talk about puking during tough workouts while my TT buddies neve do.

No idea of the physiological cause, but the only event that almost always got me to the puking point was when I rode track pursuit. Just don't want you to think that only sprinters have fun. (Ah, nostalgic memories of the old Kissena Park track in NYC...)

 

[bikeguy]

I think that puking from exercise is somewhat of a peronal thing in that some people it happens to and others it doesn't no matter how hard they push. I've never even come close to puking on the bike, and trust me it's not from lack of effort. I have a little theory about puking from exercise, it's unscientific and probably wrong, but whatever I'll throw it out there anyway.

It seems like people with better anaerobic abilities tend to puke more--I know that all of my sprinter/kilo buddies talk about puking during tough workouts while my TT buddies neve do. I've heard that puking from exercise is a result of blood acidity reaching "toxic" levels, and my little theory is that only the guys with really good anaerobic abilities are able to do enough work anaerobically to produce enough lactate to reach that blood acidity tripping point that sends your lunch out onto the road. Feel free to shoot this theory down if you know better, actually I'd love to know the truth.

I've never puked from any kind of exercise, but I got a blistering headache from a short 35 km circuit race and couldn't walk a straight line for over a minute. That was exceedingly unpleasant.

-bikeguy

 

[objective]

I've never puked from any kind of exercise, but I got a blistering headache from a short 35 km circuit race and couldn't walk a straight line for over a minute. That was exceedingly unpleasant.

-bikeguy

This gets me in way over my head, but...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15308499

 

[bikeguy]

This gets me in way over my head, but...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15308499

I'm confused.. what has that liink got to do with my post?

-bikeguy

 

[objective]

I'm confused.. what has that liink got to do with my post?

-bikeguy

Nothing. It does, however, apply to my original post. ;-)

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[doctorSpoc]

This gets me in way over my head, but...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15308499

yup... i've read that most places too.. lactic acid is not the culprit at all.. it's not even the cause of musle pain.. has gotten a bad rap for nothing. in fact production of lots of lactic acid is actually a good thing... means you are able to do lots of work anearobically... and after it's produced your cells actually use it as fuel.. the residual concentration of it is likely a measure of how well your cells are able to reutillize it as fuel.. why the recovery in anearobic workouts is as important as the interval.. you produce lots of lacticate during the interval and the recovery allows your cells to get good at reutillizing it (aerobically) as fuel.

don't know about the puking thing but could the deepness and frequency of breathing have anything to do with it? your diapham and ribs are massaging you stomach and abdomen in a big way (VO2 intervals (3-5min) cause the deepest, highest frequency breathing for me) and if they are doing it at the right frequency and deeply enough could this cause you to chuck your cookies?

 

[jmocallaghan]

yup... i've read that most places too.. lactic acid is not the culprit at all.. it's not even the cause of musle pain.. has gotten a bad rap for nothing. in fact production of lots of lactic acid is actually a good thing... means you are able to do lots of work anearobically... and after it's produced your cells actually use it as fuel.. the residual concentration of it is likely a measure of how well your cells are able to reutillize it as fuel.. why the recovery in anearobic workouts is as important as the interval.. you produce lots of lacticate during the interval and the recovery allows your cells to get good at reutillizing it (aerobically) as fuel.

don't know about the puking thing but could the deepness and frequency of breathing have anything to do with it? your diapham and ribs are massaging you stomach and abdomen in a big way (VO2 intervals (3-5min) cause the deepest, highest frequency breathing for me) and if they are doing it at the right frequency and deeply enough could this cause you to chuck your cookies?

Dude, sounds like you're doing cyclocross. Actually, a lot of people will hurl from post nasal sinus drip irritating the stomach. There's a chemical reaction/explanation one of our Docs (Army) explained to us. Often times it is inflammed from bennadryl,etc.. stuff to keep you from having post nasal drip (go figure)..... No real answers I can offer. Maybe wear booties so if you blow it only hits them? Oh, and use lemon pedge on the bike keeps it clean and a good buffer from puke....