Avoiding leg cramps

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by codehammer, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > Potassium deficiencies can be just as debilitatiing. The average
    > American diet isnt that great in potassium. Many fruit have good
    > potassium content.


    Most food labels don't even list potassium. It makes it hard to know what
    you're getting.

    --
    Phil M.
     


  2. codehammer

    codehammer Guest

    "I wasn't making any judgements on your fitness, etc. " Yes, thanks,
    BMI is a sore point with my doc and I.
    Thanks for the advice.
     
  3. Dennis Cox

    Dennis Cox Guest

    I had cramps at WR too starting around mile 20 on Swiss Ave. I ran 4 20
    mile training runs leading up to it including Chicago in October. I cramped
    there too and I believe it is nutrition related. The temperature was
    perfect at WR. The thing I'm gonna try in my next race which is a 50k trail
    run is to take in more salt during the run. I tried to rely on gel and
    powerade and that just doesn't do it for me.

    Good luck in your next race.
    Dennis

    "codehammer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I ran my first marathon Dec. 11, 2005 (Dallas, White Rock). All was
    > good until mile 18, where leg cramps started. I was able to complete
    > the marathon, although not in the 4:30 I hoped for. I did stay hydrated
    > (water and Gaterade), had enrgy gells as well. At 6'1", 220 lbs, are
    > cramps something I will have to deal with, or is there something I can
    > do to avoid them?
    >
     
  4. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Dennis Cox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I had cramps at WR too starting around mile 20 on Swiss Ave. I ran 4
    >20 mile training runs leading up to it including Chicago in October. I
    >cramped there too and I believe it is nutrition related. The
    >temperature was perfect at WR. The thing I'm gonna try in my next race
    >which is a 50k trail run is to take in more salt during the run. I
    >tried to rely on gel and powerade and that just doesn't do it for me.


    At least trails races have aid stations with salt, drinks and food.

    -DF
     
  5. Ed Prochak

    Ed Prochak Guest

    steve common wrote:
    > "codehammer" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > is salt really the answer, sounds very 'old school'.

    >
    > <personal opinion not shared by all here>
    > For most westerners, there's way more salt than needed in everyday food.
    > So, unless you were poorly fed beforehand, there's no use popping salt
    > caps during a marathon - unless it's in the desert and you're taking 6
    > hours to finish or something wild.


    Our diet may have excess salt (mine used to), but the body is pretty
    eficient at removing excess. So I don't think a salty meal the night
    before is going to result in a significant salt reserve the next
    morning. It's not like it accumulates in the body.

    But I'm not sure how strongly I disagree with the conclusion that salt
    tablets are not needed.

    with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
    I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
    levels.

    ed.
     
  6. Tim Downie

    Tim Downie Guest

    Ed Prochak wrote:

    > with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
    > I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
    > levels.


    Because it would be undrinkable!

    Tim
     
  7. Tim Downie wrote:
    > Ed Prochak wrote:
    >> with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
    >> I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
    >> levels.

    >
    > Because it would be undrinkable!


    FWIW, I don't find their "endurance formula" with twice the salt to be
    any more or less drinkable than the original recipe. At least, not
    when drinking a few oz at a time during road races.
     
  8. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
    > I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
    > levels.


    Ed, because it would taste like shit and no one would drink it and thus
    not buy it and therefore not make money and piss of the stockholders.
    Keep it cheap and sweet and it sells. 'Tis the American way.

    -Doug
     
  9. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Tim Downie wrote:
    >> Ed Prochak wrote:
    >>> with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially
    >>> created,
    >>> I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
    >>> levels.

    >>
    >> Because it would be undrinkable!

    >
    > FWIW, I don't find their "endurance formula" with twice the salt to be
    > any more or less drinkable than the original recipe. At least, not
    > when drinking a few oz at a time during road races.


    But it still doesn't have enough. It's still is the same old crap with
    just a hint more salt.

    -DF
     
  10. Ed Prochak

    Ed Prochak Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > with the research supposedly done when gaterade was initially created,
    > > I wonder why the elctrolyte concentrations aren't closer to our body
    > > levels.

    >
    > Ed, because it would taste like shit and no one would drink it and thus
    > not buy it and therefore not make money and piss of the stockholders.
    > Keep it cheap and sweet and it sells. 'Tis the American way.
    >
    > -Doug


    I thought gaterade was formulated to help their football team play
    better. Marketting to America was an afterthought.

    The concentration seems to me would be close to the salty tase of
    blood. Not a great taste, but it it isn't barf time. Then again, a few
    drops of blood from a cut lip might not represent the taste of several
    mouthfulls.

    Tim might have references to studies, but I haven't tasted anything
    with the concentration like that AFAIK. What would the salt level be?
    Saltier than say pickle juice?

    Maybe that's the solution, rather than sugar, add seasonings.

    <fake ad>
    .... and our new GATROLYTE, besides isotonic electrolytes levels for
    sodium, potasium, and calcium,
    has two great new tastes: Kosher Dill !! and
    for those cold winter months: Ceyanne Pepper !!
    It gives you the balance your body needs with a taste your mouth will
    crave.
    Avaible soon at...
    <end fake ad>

    Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
    think it necessarily is bad tasting.

    As my wife likes to point out: you didn't know if you liked chocolate
    until you tried it.
    Ed
     
  11. On 24 Feb 2006 20:39:37 -0800, "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >As my wife likes to point out: you didn't know if you liked chocolate
    >until you tried it.
    > Ed


    She still running around 380lbs Ed?
     
  12. steve common

    steve common Guest

    "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Tim might have references to studies, but I haven't tasted anything
    >with the concentration like that AFAIK. What would the salt level be?
    >Saltier than say pickle juice?


    Blood plasma has a lot more salt than Gatorade I think, something like
    3200mg/l (140mmol/l at 23g/mol is that right anybody)?

    Gatorade is
    Sodium 464 mg/l
    Potassium 127 mg/l
    Carbs 59000 mg/l

    By comparison, the Sodium content (mostly as bicarbonate) of Vichy
    Saint-Yorre sparkling mineral water is a lot higher.
    Sodium 1708 mg/l
    Bicarb 4368 mg/l
    Potassium 132 mg/l.
    Calcium 90 mg/l
    Magnesium 11 mg/l

    which is why it gets used a lot by athletes over here, specially in
    Summer. It's salty but nothing like a mouthful of pickle juice :)

    I put energy drink powder in it to get an after-workout recovery drink and
    for carbo loading before marathons. I often use the water alone as my
    morning "top-up" fluid before shorter races.
     
  13. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I thought gaterade was formulated to help their football team play
    > better. Marketting to America was an afterthought.


    I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
    maraketing with an endurance angle. With the additional publicity in the
    running community about hyponatremia and people croaking, I think they
    are looking for a new market. I know they have a fairly sophisticated
    lab but the corporations still live on profits. :)

    If it was for their football team were are talking about a game that
    lasts for an hour with lots of breaks with offense and defense riding
    the pine. In a marathon, especaily those out there for more than 4 hours
    the juice is woefully short of salt. Toss in a hot day and that's when
    people get into real trouble.


    > The concentration seems to me would be close to the salty tase of
    > blood. Not a great taste, but it it isn't barf time.


    How long do you think a runner can take the taste before he feels the
    urge to barf? Think of ocean water being your source of fluid. Taste,
    be it salt, sweet or specific flavors tend to get repulsive over time.
    Once you hit that stage you're in deep shit. You need to drink yet
    can't. So many of us to avoid this delemma will do plain water, coke,
    Mountain dew, Sports drinks for a variety flavors. We take out salt in
    caps to avoid any taste issue. As long as we can get some water down we
    can get our salt.


    > Saltier than say pickle juice?


    Maybe ocean water or worse.

    > Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
    > think it necessarily is bad tasting.


    It's still Gatorade and I'm not a good person to ask about how their
    products taste. :) Other than some additional salt it's the same cheap
    simple sugar crap. If they wanted to make a real endurance drink it
    would be made from maltodextrin, but maltodextrin is expensive yada
    yada.

    The amount of salt they added will likely help some people. IMO it is
    marketing smoke to make more money. Not much different than shoe
    companies changing model colors each year.

    -DougF
     
  14. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Ed Prochak wrote:

    >
    > Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
    > think it necessarily is bad tasting.
    >

    Ed, Mix it up yourself and test it. Nothing says we have to use
    commercial drinks and some folks do mix their own drinks from, say,
    water, honey or sugar or maltodextrin, salt, or whatever.

    Dot

    --
    "Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
    matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter
     
  15. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:

    > "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>I thought gaterade was formulated to help their football team play
    >>better. Marketting to America was an afterthought.

    >
    >
    > I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
    > maraketing with an endurance angle. With the additional publicity in the
    > running community about hyponatremia and people croaking, I think they
    > are looking for a new market. I know they have a fairly sophisticated
    > lab but the corporations still live on profits. :)


    I could be wrong, but I think the original gatorade was for the football
    team, and that's what's been available for many years. Then they
    developed a new Endurance formula for longer endurance (greater than 1
    hr?) that's been out maybe a year (?) - with more electrolytes, but not
    sure about carbs. I was going to check, but their website is freakin'
    slow to load and rather obtuse in giving me the info.

    Dot

    --
    "Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
    matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter
     
  16. Ed Prochak

    Ed Prochak Guest

    Dot wrote:
    > Ed Prochak wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Really my question is has any body TRIED it? I don't know, but I don't
    > > think it necessarily is bad tasting.
    > >

    > Ed, Mix it up yourself and test it. Nothing says we have to use
    > commercial drinks and some folks do mix their own drinks from, say,
    > water, honey or sugar or maltodextrin, salt, or whatever.
    >
    > Dot
    >
    > --
    > "Remorse - a good trail always makes you feel sorry that it is over no
    > matter how tired you are" - Matt Carpenter


    since steve posted the numbers, I may try it. Gatorade and their like
    seem to work okay for me, but maybe there is a better formula. I'm just
    wondering how to measure it out. I don't have a lab scale handy. I
    womder how much is in those little salt packets you get at the fast
    food places?

    I'll report back if I get it mixed. (3.2g/l sodium. but still wondering
    how/were to get the potasium).

    Science awaits.
    ed
     
  17. steve common

    steve common Guest

    "Ed Prochak" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'll report back if I get it mixed. (3.2g/l sodium. but still wondering
    >how/were to get the potasium).


    Don't mix a whole litre cos I'm sure you're gonna chuck it down the
    privvy when you've tasted it :)
     
  18. Hey Ed,
    You mentioned your wife, and I was wondering if she'd dropped any of
    that 369lbs she has packed on over the years?
     
  19. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > I'm not sure of their motivation for the new formula other than pure
    > maraketing with an endurance angle.


    Where's Sam? He hasn't posted for several months. Didn't he do some work
    for Gatorade at one time?

    --
    Phil M.
     
  20. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    [email protected]#duh?att.net wrote:

    > I could be wrong, but I think the original gatorade was for the football
    > team, and that's what's been available for many years. Then they
    > developed a new Endurance formula for longer endurance (greater than 1
    > hr?) that's been out maybe a year (?) - with more electrolytes, but not
    > sure about carbs. I was going to check, but their website is freakin'
    > slow to load and rather obtuse in giving me the info.


    This is what I have:

    Gatorade Gatorade Endurance
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    kcal 75 75
    Sodium 150 300
    Potassium 45 135
    Carbs 21 21

    --
    Phil M.
     
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