Avid Shorty 6 Verses Shimano XT m737 Cantis

[Cyclopath! - Keiron]

Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
particular quandary?

In my view the Avids look nicer but also 'look more substantial' and less
like they would flex under load. The XTs look very much like the rather
generic cantis that came with my rockhopper (somewhere around mid-90s model
i think, secondhand so guessing).

Does jumping up the canti models represent the same difference as upgrading
from stock V's to more top-level V's?
This being my first set of cantis i guess i'm just wondering what sort of
performance i can expect; will these Avid/XT cantis give stopping power
equivilent to say Deore V's or better, or worse?

Comments appreciated.

 

[[email protected]]

Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
> Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
> particular quandary?
>
> In my view the Avids look nicer but also 'look more substantial' and less
> like they would flex under load. The XTs look very much like the rather
> generic cantis that came with my rockhopper (somewhere around mid-90s model
> i think, secondhand so guessing).
>
> Does jumping up the canti models represent the same difference as upgrading
> from stock V's to more top-level V's?
> This being my first set of cantis i guess i'm just wondering what sort of
> performance i can expect; will these Avid/XT cantis give stopping power
> equivilent to say Deore V's or better, or worse?
>
> Comments appreciated.

I think the most important factors in getting good canti performance
are proper set up and quality brake pads. Given both of those, cantis
will give you good performance--they're just more dependent on proper
setup than Vs.

Apart from that, I can share a personal experience. I was using Avid
Shorty 4s on my cyclocross bike awhile back (essentially the same brake
as the 6 but without the cartridge-style pad) and had severe brake
chatter on the front end, which I just could not eliminate. I finally
swapped them with some XTR cantis from my mountain bike. The XTRs
worked perfectly on the cross bike, and the Avids worked perfectly on
the rigid MTB. I suspect the shorter, stiffer fork on the MTB was a
better mate with the Avids.

I've heard others complain of chatter and squeal with Avids on 'cross
bikes as well, though plenty use them with no problems. Just something
to consider if you're using a 700c fork--if that's the case you might
want to try the XTs.

As far as performance, my XTRs work great for 'cross and my Avids were
great offroad once on the MTB. I've since gone disc, but apart from
the much-improved wet-weather performance they give me nothing over the
Avids. Even the cheap Tektro I recently installed on a commuter stops
great.

Hope this helps.

 

[G.T.]

[email protected] wrote:
> Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
>> Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
>> particular quandary?
>>
>> In my view the Avids look nicer but also 'look more substantial' and less
>> like they would flex under load. The XTs look very much like the rather
>> generic cantis that came with my rockhopper (somewhere around mid-90s model
>> i think, secondhand so guessing).
>>
>> Does jumping up the canti models represent the same difference as upgrading
>> from stock V's to more top-level V's?
>> This being my first set of cantis i guess i'm just wondering what sort of
>> performance i can expect; will these Avid/XT cantis give stopping power
>> equivilent to say Deore V's or better, or worse?
>>
>> Comments appreciated.
>
> I think the most important factors in getting good canti performance
> are proper set up and quality brake pads. Given both of those, cantis
> will give you good performance--they're just more dependent on proper
> setup than Vs.
>
> Apart from that, I can share a personal experience. I was using Avid
> Shorty 4s on my cyclocross bike awhile back (essentially the same brake
> as the 6 but without the cartridge-style pad) and had severe brake
> chatter on the front end, which I just could not eliminate. I finally
> swapped them with some XTR cantis from my mountain bike. The XTRs
> worked perfectly on the cross bike, and the Avids worked perfectly on
> the rigid MTB. I suspect the shorter, stiffer fork on the MTB was a
> better mate with the Avids.
>
> I've heard others complain of chatter and squeal with Avids on 'cross
> bikes as well, though plenty use them with no problems.

Funny you should mention this. I was going to ask for help with this
exact issue. I have Shorty 4s on my Soma and I cannot get the front
brakes to stop squealing. They don't really chatter but they sure as
hell squeal. This is with the stock pads and I have them toed in
generously.

Any suggestions for quieting them down?

Thanks,
Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[Stephen Greenwood]

Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
> Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
> particular quandary?
>
<snip>
>
> Comments appreciated.

I've no experience with the M737's, but I just installed a set of Avid
Shorty 6's on a rigid singlespeed MTB fork. Their bushings are
noticeably smoother than the ones on any of the other three types of
cantilever brakes I've used, and the arms look solid. But I have two
problems with them. First, if I set the pads pretty close to the rim, I
can't disengage the straddle cable without loosening the fine
adjustment screw at the brake lever. This problem springs from the
lower mechanical advantage of "shorty" cantilevers. Second, during
installation I stripped one of the Allen nuts that secures the brake
pad stud to the cantilever arm. It's the same size and has the same
torque specs as the anchor bolts and the stud bolts, yet it's got
noticeably shallower depth, and there's not much engagement. I called
Avid to send me a new nut, but they refused. They wanted me to warranty
it through a shop. I didn't care for that attitude.

 

[G.T.]

Stephen Greenwood wrote:
> Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
>> Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
>> particular quandary?
>>
> <snip>
>> Comments appreciated.
>
> I've no experience with the M737's, but I just installed a set of Avid
> Shorty 6's on a rigid singlespeed MTB fork. Their bushings are
> noticeably smoother than the ones on any of the other three types of
> cantilever brakes I've used, and the arms look solid. But I have two
> problems with them. First, if I set the pads pretty close to the rim, I
> can't disengage the straddle cable without loosening the fine
> adjustment screw at the brake lever. This problem springs from the
> lower mechanical advantage of "shorty" cantilevers. Second, during
> installation I stripped one of the Allen nuts that secures the brake
> pad stud to the cantilever arm. It's the same size and has the same
> torque specs as the anchor bolts and the stud bolts, yet it's got
> noticeably shallower depth, and there's not much engagement. I called
> Avid to send me a new nut, but they refused. They wanted me to warranty
> it through a shop. I didn't care for that attitude.
>

Interesting. I've called them a few times about my Avid Juicys and
they've sent me all kinds of fittings without a second thought. I never
demanded anything, they just sent the stuff out. In fact, so far every
component company I've called for minor issues they've sent little stuff
out for free without bothering me to go to a shop.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
> Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
> particular quandary?
>
> In my view the Avids look nicer but also 'look more substantial' and less
> like they would flex under load. The XTs look very much like the rather
> generic cantis that came with my rockhopper (somewhere around mid-90s model
> i think, secondhand so guessing).
>
> Does jumping up the canti models represent the same difference as upgrading
> from stock V's to more top-level V's?
> This being my first set of cantis i guess i'm just wondering what sort of
> performance i can expect; will these Avid/XT cantis give stopping power
> equivilent to say Deore V's or better, or worse?
>
> Comments appreciated.

Avids almost always squeal like banshee...and we do not sell them,
period. Tektros, shimano, both good units.

 

[Darryl C]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> Apart from that, I can share a personal experience. I was using Avid
> Shorty 4s on my cyclocross bike awhile back (essentially the same brake
> as the 6 but without the cartridge-style pad) and had severe brake
> chatter on the front end, which I just could not eliminate. I finally
> swapped them with some XTR cantis from my mountain bike. The XTRs
> worked perfectly on the cross bike, and the Avids worked perfectly on
> the rigid MTB. I suspect the shorter, stiffer fork on the MTB was a
> better mate with the Avids.
>

Interesting that you say your MTB fork is shorter than your cyclocross
fork. My MTB forks are no shorter than my road bike forks (I know
because I can put my spare road bike wheels into the MTB with plenty of
clearance) but I originally assumed that a fork for a 26x1.75 wheel
would be shorter than a fork for a 700cx23 wheel. It ain't so.

I do agree that rigidity is much better on the MTB.

cheers,
Darryl

 

[Cyclopath! - Keiron]

Cyclopath! - Keiron <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anybody have any personal experience or well reasoned guesses in this
> particular quandary?
>
> In my view the Avids look nicer but also 'look more substantial' and less
> like they would flex under load. The XTs look very much like the rather
> generic cantis that came with my rockhopper (somewhere around mid-90s
model
> i think, secondhand so guessing).
>
> Does jumping up the canti models represent the same difference as
upgrading
> from stock V's to more top-level V's?
> This being my first set of cantis i guess i'm just wondering what sort of
> performance i can expect; will these Avid/XT cantis give stopping power
> equivilent to say Deore V's or better, or worse?
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
Many thanks to all.

Seeing as there seems to be little to seperate their performance (apart from
the more superficial(?) squeaking), I've decided to go with the XT as
they're currently running at half the price of the avids.
For those who are interested http://www.chainreactioncycles.com are selling
the XTs at £15 each (i do not work for this company, just seemed like a half
decent deal to me). Thanks again.

cheers

 

[[email protected]]

Darryl C wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Apart from that, I can share a personal experience. I was using Avid
> > Shorty 4s on my cyclocross bike awhile back (essentially the same brake
> > as the 6 but without the cartridge-style pad) and had severe brake
> > chatter on the front end, which I just could not eliminate. I finally
> > swapped them with some XTR cantis from my mountain bike. The XTRs
> > worked perfectly on the cross bike, and the Avids worked perfectly on
> > the rigid MTB. I suspect the shorter, stiffer fork on the MTB was a
> > better mate with the Avids.
> >
>
> Interesting that you say your MTB fork is shorter than your cyclocross
> fork. My MTB forks are no shorter than my road bike forks (I know
> because I can put my spare road bike wheels into the MTB with plenty of
> clearance) but I originally assumed that a fork for a 26x1.75 wheel
> would be shorter than a fork for a 700cx23 wheel. It ain't so.
>
> I do agree that rigidity is much better on the MTB.
>
> cheers,
> Darryl

Huh, I just assumed they were shorter. Maybe not. Definitely much
thicker legs, though. I still assume the added stiffness was what kept
the Avid from chattering on that bike, unless it was some difference in
the canti studs or something.