Bacchetta Strada v. Vision R64 - 7" shorter wheel base?

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Johlde, May 28, 2003.

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  1. Johlde

    Johlde Guest

    I'm about to purchase a new recumbent and have narrowed the choices to a Strada and R64. I've test
    ridden both and like them both, but like the handlebars of the Vision better - they seem less bulky
    and seem to keep my body position more areodynamic. The biggest difference I can tell between these
    bikes is the shorter wheel base of the R64 - almost 7" less - 40" compared to about 47" on the
    Strada. This makes the bike more responsive which I like. Does this also make the R64 a better hill
    climber than the Strada or have any other impacts besides on the responsiveness? I currenlty have a
    Lightning Phantom and I'm pleased with its hill climbing ability. I think both the Strada and R64
    will be faster on the flats and downhills than the Phantom (right?), but I don't want to lose my
    climbing ability of the Phantom. Will the Strada or R64 be as good of climbers as the Phantom? Also,
    any tidbits or recommendations between the Strada and R64 would be welcome.

    Thanks.

    Jason
     
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  2. >The biggest difference I can tell between these bikes is the shorter wheel base of the R64 -
    >almost 7" less - 40" compared to about 47" on the Strada. This makes the bike more responsive
    >which I like.

    Have you tried to lock the front wheel on paved road? Does that make the rear wheel go up? I noticed
    that my Vision R42 was too "responsive" in this sense when i put a v-brake on it. Don't know about
    R64 though.
     
  3. Vision and Bachetta both make outstanding two-big-wheel-recumbents. I test rode both, as you did,
    and I think you sum up the differences very well. Boils down to personal choice, I guess. Like you,
    I owned and liked my former Lightning ( a P-38) and that may be why I found the Vision more
    comfortable.

    --
    Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "johlde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm about to purchase a new recumbent and have narrowed the choices to a Strada and R64. I've test
    > ridden both and like them both, but like the handlebars of the Vision better - they seem less
    > bulky and seem to keep my body position more areodynamic. The biggest difference I can tell
    > between these bikes is the shorter wheel base of the R64 - almost 7" less - 40" compared to about
    > 47" on the Strada. This makes the bike more responsive which I like. Does this also make the R64 a
    > better hill climber than the Strada or have any other impacts besides on the responsiveness? I
    > currenlty have a Lightning Phantom and I'm pleased with its hill climbing ability. I think both
    > the Strada and R64 will be faster on the flats and downhills than the Phantom (right?), but I
    > don't want to lose my climbing ability of the Phantom. Will the Strada or R64 be as good of
    > climbers as the Phantom? Also, any tidbits or recommendations between the Strada and R64 would be
    > welcome.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Jason
     
  4. On downhills if you hit about 38 and cross into the 40s or more you will appreciate the LWB aspects
    of the STRADA. It also dives into turns and is less likely to feel like your gonna have to take an
    turn slower and higher or possibly lose it. The Strada has wheel versatility...makes it a dual
    purpose machine. Touring training, use beefy 559's with a durable tire. Speed use lighter 571's with
    performance tires. Personal preference of bars for me has become the Bacchetta bars/ Superman
    position. Aerodynamics? As far as the aerodynamics of the Bacchetta I leave that explaination to RC
    Pinto. Here is what I have done to a number of STRADAS and Corsas. Since all the Bacchettas use the
    same stock stem and have different size frames and riders are proportioned differently, some wish to
    modify the stem, the bars and even the Glideflex. For many riders IMO the stem is too long which
    puts the bars too high and in many cases above the what would be considered inside the aerodynamic
    profile or stamp. The cure is to shorten the stem. However, this needs to be done after you have
    resolved all seat position issues,,,well only if you decrease the knee clearance as much as I had on
    my Strada M5 and then my AERO. I shortened one on a Corsa down so far that it required shortening
    the Glideflex an inch and the rider/owner still had more than enough knee clearance. The stock
    Bacchetta bars flair out at the grips and have a very long grip range. This is required for some
    riders who have a natural tendency to kick their knees out, they need the clearance, some do not.
    The cure, well if your adventurous you can use the Jude's backyard method of bar modification to do
    away with the flair. It involves 2X4s, and sturdy vise and a hefty piece of pipe. The grip reach can
    be shortened by using a pipe cutter or hacksaw, pipe cutter is my choice. Bacchetta also has
    available from dealers a stem with less bend which I use on my AERO and bars with no flair and a
    shorter grip reach which I also use. So before you rule out a Strada, realize that getting any bent
    optimized for you can be "work in progress" for 1K or more with number of good long flat and
    climbing rides. Climbing? The Strada climbs with the best of them. I have ridden a P-38 and a Saber
    liked the Saber...the BB was too low for me on the P-38, the owner was fast on this highly
    personalized P-38, I could out climb him but it was a horserace on the flats.
    --
    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "johlde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm about to purchase a new recumbent and have narrowed the choices to a Strada and R64. I've test
    > ridden both and like them both, but like the handlebars of the Vision better - they seem less
    > bulky and seem to keep my body position more areodynamic. The biggest difference I can tell
    > between these bikes is the shorter wheel base of the R64 - almost 7" less - 40" compared to about
    > 47" on the Strada. This makes the bike more responsive which I like. Does this also make the R64 a
    > better hill climber than the Strada or have any other impacts besides on the responsiveness? I
    > currenlty have a Lightning Phantom and I'm pleased with its hill climbing ability. I think both
    > the Strada and R64 will be faster on the flats and downhills than the Phantom (right?), but I
    > don't want to lose my climbing ability of the Phantom. Will the Strada or R64 be as good of
    > climbers as the Phantom? Also, any tidbits or recommendations between the Strada and R64 would be
    > welcome.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Jason
     
  5. Cbb

    Cbb Guest

    Jason, The shorter wheel base may make the Saber a worse climber as the boom length will be longer
    and therefore have more flex unless compensated in other ways. However both bikes are reported to be
    excellent climbers as they are lighter than the average bent. The bit about hard braking lifting the
    rear wheel of the Saber may also be of some concern but still should be less noticable than a
    standard road bike. The Strada will just be more able brake extremely hard while keeping the wheels
    on the ground. Thats one thing I like about my Baron with 53" wheel base and low center of gravity.
    I can take full advantage of the disc brakes if necessary. Craig

    [email protected] (johlde) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I'm about to purchase a new recumbent and have narrowed the choices to a Strada and R64. I've test
    > ridden both and like them both, but like the handlebars of the Vision better - they seem less
    > bulky and seem to keep my body position more areodynamic. The biggest difference I can tell
    > between these bikes is the shorter wheel base of the R64 - almost 7" less - 40" compared to about
    > 47" on the Strada. This makes the bike more responsive which I like. Does this also make the R64 a
    > better hill climber than the Strada or have any other impacts besides on the responsiveness? I
    > currenlty have a Lightning Phantom and I'm pleased with its hill climbing ability. I think both
    > the Strada and R64 will be faster on the flats and downhills than the Phantom (right?), but I
    > don't want to lose my climbing ability of the Phantom. Will the Strada or R64 be as good of
    > climbers as the Phantom? Also, any tidbits or recommendations between the Strada and R64 would be
    > welcome.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Jason
     
  6. Geoff Adams

    Geoff Adams Guest

    Jason,

    I just posted a quick review of the Saber last week. Subject heading: "Vision Saber impressions".
    There's also a thread from last year comparing the Strada/Saber - just search the newsgroup with
    keywords 'Strada' and 'Saber' - there's about 80 posts there. I think the Saber climbs beautifully -
    but I can't compare to the P38. The faster I go on the Saber, the more steady it feels. You can
    throw this bike into the curves and really lean it over. Here's my original post.
    **************

    Folks,

    The comments from people in the group have been very useful to me as a new bent rider. I thought I
    would post my impressions of the Vision R-64 Saber which I got recently - maybe it will be useful to
    anybody thinking about this bike.

    I am 6'5", 190 lbs. Most of my riding consists of daily 10 mile workout blasts and occasional longer
    rides of 40-60 miles. I have been riding an HPV Speedmachine since October, and have been on the
    Saber for a month.... about 400 miles.

    HANDLING: The thing that most impresses me about this bike is the agility. It has the handling of a
    road bike with all the advantages of the recumbent riding position. With that responsive handling
    comes pedal steer - probably due to the short wheelbase, and long boom. It is more noticeable at
    slow speeds. Over 10 mph the pedal steer is less of an issue. The problem I have with the pedal
    steer is that it makes developing a smooth cadence more of a challenge because the bike imposes
    oscillation on the pedaling action. I find myself occasionally falling into a subtle "pump" if I let
    the pedal steering get the best of me. It's a very minor thing.

    MOUNTING: Hoping on and off the bike quickly is very easy - easier than the low Speedmachine. Also,
    at stops, the higher position means my down leg is in a more extended position than on the
    Speedmachine. I always felt I couldn't see well form the Spdmchn also. I know there are people who
    swear by their lowracres, even on the roads as commuting machines, but I always felt like I couldn't
    see well from the Spdmchn. No problem on the highracer. For flying around in traffic, the Saber is
    as manageable as my Giant Hybrid.

    HANDLEBARS: When I tested this bike and the Bachetta Corsa, the Saber handlebar position was very
    natural because of my experience with the Speedmachine. I have to say the Corsa felt fantastic too.
    I realize that the superman position has the aero advantage - and that people get acclimated to it
    very quickly. There is a lot of adjustability in the stem/handlebar arrangement on the Saber. A
    tweener bar set up is possible by reversing the stem. I haven't tried this yet, but it looks like it
    could work very well.

    SPEED: I guess this is a matter of training and condition, but I feel that on my 10 mile ride I am
    2-4 mph quicker on average than the Speedmachine on the same course. The Speedmachine is 37 lbs.,
    the Saber is 27. That and the fact that the suspension on the Speedmachine tends to absorb some
    energy, would probably explain some of the difference, but also the Saber's lower BB to seat height
    seems a better match for me. I can generate more power on this bike.

    SEAT: I know there's a whole lot of discussion about seats on the group. The Vision seat is
    extremely comfortable for
    me. So is the HPV fiberglass seat. But the Vision seat is more comfortable on long rides (for me).
    Very subjective, this seat stuff.

    mf. CORSA: I test rode the Saber first and it felt so natural that it really biased me. I tried to
    resist that bias. But I failed. I managed to get the Corsa seat angle and handlebars adjusted
    to a good spot for me and once I did I found that this bike tracks beautifully. (Oh, I sat on a
    Strada once, the seat was curved in all the wrong places... so that was never a contender). I
    detected no significant pedal steer. This bike felt stable from 0 mph on up. Off the line it
    just went right where it was pointed - better than the Saber. Very solid. Both bikes
    accelerated fast and handled hills beautifully. This was a very difficult decision. I think it
    was the tweener bars (or the fact that I just COULDN'T ride a yellow bike. No.) The Saber bars
    fell into place, keeping my arms loose and responsive. On the tweener bars I felt like my arms
    were locked. I KNOW this is really a matter of familiarity, and I am jealous of all the
    Bachetta riders. Hey, like, who says this is the last bent I'll get? (Ti AERO as soon as my
    ship comes in!)

    That's all I can think of for now.

    --
    -Geoff Adams Providence, RI
     
  7. On 28 May 2003 19:01:17 -0700, [email protected] (johlde) wrote:

    >I've test ridden both and like them both, but like the handlebars of the Vision better - they seem
    >less bulky and seem to keep my body position more areodynamic.

    Handlebar preference is a personal thing, but I just want to point out that Bacchetta bars are
    more aerodynamic than they look. The frontal area of your arms are minimized when they are
    outstretched to the front. If you bend your arm (e.g. on a Vision handlebar) your entire upper arm
    faces the airflow.

    Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/
     
  8. Aharon

    Aharon Guest

    I just bought a Strada, and also was quite intersted in the R64, having owned two R40s. Alas no LBS
    had the 64, and I was hot to trot. I love the Bachetta. It's nicely made, handles very well, and is
    definitely the step up from the R40 that I was hoping it would be. The comfort is superb, and once
    you get used to certain big-wheel traits (being higher off the ground), you begin to appreciate the
    advantages.

    From what I understand, the Strada is a tad heavier than the Vision, but the Bachetta frame is a
    little stiffer.

    I wish I had had both bikes to ride and compare, but short of that, and having ridden and loved
    Visions for 10 years, I still was very happy with the Strada decision.

    Good luck!
     
  9. The Strada is a versitile bike. Since it will accomidate both 559 and 571 wheels you can have a set
    of lighter wheels for the go fast times. Additionally it is easily fitted with an M5 seat another
    weight drop ability. Am I biased, yes. I'm having fun with the versatility of the Bacchetta's.
    Current project? SUPER CORSA...Mirror Black frame, CF Fork, CF seat, Alex 320Ti wheelset (rider
    weight limited to <190 lbs) could be Dura Ace SRAM mix or SRAM XO. Oh the fun!!!

    --
    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 Home of the "Bacchetta Custom Shop" "Aharon" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    > I just bought a Strada, and also was quite intersted in the R64, having owned two R40s. Alas no
    > LBS had the 64, and I was hot to trot. I love the Bachetta. It's nicely made, handles very well,
    > and is definitely the step up from the R40 that I was hoping it would be. The comfort is superb,
    > and once you get used to certain big-wheel traits (being higher off the ground), you begin to
    > appreciate the advantages.
    >
    > From what I understand, the Strada is a tad heavier than the Vision, but the Bachetta frame is a
    > little stiffer.
    >
    > I wish I had had both bikes to ride and compare, but short of that, and having ridden and loved
    > Visions for 10 years, I still was very happy with the Strada decision.
    >
    > Good luck!
     
  10. Pj

    Pj Guest

    "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > The Strada is a versitile bike. Since it will accomidate both 559 and 571 wheels you can have a
    > set of lighter wheels for the go fast times. Additionally it is easily fitted with an M5 seat
    > another weight drop ability. Am I biased, yes. I'm having fun with the versatility of the
    > Bacchetta's. Current project? SUPER CORSA...Mirror Black frame, CF Fork, CF seat, Alex 320Ti
    > wheelset (rider weight limited to <190 lbs) could be Dura Ace SRAM mix or SRAM XO. Oh the fun!!!
    >
    > --
    > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
    > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 Home of the "Bacchetta Custom Shop" "Aharon" <[email protected]>
    > wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I just bought a Strada, and also was quite intersted in the R64,

    One of the nice features of the Strada it is a great bike out of the box as it is, as well as
    serving as a great platform from which to upgrade to get even more speed out of it.

    I (and my wallet) are just about done with the upgrades, which include, 571 Velocity Aerohead wheels
    with American Classic hubs, XTR rear derailer, SRAM 11-32 9.0 cassette, the narrower Bacchetta bars
    that come on the Aero, 165 crankset, Kinesis Road Carbon fork, and very soon (thank you Mark and
    Zach) the M5 carbon fiber seat.

    Pat Mc

    > > having owned two R40s. Alas no LBS had the 64, and I was hot to trot. I love the Bachetta. It's
    > > nicely made, handles very well, and is definitely the step up from the R40 that I was hoping it
    > > would be. The comfort is superb, and once you get used to certain big-wheel traits (being higher
    > > off the ground), you begin to appreciate the advantages.
    > >
    > > From what I understand, the Strada is a tad heavier than the Vision, but the Bachetta frame is a
    > > little stiffer.
    > >
    > > I wish I had had both bikes to ride and compare, but short of that, and having ridden and loved
    > > Visions for 10 years, I still was very happy with the Strada decision.
    > >
    > > Good luck!
     
  11. Marci Taylor

    Marci Taylor Guest

    [email protected] (johlde) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I'm about to purchase a new recumbent and have narrowed the choices to a Strada and R64. I've test
    > ridden both and like them both, but like the handlebars of the Vision better - they seem less
    > bulky and seem to keep my body position more areodynamic. The biggest difference I can tell
    > between these bikes is the shorter wheel base of the R64 - almost 7" less - 40" compared to about
    > 47" on the Strada. This makes the bike more responsive which I like. Does this also make the R64 a
    > better hill climber than the Strada or have any other impacts besides on the responsiveness? I
    > currenlty have a Lightning Phantom and I'm pleased with its hill climbing ability. I think both
    > the Strada and R64 will be faster on the flats and downhills than the Phantom (right?), but I
    > don't want to lose my climbing ability of the Phantom. Will the Strada or R64 be as good of
    > climbers as the Phantom? Also, any tidbits or recommendations between the Strada and R64 would be
    > welcome.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Jason

    Hi Jason: I own a vision R64 and really love it. I have not ridden any of the Bachetta bikes. I
    picked the vision for it's more user friendly BB to seat realtionship. The Bachetta big wheel bikes
    have an 8 to 10 inch difference in the bb to seat, I think. My saber has about 3 inches difference.
    For me, extremely extreme bikes often cause me problems on the long rides like numb toes and some
    real laid back seats cause me some neck discomfort. Thus for me, the Vision represented the "sweet
    spot" in the big wheel recumbent. Not overly extreme but yet, very fast, cool looking and I could
    put spinergy carbon 4 spoke wheels on it which are my favorite wheels. I am very happy with it and
    it's performance. It does climb better than any recumbent that I have owned so far. I did own a P-38
    and a Phantom both. I think they climbed close to the same as the R-64 Saber. Anyway, good luck with
    whichever bike you choose. Marci
     
  12. Cbb

    Cbb Guest

    I find that the curve at the top of seats such as Optima hardshell seats lessens the stress on you
    neck when reclining. I ride my Baron with the seat fully reclined and no head rest without any
    stiffness after the first hundred miles of the season. If I wanted to make the seat more upright I
    wouldn't have any problems but I like being as laid back as possible. Craig

    [email protected] (PJ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > The Strada is a versitile bike. Since it will accomidate both 559 and 571 wheels you can have a
    > > set of lighter wheels for the go fast times. Additionally it is easily fitted with an M5 seat
    > > another weight drop ability. Am I biased, yes. I'm having fun with the versatility of the
    > > Bacchetta's. Current project? SUPER CORSA...Mirror Black frame, CF Fork, CF seat, Alex 320Ti
    > > wheelset (rider weight limited to <190 lbs) could be Dura Ace SRAM mix or SRAM XO. Oh the fun!!!
    > >
    > > --
    > > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
    > > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 Home of the "Bacchetta Custom Shop" "Aharon" <[email protected]>
    > > wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > I just bought a Strada, and also was quite intersted in the R64,
    >
    >
    > One of the nice features of the Strada it is a great bike out of the box as it is, as well as
    > serving as a great platform from which to upgrade to get even more speed out of it.
    >
    > I (and my wallet) are just about done with the upgrades, which include, 571 Velocity Aerohead
    > wheels with American Classic hubs, XTR rear derailer, SRAM 11-32 9.0 cassette, the narrower
    > Bacchetta bars that come on the Aero, 165 crankset, Kinesis Road Carbon fork, and very soon (thank
    > you Mark and Zach) the M5 carbon fiber seat.
    >
    > Pat Mc
    >
    >
    >
    > > > having owned two R40s. Alas no LBS had the 64, and I was hot to trot. I love the Bachetta.
    > > > It's nicely made, handles very well, and is definitely the step up from the R40 that I was
    > > > hoping it would be. The comfort is superb, and once you get used to certain big-wheel traits
    > > > (being higher off the ground), you begin to appreciate the advantages.
    > > >
    > > > From what I understand, the Strada is a tad heavier than the Vision, but the Bachetta frame is
    > > > a little stiffer.
    > > >
    > > > I wish I had had both bikes to ride and compare, but short of that, and having ridden and
    > > > loved Visions for 10 years, I still was very happy with the Strada decision.
    > > >
    > > > Good luck!
     
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