Aust's 1st pro contintental team woohoo!

[warrwych]

From www.cyclingnews.com Friday


Drapac-Porsche confirm pro-continental status

By Greg Johnson

Australia's Drapac-Porsche cycling team has announced it's been approved as the nation's first professional continental team. "The registration has been approved," confirmed Drapac's Adam Murchie. "It opens up another whole opportunity to the team now, for us to move forward."

The Melbourne-based outfit will expand to 21-members for 2007 by adding new riders from both the East and West coasts of Australia, in addition to retaining its full 2006 roster. Another new addition to the outfit is former six day track competitor Scott McGrory, who has been appointed as the team manager.

McGrory revealed to Cyclingnews that the team is currently in discussions with various European race organisers about its yet to be confirmed schedule. The outfit, which has signed a multi-year sponsorship deal with Giant, is expected to head to both Europe and Asia in 2007, as well as maintaining a strong presence the local road-racing scene.

"We're pushing for a Tour Down Under start – we'd like to see something happen there as we're Australia's first pro-conti team," said McGrory.

Despite the outfit's increased roster and schedule for 2007, it's more determined than ever to encourage performance off the race track, as well as on. Over the coming months the outfit will be launching even more programs to aid its athletes' personal and professional growth.

"We're about to launch a mentoring program where each team rider has an individual mentor," revealed McGrory. "They will be somewhat removed from the team. They can work through problems, and assist them in other areas of their life. A lot of these people are preeminent business people."

Look out for a full feature from Cyclingnews on this news story next week.

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:
> From www.cyclingnews.com Friday


Old news (Friday?!)

Not sure if they're actually the first though? Wasn't iTeam Nova
Australian? Or at
least, mainly Australian based?
and they rode in Europe etc?

Personally, I can't see the big deal. Who cares who owns the team
licence? Isn't it about the riders and DS's? FdJ has had a strong
Aust presence for years with their development squads, and Mapei also
had a lot going on here too.

 

[warrwych]

warrwych wrote:
> From www.cyclingnews.com Friday


Old news (Friday?!)

Not sure if they're actually the first though? Wasn't iTeam Nova
Australian? Or at
least, mainly Australian based?
and they rode in Europe etc?

Personally, I can't see the big deal. Who cares who owns the team
licence? Isn't it about the riders and DS's? FdJ has had a strong
Aust presence for years with their development squads, and Mapei also
had a lot going on here too.

what did happen to Team iNova???All I ever saw of them were ads in a magazine.... D-P are visible, and out there doing stuff. Their riders actually do race, and race lots. The AIS also race in Europe, but not as a professionally funded team, but as a government funded team. That's the difference. A real estate agent and a car dealer (waiting for Bleve to correct me here! ) have put money behind supporting local riders. It's an Australian funded team of Australian riders, that's the important bit.

Sorry for being behind the times with old news dude, but as no one posted it here (too busy talking spokes and RR reports) .................

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> > warrwych wrote:
> > > From www.cyclingnews.com Friday
> >
> >
> > Old news (Friday?!)
> >
> > Not sure if they're actually the first though? Wasn't iTeam Nova
> > Australian? Or at
> > least, mainly Australian based?
> > and they rode in Europe etc?
> >
> > Personally, I can't see the big deal. Who cares who owns the team
> > licence? Isn't it about the riders and DS's? FdJ has had a strong
> > Aust presence for years with their development squads, and Mapei also
> > had a lot going on here too.
>
>
> what did happen to Team iNova???


They merged with another 'continental' team and then went broke/folded.
So did the HLP/Ridewiser squad (went broke, not merged, remember them?
They flew Macca to the start of the big road race in NSW a couple or
years ago, in a chopper!), if my understanding of what happened is
correct.



All I ever saw of them were ads in a
> magazine.... D-P are visible, and out there doing stuff. Their riders
> actually do race, and race lots. The AIS also race in Europe, but not
> as a professionally funded team, but as a government funded team.
> That's the difference. A real estate agent and a car dealer (waiting
> for Bleve to correct me here! ) have put money behind supporting
> local riders. It's an Australian funded team of Australian riders,
> that's the important bit.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but that IMO it's not a very big deal,
there's been teams before (CCCC are trying to put one together at the
moment, see their website). What's interesting about it is that they
not only race the big stuff (or will, we haven't seen what hasn't
happened yet!), but also a lot of the local stuff in Melbourne, which
is why you're seeing them. Being local, and all

 

[warrwych]

<chopchop>

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but that IMO it's not a very big deal,
there's been teams before (CCCC are trying to put one together at the
moment, see their website). What's interesting about it is that they
not only race the big stuff (or will, we haven't seen what hasn't
happened yet!), but also a lot of the local stuff in Melbourne, which
is why you're seeing them. Being local, and all

Yeah there have been teams before, but I think the timing and management is right this time. They have established a local profile, seem to be well managed in a thoughtful and considered way, have solid funding, are serious about the business of racing and of producing a professional team. I don't think CCCC's team will be professional per se, not in the sense of paying riders and racing in Europe, but will be in the sense of racing the new style teams events locally, and racing national elite races in a more structured and uniform (in more ways than one) way. I think D-P is on about something a little different ie presenting an Australian funded, Australian populated team to race internationally, on the professional international circuits.

It is a big deal, because attempts have been made before (as you note) but have been unsuccessful for what ever reason. I think this attempt will be successful and will be seen as the pioneer for putting an all Australian pro team (an authentic pro team) on the start list for international pro racing. In a few years we may well have a Pro Tour team in the field - so long as they don't sign Basso et al a la Operation Puertico. Every TdF season, we whinge about not having an all Aust pro team out there - well here it is, in its infancy. So for me, it's not the usual Australian laconic "o yeah, that's nice but so what?" It's about a real opportunity for Australia to do what we keep saying should happen, but hasn't (successfully) to date, for what ever reason.

 

[gplama]

This is great news for the team and for local cycling. From my experience of watching and racing with the Drapac Porsche guys, they're a great outfit. I hope to see more of this team based stuff in the near future, at ALL levels. At the end of the day it means more corporate support and exposure for cycling.

(rant)
Don't confuse my use of 'team' as riders wearing the same kit. I was out on the boulie last night in my club kit (which somehow has a LBS branded ALL over it) and passed two other guys coming in the other direction wearing the same kit. I gave the smile/nod, I got nothing back. I passed them on the return lap - this time I got a glance. GO TEAM HCC!


lama

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:

> Yeah there have been teams before, but I think the timing and
> management is right this time. They have established a local profile,
> seem to be well managed in a thoughtful and considered way, have solid
> funding, are serious about the business of racing and of producing a
> professional team. I don't think CCCC's team will be professional per
> se, not in the sense of paying riders and racing in Europe, but will
> be in the sense of racing the new style teams events locally, and
> racing national elite races in a more structured and uniform (in more
> ways than one) way. I think D-P is on about something a little
> different ie presenting an Australian funded, Australian populated team
> to race internationally, on the professional international circuits.
>
> It is a big deal,

In your opinion.

> because attempts have been made before (as you note)
> but have been unsuccessful for what ever reason. I think this attempt
> will be successful and will be seen as the pioneer for putting an all
> Australian pro team (an authentic pro team) on the start list for
> international pro racing. In a few years we may well have a Pro Tour
> team in the field - so long as they don't sign Basso et al a la
> Operation Puertico. Every TdF season, we whinge about not having an all
> Aust pro team out there - well here it is, in its infancy. So for me,
> it's not the usual Australian laconic "o yeah, that's nice but so
> what?" It's about a real opportunity for Australia to do what we keep
> saying should happen, but hasn't (successfully) to date, for what ever
> reason.

Personally, I find 'nationalistic' teams to be, at best, distasteful
outside of the contexts in which they make sense - Olympics, world
championships etc. Professional cycling is an international sport with
a history of moving away from national teams to international teams,
which I think is a good thing. Hansonite nationalistic fervor leaves
an unpleasant taste in my mouth. *I* don't think it's a good thing to
have a team that excludes riders based on nationality (and an
all-Australian team is exactly that, which is I think the part of it
that you're most in favour of?). I don't whinge about there not being
an Australian team at the TdF, and most of my friends don't seem to
either. I love seeing Robbie, Stu, Matt White et al racing in Europe
and holding their own on their own merits, not because of an accident
of birth. I expect to, at least with this audience, be alone with my
opinion

 

[Bleve]

gplama wrote:
> This is great news for the team and for local cycling. From my
> experience of watching and racing with the Drapac Porsche guys, they're
> a great outfit. I hope to see more of this team based stuff in the near
> future, at ALL levels. At the end of the day it means more corporate
> support and exposure for cycling.

Bugger the corporate support (who needs it? Many bike racing clubs are
awash with money they don't know how to spend already ....), but team
riding makes for better racing.

> (rant)
> Don't confuse my use of 'team' as riders wearing the same kit. I was
> out on the boulie last night in my club kit (which somehow has a LBS
> branded ALL over it) and passed two other guys coming in the other
> direction wearing the same kit. I gave the smile/nod, I got nothing
> back. I passed them on the return lap - this time I got a glance. GO
> TEAM HCC!

There are many riders in the same teams, with the same kit, who don't
get team riding Llama

Many, many riders.

 

[warrwych]

Personally, I find 'nationalistic' teams to be, at best, distasteful
outside of the contexts in which they make sense - Olympics, world
championships etc. Professional cycling is an international sport with
a history of moving away from national teams to international teams,
which I think is a good thing. Hansonite nationalistic fervor leaves
an unpleasant taste in my mouth. *I* don't think it's a good thing to
have a team that excludes riders based on nationality (and an
all-Australian team is exactly that, which is I think the part of it
that you're most in favour of?). I don't whinge about there not being
an Australian team at the TdF, and most of my friends don't seem to
either. I love seeing Robbie, Stu, Matt White et al racing in Europe
and holding their own on their own merits, not because of an accident
of birth. I expect to, at least with this audience, be alone with my
opinion

Woah baby! Hansonite?? nationalistic??? hmmm I think you and I are on totally different bike paths Bleve! To me nationalistic = jingoistic and yes, it also leaves a tinny taste in my mouth, as does Hansonite nationalistic fervour and associated xenophobia. Seems my words have been taken one step further than they were intended and distorted in the journey of your understanding them.

Further, I didn't say you personally whinge about lack of Australian teams in the TdF (umm.. it's not all about you Bleve ;-) ), but there have been comments made on this forum about such....

You wanna know what I reckon is great about D-P putting a team forward for the Euro pro circuit???? D-P are putting money into Australian cycling (yes, not NZ cycling or American cycling although god knows it needs all the help it can get), and is providing another stepping stone for talented Australian riders . O'Grady is doing something similar with the Sth Aust team. Other people have acted as agents or managers to help smooth this pathway, but D-P and O' Grady are doing it in a more structured way. So it's not about flag waving and excluding diseased Africans (see Hanson about that one), it's about providing concrete support and opportunities that are currently very limited.

 

[warrwych]

Bugger the corporate support (who needs it? Many bike racing clubs are
awash with money they don't know how to spend already ....), but team
riding makes for better racing.

>

Clubs don't spend money for a whole bunch of reasons, the least of which has to do with changing committees, other priorities than funding teams (eg building infrastructure, funding racing, development etc). Funding teams deny other members of the club access to those funds for development opportunities, support and access to resources. Is it equitable for a club to financially support a small group of elite riders at great cost to the club and its membership, and with little promise of a reasonable financial return on that support/investment? Funding teams are one way to empty bank accounts very quickly. Sporting clubs are usually not for profit, so cannot claim team support as a tax deduction, as business/corporations can.

 

[JayWoo]

Drapac-Porsche confirm pro-continental status

I remember looking these guys up after seeing them out there on the Track & the Road last year and I was impressed with their take on supporting Professional Sports people.

http://www.drapac.com.au/cycling/

I don't know anyone from the Team so I can't say if Management is coming through with the goods, but it all sounds very positive I reckon. I hope it's for the long term.

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bugger the corporate support (who needs it? Many bike racing clubs
> > are
> > awash with money they don't know how to spend already ....), but team
> > riding makes for better racing.
> >
> > >
>
> Clubs don't spend money for a whole bunch of reasons, the least of
> which has to do with changing committees, other priorities than funding
> teams (eg building infrastructure, funding racing, development etc).
> Funding teams deny other members of the club access to those funds for
> development opportunities, support and access to resources. Is it
> equitable for a club to financially support a small group of elite
> riders at great cost to the club and its membership, and with little
> promise of a reasonable financial return on that support/investment?
> Funding teams are one way to empty bank accounts very quickly. Sporting
> clubs are usually not for profit, so cannot claim team support as a tax
> deduction, as business/corporations can.

Team riding does not mean clubs having to pay a cent, it just means
team riding. At the moment there's a lot of team riding going on in
the Eastern Combine crits and races, and it's unofficially condoned,
but is technically illegal. I'd like to see that rule changed for all
grades except D grade (or the lowest grade at an event, or similar). I
don't think anyone needs to pay to allow/encourage team riding, just a
rule change, and let it happen. Watch how quickly races will start
being safer and better organised from within the field. eg: when we run
a leadout train at Glenvale it makes the last two laps a lot safer, as
the field is strung out. No money needs to be spent on it, at all.

I'm rigorously opposed to clubs spending member funds on elite riders.

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally, I find 'nationalistic' teams to be, at best, distasteful
> > outside of the contexts in which they make sense - Olympics, world
> > championships etc. Professional cycling is an international sport
> > with
> > a history of moving away from national teams to international teams,
> > which I think is a good thing. Hansonite nationalistic fervor leaves
> > an unpleasant taste in my mouth. *I* don't think it's a good thing to
> > have a team that excludes riders based on nationality (and an
> > all-Australian team is exactly that, which is I think the part of it
> > that you're most in favour of?). I don't whinge about there not being
> > an Australian team at the TdF, and most of my friends don't seem to
> > either. I love seeing Robbie, Stu, Matt White et al racing in Europe
> > and holding their own on their own merits, not because of an accident
> > of birth. I expect to, at least with this audience, be alone with my
> > opinion
>
> Woah baby! Hansonite?? nationalistic??? hmmm I think you and I are on
> totally different bike paths Bleve! To me nationalistic = jingoistic
> and yes, it also leaves a tinny taste in my mouth, as does Hansonite
> nationalistic fervour and associated xenophobia. Seems my words have
> been taken one step further than they were intended and distorted in
> the journey of your understanding them.

When you talk about an "all Australian" team, then I have a problem
with it. When you talk about a team registered through CA, then I
don't see the 'big deal', as it's just another team.

> Further, I didn't say you personally whinge about lack of Australian
> teams in the TdF (umm.. it's not all about you Bleve ;-) ), but there
> have been comments made on this forum about such....

Of course, and there often is, but loud noise does not make 'right'.

> You wanna know what I reckon is great about D-P putting a team forward
> for the Euro pro circuit???? D-P are putting money into Australian
> cycling (yes, not NZ cycling or American cycling although god knows it
> needs all the help it can get), and is providing another stepping stone
> for talented Australian riders .

Sure, and locally, what they've been doing is I think, pretty good. A
few people who've ridden with them in the past seemed to be pretty
happy with how it went, but I didn't talk that much with them about it.
It'll be interesting to see if they sponsor or promote races or
general training for riders outside their direct team.

> O'Grady is doing something similar with
> the Sth Aust team. Other people have acted as agents or managers to help
> smooth this pathway, but D-P and O' Grady are doing it in a more
> structured way.

So did (still does?) FdJ and the old Mapei development squads though?

> So it's not about flag waving and excluding diseased
> Africans (see Hanson about that one), it's about providing concrete
> support and opportunities that are currently very limited.

It is if it has to be 'all Australian', because that's a big step
backwards, IMO.

 

[warrwych]

warrwych wrote:
> Bleve Wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Personally, I find 'nationalistic' teams to be, at best, distasteful
> > outside of the contexts in which they make sense - Olympics, world
> > championships etc. Professional cycling is an international sport
> > with
> > a history of moving away from national teams to international teams,
> > which I think is a good thing. Hansonite nationalistic fervor leaves
> > an unpleasant taste in my mouth. *I* don't think it's a good thing to
> > have a team that excludes riders based on nationality (and an
> > all-Australian team is exactly that, which is I think the part of it
> > that you're most in favour of?). I don't whinge about there not being
> > an Australian team at the TdF, and most of my friends don't seem to
> > either. I love seeing Robbie, Stu, Matt White et al racing in Europe
> > and holding their own on their own merits, not because of an accident
> > of birth. I expect to, at least with this audience, be alone with my
> > opinion
>
> Woah baby! Hansonite?? nationalistic??? hmmm I think you and I are on
> totally different bike paths Bleve! To me nationalistic = jingoistic
> and yes, it also leaves a tinny taste in my mouth, as does Hansonite
> nationalistic fervour and associated xenophobia. Seems my words have
> been taken one step further than they were intended and distorted in
> the journey of your understanding them.

When you talk about an "all Australian" team, then I have a problem
with it. When you talk about a team registered through CA, then I
don't see the 'big deal', as it's just another team.

> Further, I didn't say you personally whinge about lack of Australian
> teams in the TdF (umm.. it's not all about you Bleve ;-) ), but there
> have been comments made on this forum about such....

Of course, and there often is, but loud noise does not make 'right'.

> You wanna know what I reckon is great about D-P putting a team forward
> for the Euro pro circuit???? D-P are putting money into Australian
> cycling (yes, not NZ cycling or American cycling although god knows it
> needs all the help it can get), and is providing another stepping stone
> for talented Australian riders .

Sure, and locally, what they've been doing is I think, pretty good. A
few people who've ridden with them in the past seemed to be pretty
happy with how it went, but I didn't talk that much with them about it.
It'll be interesting to see if they sponsor or promote races or
general training for riders outside their direct team.

> O'Grady is doing something similar with
> the Sth Aust team. Other people have acted as agents or managers to help
> smooth this pathway, but D-P and O' Grady are doing it in a more
> structured way.

So did (still does?) FdJ and the old Mapei development squads though?

> So it's not about flag waving and excluding diseased
> Africans (see Hanson about that one), it's about providing concrete
> support and opportunities that are currently very limited.

It is if it has to be 'all Australian', because that's a big step
backwards, IMO.

Why?

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:

> > It is if it has to be 'all Australian', because that's a big step
> > backwards, IMO.
>
> Why?

50 years or so ago, the Tour de France organisers ditched the idea of
national teams after enforcing it for some number of years (and it
basically making it virtually impossible for outsiders to have a fair
chance, no matter how talented they were). National teams, especially
ones out of context (name a nationality-pure team in the pro peloton,
not many, are there?), are, IMO, a crude appeal to the worst aspects of
tribalism, rather than to an appreciation of the sport itself and its
proponents. Why does it matter where someone is born or what it says
on their birth certificate or where they were lucky or weathly or white
enough to get a visa or citizenship for? By encouraging
nationally-pure teams you exclude many talented riders from the top
level of the sport. Would any Australian riders be riding in Europe if
all the teams were nationally based? We'd never had had a chance in
the early days. Now, there's enough Australians to make it work at top
level, but 20 years ago? What about countries that are far behind?
With maybe 2 or 3 riders at that level (eg : NZ, a lot of Asian
countries etc), if we have nationally pure teams, we make it even
harder for their riders to have a chance. Fair?

In context, where there's a predominance of established national teams
(cricket, soccer, rugby, athletics etc) then it makes sense to play
along, but where a sport has moved past that stage, I think going back
to it is not a good thing.

 

[Absent Husband]

Bleve wrote:
> warrwych wrote:
>
> > > It is if it has to be 'all Australian', because that's a big step
> > > backwards, IMO.
> >
> > Why?
>
> 50 years or so ago, the Tour de France organisers ditched the idea of
> national teams after enforcing it for some number of years (and it
> basically making it virtually impossible for outsiders to have a fair
> chance, no matter how talented they were). National teams, especially
> ones out of context (name a nationality-pure team in the pro peloton,
> not many, are there?), are, IMO, a crude appeal to the worst aspects of
> tribalism, rather than to an appreciation of the sport itself and its
> proponents. Why does it matter where someone is born or what it says
> on their birth certificate or where they were lucky or weathly or white
> enough to get a visa or citizenship for

As I understand it (and of course, I am probably wrong!!) - the only
reason there are so few (if any) 'national' Euro teams in the pro
peloton is because it is illegal to do so.

All based around the whole European Union thing. The EU said that no
employer can hire/fire based on whether you are a native or foreigner
(of another EU country). And that rule was deemed to also apply to
sporting teams (eg. cycling, soccer, blah-de-blah).

Cheers,
Abby

 

[warrwych]

warrwych wrote:

> > It is if it has to be 'all Australian', because that's a big step
> > backwards, IMO.
>
> Why?

50 years or so ago, the Tour de France organisers ditched the idea of
national teams after enforcing it for some number of years (and it
basically making it virtually impossible for outsiders to have a fair
chance, no matter how talented they were). National teams, especially
ones out of context (name a nationality-pure team in the pro peloton,
not many, are there?), are, IMO, a crude appeal to the worst aspects of
tribalism, rather than to an appreciation of the sport itself and its
proponents. Why does it matter where someone is born or what it says
on their birth certificate or where they were lucky or weathly or white
enough to get a visa or citizenship for? By encouraging
nationally-pure teams you exclude many talented riders from the top
level of the sport. Would any Australian riders be riding in Europe if
all the teams were nationally based? We'd never had had a chance in
the early days. Now, there's enough Australians to make it work at top
level, but 20 years ago? What about countries that are far behind?
With maybe 2 or 3 riders at that level (eg : NZ, a lot of Asian
countries etc), if we have nationally pure teams, we make it even
harder for their riders to have a chance. Fair?

In context, where there's a predominance of established national teams
(cricket, soccer, rugby, athletics etc) then it makes sense to play
along, but where a sport has moved past that stage, I think going back
to it is not a good thing.

I disagree with "crude tribalism" pertaining to national teams. The very nature of teams and competition elicits "crude tribalism" if you will. It has very little to do with nationalism, despite what the pollies & media commentary would like us to think. There were economic reasons why TdF organisers ditched the national teams thing, and the TdF is not quite relevent to our discussion here of Drapac-Porsche venturing into the pro continental circuit. They are different entities. I believe the reason there aren't many national teams in the pro circuit is due to economics - not many countries want to fork out that much money to support a pro team. Governments tend to support amateur sport also (or, olympic sports more specifically). Here we have a corporate sponsored team, with the corporates filling the financial role governments play in "amateur" sport via agencies such as medal factories like the AIS.

I don't see how a corporate sponsored team excludes talented individuals. AIS like programs exclude talented individuals. Exclusion would be due to limited spots available. That happens in any team, even the local under 6 ball sports team. D-P fills a gap, is creating new pathways for young riders to break into pro circuits. Heck, they wear red as team colours, not red white and blue with the Southern Cross and boxing kangaroo on their arses. The least jingoistic national (Australian) team I have seen in recent times.

 

[warrwych]

Bleve wrote:
> warrwych wrote:
>
> > > It is if it has to be 'all Australian', because that's a big step
> > > backwards, IMO.
> >
> > Why?
>
> 50 years or so ago, the Tour de France organisers ditched the idea of
> national teams after enforcing it for some number of years (and it
> basically making it virtually impossible for outsiders to have a fair
> chance, no matter how talented they were). National teams, especially
> ones out of context (name a nationality-pure team in the pro peloton,
> not many, are there?), are, IMO, a crude appeal to the worst aspects of
> tribalism, rather than to an appreciation of the sport itself and its
> proponents. Why does it matter where someone is born or what it says
> on their birth certificate or where they were lucky or weathly or white
> enough to get a visa or citizenship for

As I understand it (and of course, I am probably wrong!!) - the only
reason there are so few (if any) 'national' Euro teams in the pro
peloton is because it is illegal to do so.

All based around the whole European Union thing. The EU said that no
employer can hire/fire based on whether you are a native or foreigner
(of another EU country). And that rule was deemed to also apply to
sporting teams (eg. cycling, soccer, blah-de-blah).

Cheers,
Abby

As an aside: another aspect to consider is the Australian continent (ie a continent of one nation) compared to the European continent (a continent of many nations). Its much harder for Australia (or an Australian corporation) to present a mixed nationality team out of Australia to compete in Europe or SE Asia, as Australia has limited close neighbouring nations that can be readily/cheaply accessed for team members. Europe is full of neighbouring nations with individuals able to cross borders (boundaries) more readily than Australian neighbours can. I was wondering recently how much money the Malaysian contingent currently training in Australia must be forking out to be here.

 

[Bleve]

warrwych wrote:

> I disagree with "crude tribalism" pertaining to national teams.

Spend a day at the cricket this summer. Watch old footage of the
Olympics (see how much cover the other countries get when there's
national pride at stake). Australian teams finishing dead last or miles
in front in boring games get more cover than some really exciting
sport.

> The
> very nature of teams and competition elicits "crude tribalism" if you
> will. It has very little to do with nationalism, despite what the
> pollies & media commentary would like us to think. There were economic
> reasons why TdF organisers ditched the national teams thing, and the TdF
> is not quite relevent to our discussion here of Drapac-Porsche venturing
> into the pro continental circuit. They are different entities. I believe
> the reason there aren't many national teams in the pro circuit is due to
> economics - not many countries want to fork out that much money to
> support a pro team. Governments tend to support amateur sport also (or,
> olympic sports more specifically). Here we have a corporate sponsored
> team, with the corporates filling the financial role governments play
> in "amateur" sport via agencies such as medal factories like the AIS.
>
> I don't see how a corporate sponsored team excludes talented
> individuals.

If it's a team that picks riders on merit or potential, it doesn't, but
if it has a policy of "one nation", then it does.

> AIS like programs exclude talented individuals. Exclusion
> would be due to limited spots available.

You're missing the point, (unfortunatly) we have a world made up of
nation-states that provide various funding etc to their national teams,
but professional road cycling has, on the whole, moved past that. The
AIS stuff is, outside of the context of track cycling where there's no
professional setup like there is for road, IMO, a dinosaur that doesn't
belong, or at least, its philosophy is unfortunate. It makes sense in
amateur sports (regrettably, IMO) but not for professional cycling.

> That happens in any team, even
> the local under 6 ball sports team. D-P fills a gap, is creating new
> pathways for young riders to break into pro circuits.

Sure, and that's fine, they're welcome to do it and as you know, I'm
fully in favour of teams and team development, but I don't think teams
that have a selection policy that includes citizenship of a particular
country are a good thing in general. We don't know if they even do
have that policy, but if they do it would be, in my opinion, a step
backwards rather than forwards *IN THAT CONTEXT*.

Here's a thought experiment; replace "all Australian" with "all
Catholic" or "all Sunni" etc and see how good it looks then. One's
religion is, on the whole, a matter of where one was born and brought
up too ...

 

[cfsmtb]

I disagree with "crude tribalism" pertaining to national teams. The very nature of teams and competition elicits "crude tribalism" if you will. It has very little to do with nationalism, despite what the pollies & media commentary would like us to think. There were economic reasons why TdF organisers ditched the national teams thing, and the TdF is not quite relevent to our discussion here of Drapac-Porsche venturing into the pro continental circuit.

Another aside, to put a term on the true reasons behind the existance of events like the TdF, why is "crude commercialism" more exalted than national differences? It's all about products endorsements, branding and generally flogging stuff, whether it's L'Auto or pregnancy testing kits.