Average TdF Hematocrite Levels

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Brenton James, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. Looks like a lot of riders are preparing themselves near %50 for the start.
    Also shows that there probably isn't much any EPO use during the race.
    But I don't know what is a normal hematocrit for a UCI top 200 rider.
    Anyone know of average hematocrit levels from out of competition testing?

    "Steve McGinty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > From
    >
    > http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919
    >
    > As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
    > Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
    > departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
    > average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.
    >
    > Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
    > 13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
    > 14.6 g/dl.
    >
    > During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    > and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    > 14.1.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards!
    > Stephen
     
    Tags:


  2. gym gravity

    gym gravity Guest

    Brenton James wrote:
    > Looks like a lot of riders are preparing themselves near %50 for the start.
    > Also shows that there probably isn't much any EPO use during the race.
    > But I don't know what is a normal hematocrit for a UCI top 200 rider.
    > Anyone know of average hematocrit levels from out of competition testing?
    >

    It might still be high. I recently read that EPO stimulates
    angiogenesis (the fabled capillary development that is supposed to come
    from doing millions of miles of base work). So there would be a reason
    for someone to use it off season, and the potential for long lasting
    performance benefits independent of increased red cell volume. As with
    any protein in the genome, EPO probably has more than one role.
     
  3. From

    http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919

    As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
    Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
    departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
    average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.

    Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
    13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
    14.6 g/dl.

    During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    14.1.




    Regards!
    Stephen
     
  4. Those results make me feel good!
    my hemocrit is 43.1 and hemoglobin at 14.7 ...
    and I don't take any drugs or medicine ...and I'm 67 years old.
    hard to believe these guys are taking drugs to increase those
    particular blood levels when that much can be accomplished by a
    combination of genetics and good eating and good training.

    charlie in ct.

    On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:23:40 GMT, Steve McGinty
    <s[email protected]> wrote:

    >From
    >
    >http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919
    >
    >As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
    >Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
    >departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
    >average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.
    >
    >Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
    >13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
    >14.6 g/dl.
    >
    >During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    >and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    >14.1.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Regards!
    >Stephen
     
  5. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    "Brenton James" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Looks like a lot of riders are preparing themselves near %50 for the start.
    > Also shows that there probably isn't much any EPO use during the race.
    > But I don't know what is a normal hematocrit for a UCI top 200 rider.
    > Anyone know of average hematocrit levels from out of competition testing?


    I read an interview with dr. Ivan Van Mol from Quickstep-Davitamon.
    The Quickstep riders have an average hematocrit of 42-43. But i don't
    know when these tests were done. He also said his riders ended the
    tour with a level of 38. Good news if that is true.

    Kenny
     
  6. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    Steve McGinty <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    > and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    > 14.1.
    >


    If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
    means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
    wrong then.

    Kenny
     
  7. Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these are pro
    endurance athletes... not average citizens.

    "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Steve McGinty <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    > > and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    > > 14.1.
    > >

    >
    > If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
    > means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
    > wrong then.
    >
    > Kenny
     
  8. I wonder what the levels were in other past years?


    "Steve McGinty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > From
    >
    > http://www.uci.ch/modello.asp?1stlevelid=B&level1=2&level2=0&idnews=2919
    >
    > As far as hematology results are concerned, the Sport Security
    > Condition Commission for Sport conducted 189 controls before the
    > departure of the Tour. The average hematocrite was 44.8% and the
    > average hemoglobin was 14. 9g/dl.
    >
    > Later on, 107 additional blood controls were performed before July
    > 13th and showed averages of hematocrite of 43.3% and hemoglobin of
    > 14.6 g/dl.
    >
    > During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    > and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    > 14.1.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards!
    > Stephen
     
  9. Mark Hill

    Mark Hill Guest

    Brenton James wrote:
    > Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these
    > are pro endurance athletes... not average citizens.
    >
    > "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >> Steve McGinty <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>> During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were
    >>> performed, and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were
    >>> respectively 42.3% and 14.1.
    >>>

    >>
    >> If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
    >> means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
    >> wrong then.
    >>
    >> Kenny

    >
    >
    >

    Of all the sources I've read, normal range of hematocrit for men is
    between 40 and 50 or 52, depending on whose range you use. Normal
    hemoglobin is between 13 and 18. If you start with a hematocrit of 48
    and hemolysis induced by 3 weeks in the Tour leaves you at 45, thats not
    wrong if the overall drop in the mean is 2.5.

    Mark
     
  10. Voltaire

    Voltaire Guest

    Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
    hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in the
    mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were so
    high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and minerals. I
    do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
    lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
    hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
    magnetic.

    Vol

    "Brenton James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these are

    pro
    > endurance athletes... not average citizens.
    >
    > "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Steve McGinty <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > > > During the last week of the Tour, 80 blood controls were performed,
    > > > and the average hematocrite and hemoglobin were respectively 42.3% and
    > > > 14.1.
    > > >

    > >
    > > If you have an average of 42 during the last week of the Tour, that
    > > means there are some riders with 45 then. Obviously something is
    > > wrong then.
    > >
    > > Kenny

    >
    >
     
  11. Bob in CT

    Bob in CT Guest

    On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:58:32 GMT, Voltaire <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
    > hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in the
    > mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were
    > so
    > high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and
    > minerals. I
    > do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
    > lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
    > hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
    > magnetic.
    >
    > Vol


    One theory says that it's iron that causes a lot of heart disease. So,
    you might die earlier than "planned."



    --
    Bob in CT
    Remove ".x" to reply
     
  12. Mike Owens

    Mike Owens Guest

    "Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:58:32 GMT, Voltaire <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
    > > hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in

    the
    > > mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were
    > > so
    > > high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and
    > > minerals. I
    > > do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
    > > lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
    > > hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd become
    > > magnetic.
    > >
    > > Vol

    >
    > One theory says that it's iron that causes a lot of heart disease. So,
    > you might die earlier than "planned."
    >
    >

    It's not a theory but a major toxicity of prolonged iron
    administration/absorbtion. Lots of liver damage too. Normally a genetic
    defect in some individuals causes the problem. The advent of prolonged EPO
    use with concurrent iron supplementation has, apparently, made it not
    uncommon among riders in the peloton. My last sentence is based upon the
    report of french physicians who stated that many former french pros had
    evidence of increased iron deposition (nice way of stating
    hemochromatosis/hemosidderosous). The actual names of riders, severity of
    illness and whether they require treatment (chronic blood letting) has never
    been reported as far as I can tell.
    -Mike
     
  13. "Brenton James" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Is 45 really that unnatural? Especially when considering that these are pro
    > endurance athletes... not average citizens.
    >


    Not really. You have to realize that even to get to that level, their
    bodies typically have _something_ different about them. Some have
    very high natural Hematocrit, some don't generate lactic acid at the
    same level as most, some have insanely high VO2, etc. Sure there are
    drugs that alter these numbers, but to compare TdF athletes values
    with common couch potatoes that never amounted to anything
    athletically isn't a fair assessment.

    -a (natural hematocrit only 44)
     
  14. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "Voltaire" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
    > hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in the
    > mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they were so
    > high in 2000.


    Could be how/when your blood was drawn - hematocrit changes within minutes
    depending on posture, size of vessel, whether or not stasis is used. etc.

    > I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and minerals. I
    > do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000 and
    > lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
    > hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements?


    If, and only if, you were truly iron deficient.

    Andy Coggan
     
  15. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "Mike Owens" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:58:32 GMT, Voltaire <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Checking my lab reports I see that in 2000 my hematocrit was 48.1 and
    > > > hemoglobin 16.0. Most recently (2003) they were 44.1 and 14.9. I'm in

    > the
    > > > mid 50's and ride/race 7-9,000 miles a year. I don't know why they

    were
    > > > so
    > > > high in 2000. I've never taken any drugs other than vitamins and
    > > > minerals. I
    > > > do see a correlation between a high serum iron level of 169 in 2000

    and
    > > > lower one of 107 in 2003. Maybe all of us could have higher
    > > > hemoglobin/hematocrits if we took more iron supplements? Or we'd

    become
    > > > magnetic.
    > > >
    > > > Vol

    > >
    > > One theory says that it's iron that causes a lot of heart disease. So,
    > > you might die earlier than "planned."
    > >
    > >

    > It's not a theory but a major toxicity of prolonged iron
    > administration/absorbtion. Lots of liver damage too. Normally a genetic
    > defect in some individuals causes the problem. The advent of prolonged

    EPO
    > use with concurrent iron supplementation has, apparently, made it not
    > uncommon among riders in the peloton. My last sentence is based upon the
    > report of french physicians who stated that many former french pros had
    > evidence of increased iron deposition (nice way of stating
    > hemochromatosis/hemosidderosous).


    Alternatively, cyclists and/or their doctors simply have a tendency to dose
    themselves with iron willy-nilly, i.e., w/o any regard as to whether they
    really need it or not.

    Andy Coggan
     
  16. warren

    warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Andy
    Coggan <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Mike Owens" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]


    > > It's not a theory but a major toxicity of prolonged iron
    > > administration/absorbtion. Lots of liver damage too. Normally a genetic
    > > defect in some individuals causes the problem. The advent of prolonged

    > EPO
    > > use with concurrent iron supplementation has, apparently, made it not
    > > uncommon among riders in the peloton. My last sentence is based upon the
    > > report of french physicians who stated that many former french pros had
    > > evidence of increased iron deposition (nice way of stating
    > > hemochromatosis/hemosidderosous).

    >
    > Alternatively, cyclists and/or their doctors simply have a tendency to dose
    > themselves with iron willy-nilly, i.e., w/o any regard as to whether they
    > really need it or not.


    Since I don't eat much red meat I was advised by someone who might know
    that I should try to eat some red meat at least once a week, preferably
    not overcooked, to make sure I was getting enough hem-iron (or however
    that's written).

    Any thoughts on this part of iron needs? What does a non-meat eater do
    for hemiron needs?

    -WG
     
  17. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Alternatively, cyclists and/or their doctors simply have a tendency to

    dose
    > themselves with iron willy-nilly, i.e., w/o any regard as to whether they
    > really need it or not.


    You wouldn't be indicating that perhaps the advertisements such as
    "One-a-day Vitamins WITH IRON" as if it is some magic potion might not be
    all that beneficial to society at large?
     
  18. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:120820041814066765%[email protected]
    >
    > Since I don't eat much red meat I was advised by someone who might know
    > that I should try to eat some red meat at least once a week, preferably
    > not overcooked, to make sure I was getting enough hem-iron (or however
    > that's written).
    >
    > Any thoughts on this part of iron needs? What does a non-meat eater do
    > for hemiron needs?
    >

    We don't do anything for heme iron needs, since heme is an animal-only
    molecule. We can, however, do something about our porphyrin iron needs. Heme
    is a modification of a basic iron-cage system called porphyrin and is found
    in dark green leafy vegetables. Hence the reason why spinach is a good
    source of iron, for a vegetable. Broccoli also has porphyrin, but is known
    more for it's calcium content (calcium shares one of the same ionization
    states as iron and so can also bind the porphyrin ring). The absorption of
    iron in the gut is greatly accentuated by the ionization state of iron that
    is bound to heme, so heme iron is more bioavailable. Less so for porphyrin
    iron, but still better than a naked iron salt, since the chemistry of the
    gut can skew the ionization state of naked iron to disfavour absorption.

    I try to eat healthy for my iron, but occassionally take an iron pill when
    I'm feeling low on energy (last time was about 2 weeks ago). Although it
    claims to contain 300 mg, I optimistically hope to absorb 80-100 mg of that,
    downing it with a glass of orange juice to adjust the gut chemistry to a
    more favourable environment. My performance suffered badly one season from
    enemia (whoop, almost typed enema) before I became educated on sources of
    iron, and I remain just on the normal side of anemia today, so I try to pay
    attention to my iron intake. Now that I live in the land of plenty, I should
    just go out and buy an iron shot in the Apotheke.
     
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