Australian team pursuit team tests positive

Ilan Vardi · Aug 3, 2003

They broke the world record by over 2 seconds, and gave no explanation other than talent and hard
work. Therefore, they fail the Le Monde drug test.

-ilan

Andrew McDonald · Aug 3, 2003

[email protected] (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> They broke the world record by over 2 seconds, and gave no explanation other than talent and hard
> work. Therefore, they fail the Le Monde drug test.
>
> -ilan

And by Athens 2004 they predict the winning time to be 3.55 - a further 2 seconds off.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/track/2003/WTC03/?id=tp

Carl Sundquist · Aug 3, 2003

"Andrew McDonald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > They broke the world record by over 2 seconds, and gave no explanation other than talent and
> > hard work. Therefore, they fail the Le Monde drug
test.
> >
> > -ilan
>
> And by Athens 2004 they predict the winning time to be 3.55 - a further 2 seconds off.
>

I saw that and was thinking it was a bold statement.

When I saw 3:57, my immediate thought was: "Is 285m an optimal length for a pull?"

Nevertheless, most pursuit and kilo records have been set on indoor (wood) tracks, Athens is
outdoors (although I just read that they are planning to cover it for the Olympics). I've not had
the pleasure to visit Athens, but it is reputed to be one of the more air polluted cities in the
world. OTOH, humid air is faster than dry air and I believe Athens has fairly high humidity.

Other factors are that the Athens track was built by Ron Webb, who also built the Superdome in
Adelaide, the home of the AIS track squad. They are both 250m tracks and if Athens was built to the
same specs as Adelaide, then it is more of a pursuiter's track than a sprinters' (fairly wide bends
and short straights), so performance assessments could be made on that basis.

Lastly, I don't know what kind of effect weathering has on the track surface, i.e. making it faster
as it ages or slower, but the Athens track is at least 10 years old.

Warren · Aug 3, 2003

In article <[email protected]>, Carl Sundquist <[email protected]> wrote:

> Lastly, I don't know what kind of effect weathering has on the track surface, i.e. making it
> faster as it ages or slower, but the Athens track is at least 10 years old.

I believe the wood used is the super-hard asezia (spelling?) wood, much harder than pine.

-WG

Howard Kveck · Aug 3, 2003

In article <[email protected]>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Other factors are that the Athens track was built by Ron Webb, who also built the Superdome in
> Adelaide, the home of the AIS track squad. They are both 250m tracks and if Athens was built to
> the same specs as Adelaide, then it is more of a pursuiter's track than a sprinters' (fairly wide
> bends and short straights), so performance assessments could be made on that basis.

Would that track configuration tend to be better for all the strictly timed
events? I imagine events like points are affected the same way as the sprints...

--
tanx, Howard

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Kurgan Gringion · Aug 3, 2003

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Other factors are that the Athens track was built by Ron Webb, who also built the Superdome in
> > Adelaide, the home of the AIS track squad. They
are
> > both 250m tracks and if Athens was built to the same specs as Adelaide,
then
> > it is more of a pursuiter's track than a sprinters' (fairly wide bends
and
> > short straights), so performance assessments could be made on that
basis.
>
> Would that track configuration tend to be better for all the strictly
timed
> events? I imagine events like points are affected the same way as the
sprints...

IMO, although yes, a points race is affected by track configuration, it is to a lesser degree when
compared to match sprints. Much of the tactics in points racing is done off the front.

Carl Sundquist · Aug 4, 2003

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Other factors are that the Athens track was built by Ron Webb, who also built the Superdome in
> > Adelaide, the home of the AIS track squad. They
are
> > both 250m tracks and if Athens was built to the same specs as Adelaide,
then
> > it is more of a pursuiter's track than a sprinters' (fairly wide bends
and
> > short straights), so performance assessments could be made on that
basis.
>
> Would that track configuration tend to be better for all the strictly
timed
> events? I imagine events like points are affected the same way as the
sprints...
>

IMO, generally yes, but literally no. What I mean is that for the 500m, kilo, and all pursuits I
believe it is a faster design (although there was a thread last winter or sometime last year
discussing speed through the bends with the centerpoint of the bike/body mass having a slightly
smaller radius than the wheels on the track surface and the effects thereof).

My reference to literally is that the 200m TT is part of the sprint tournament, and slightly longer
straights and a more pronounced downhill on the transition from the end of the bend to the straight
at the top of the track are more suited to faster 200m times.

Because the points race is a massed start, multiple scoring opportunity event, the tactics for
sprinting are pretty much different match sprints, even the 4-up 5th-8th place race tactics aren't
really the same as points race sprints. I think tracks like Athens (bigger turns, shorter
straights) are probably easier for points races because after a while, the compression of your body
on your arms (and crotch to some degree) from the bends is fatiguing. Larger radius bends reduce
that effect slightly.

Howard Kveck · Aug 5, 2003

In article <030820032203339142%[email protected]>, warren <[email protected]> wrote:

> I believe the wood used is the super-hard asezia (spelling?) wood, much harder than pine.
>
> -WG

This got the woodworker side of me curious, but I couldn't identify the wood you mention, or find
a site that went into detail on the Athens track. Have you got a reference? I wonder how fast a
track could be if it was made out of eastern maple (rock maple is a common nickname for that):
very tight grain and it is hard as rock.

--
tanx, Howard

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Howard Kveck · Aug 5, 2003

In article <[email protected]>, "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Would that track configuration tend to be better for all the strictly
> timed
> > events? I imagine events like points are affected the same way as the
> sprints...
> >
>
> My reference to literally is that the 200m TT is part of the sprint tournament, and slightly
> longer straights and a more pronounced downhill on the transition from the end of the bend to the
> straight at the top of the track are more suited to faster 200m times.
>
> Because the points race is a massed start, multiple scoring opportunity event, the tactics for
> sprinting are pretty much different match sprints, even the 4-up 5th-8th place race tactics aren't
> really the same as points race sprints. I think tracks like Athens (bigger turns, shorter
> straights) are probably easier for points races because after a while, the compression of your
> body on your arms (and crotch to some degree) from the bends is fatiguing. Larger radius bends
> reduce that effect slightly.

So riding a long points race at a track like Ghent or Antwerp (132m!) would get to be pretty
brutal, right? Are you at all familiar with the shape of the Athens track? How does it compare to
Frisco (besides being the same length and similar banking)?

--
tanx, Howard

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

Carl Sundquist · Aug 5, 2003

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <030820032203339142%[email protected]>, warren <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I believe the wood used is the super-hard asezia (spelling?) wood, much harder than pine.
> >
> > -WG
>
> This got the woodworker side of me curious, but I couldn't identify the
wood
> you mention, or find a site that went into detail on the Athens track.
Have you
> got a reference? I wonder how fast a track could be if it was made out of eastern maple (rock
> maple is a common nickname for that): very tight grain
and
> it is hard as rock.
>

I believe the correct spelling is afzelia. You might get more information at
http://www.velodromes.com/ .

Carl Sundquist · Aug 5, 2003

Originally posted by Howard Kveck
> I think tracks like Athens (bigger turns, shorter
> straights) are probably easier for points races because after a while, the compression of your
> body on your arms (and crotch to some degree) from the bends is fatiguing. Larger radius bends
> reduce that effect slightly.

So riding a long points race at a track like Ghent or Antwerp (132m!) would get to be pretty
brutal, right? Are you at all familiar with the shape of the Athens track? How does it compare to
Frisco (besides being the same length and similar banking)?

I've only ridden three really short tracks -- the INSEP training track in Paris (166m), a portable track in Buenos Aires, and the Vandedrome.

The INSEP track I've only trained on, and did low to moderate intensity short duration efforts. Therefore I didn't get a sensation of arm fatigue (plus much of the riding was on aero bars, taking lower arm and joint fatigue out of the equation). The most memorable sensation is that of losing track of which is the front stretch and which is the back stretch. That was partially due to the effect of feeling like being in the bottom of a bowl, without visual references to differentiate between the two straights, and because i was hitting each straight approximately every 5 to 6 seconds.

The BA track wasn't designed very well, as I've mentioned in past threads. It was 135m, but the width was only about 4m wide, it had long straights and tight turns that weren't banked steeply enough. It also had the boards oriented perpendicular to the direction of travel (it made for a very loud rumbling race), which were painted with a slippery glossy brown paint. The outer fence was constructed of chicken wire. I did a 6 day race there (of which about three days were rained out, as the track was located on an outside dirt horse showing arena). Between the tight radius, shallow banking, narrow width and slippery surface, the bends were simply not able to handle the speed that the straights would allow. I think I raced in a 49x16. The track was so narrow that by the time you left space at the top for the relief riders, there was barely enough room for two teams to ride side by side. It was so congested it was actually harder to get from the back of the field to the front than it was to lap the field. In the nightly one hour chase, we rode almost 500 laps. Thus, you were only going WFO on very rare occasions. The stress and adrenalin rush of riding on such a precarious track overrode my sense of fatigue.

I do recall arm fatigue from riding on the Vandedrome, as you could ride to the max through the bends. The compressive forces increase with speed. I'm sure that conditioning helps to offset fatigue, so if you were to race and train on a small track you would get used to it.

I haven't seen the Athens track, but as I said earlier in the thread, I've ridden the track in Adelaide in 1994 and they were both built by Ron Webb so they are probably very similar, if not identical. The Frisco track was designed and built by Dale Hughes. I haven't ridden it since 1998. My memory is vague on comparison between the two, but for what I can remember, the Frisco track is a little steeper and has a bit more of a transition between the bends and the straights. I cannot recall differences in the radii of the turns. I didn't really care for the finish on the original plywood (Frisco), so I hope the new surface is better.
Click to expand...

Gary K · Aug 5, 2003

Looks like such a drug test has been performed by journo Giancarlo Ceruti of La Gazzetta
Dello Sport.

Last article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/aug03/aug06news

Its because Italy failed to win a medal.

Ilan Vardi <[email protected]> wrote:

> They broke the world record by over 2 seconds, and gave no explanation other than talent and hard
> work. Therefore, they fail the Le Monde drug test.
>
> -ilan

Howard Kveck · Aug 6, 2003

In article <[email protected]>, Carl Sundquist
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I've only ridden three really short tracks -- the INSEP training track in Paris (166m), a portable
> track in Buenos Aires, and the Vandedrome.
>

Thanks for the very thorough info, Carl. I could easily see that the track in BA would have been
pretty hectic with a few people on it.

--
tanx, Howard

"The new way is the old way, 'cuz we know it all by heart..."
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