Bacchetta vs. Hostel Shoppe

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Alan Mushnick, Apr 28, 2003.

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  1. How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
    copyright rules or something? Alan
     
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  2. What's there to copyright? There have been plenty of monotube bikes before the Bacchetta.

    Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
  3. Alan Mushnick wrote:
    > How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
    > copyright rules or something?

    The Hostel Shoppe bikes (Volae) are actually a lot closer to the Vision bikes than to the
    Bacchetta. The frame is similar to the Vision's, but with a longer wheelbase, a hardshell seat, and
    "drop bars".
     
  4. bentcruiser

    bentcruiser New Member

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    The HS is not actually copying the Bacchetta. The frames are made by ATP. Though I do think they are pretty close. Not close enough for me to like the Volae better than the Bacchetta, however.

    Derek
     
  5. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
    > copyright rules or something? Alan
    >
    I believe that copyrights only apply to printed material. What you are refering to are patents.
    AFAIK the Bacchetta Monotube design has not been patented. Since Bacchetta is not unique and
    definitely not first in that design, I doubt that the U.S. Patent Office would even grant them a
    patent. Bacchetta might have some claim to the unique teardrop shape monotube.

    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  6. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    Why all this search for controversey?

    First off, as many have pointed out, there were single-stick 'bents before Bacchetta.

    The bikes aren't nearly as similar as people seem to think. Take a good look at the images, and
    you'll see plenty of difference. And they're even less similar once you have seen them up close and
    ridden them.

    Major differences include:

    Both are steel, single stick. Similarity ends there. One is ovalized (or egg-shaped) and the other
    is round. Rear wheel stays are straight on Bs, angled on Vs. Wheelbase and seat angle are different.
    Seat stays are different. All Vs come with hardshells. Componentry is different. Seat retention is
    much different on the V.Chain management is a bit different.

    With the little experience I've had on both bike lines, they're both good, and both deserve to be
    looked at when making your 'bent buying decision.
     
  7. Seth Jayson wrote:
    >
    > the V.Chain management is a bit different.

    I was actually hoping to setup something similar to the Volae's chain management on my Bacchetta.
    The Bacchetta's idler wears out very quickly, the chain rubs on itself on the way coming and going,
    and the metal tab which is part of the frame is already bent out of shape due to the stress on it.
    The Volae's chainline *looks* much cleaner and effective.
     
  8. Don

    Don Guest

    Dave, You are correct. When I look at the Phantom I see a Haluzak that has been sat upon by someone
    too heavy. A bend here or there is not proprietary.

    "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > What's there to copyright? There have been plenty of monotube bikes before the Bacchetta.
    >
    > Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
    > ===========================================================
    > Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    > http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    > ===========================================================
     
  9. It seems odd to me that this would seem like such an issue in the recumbent world. Have you ever
    noticed how similar a Colnago is to a DeRosa to a Pinarello to an Eddy Merckx..... Just my $.02 Best
    regards, Bruce Shannahoff

    Cletus Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > > How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't
    > > there copyright rules or something? Alan
    > >
    > I believe that copyrights only apply to printed material. What you are refering to are patents.
    > AFAIK the Bacchetta Monotube design has not been patented. Since Bacchetta is not unique and
    > definitely not first in that design, I doubt that the U.S. Patent Office would even grant them a
    > patent. Bacchetta might have some claim to the unique teardrop shape monotube.
     
  10. Hillel

    Hillel Guest

    Also, the Strada can use 559 or 650C wheels. The Volae big wheels models are all 650C.
     
  11. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    > It seems odd to me that this would seem like such an issue in the recumbent world. Have you ever
    > noticed how similar a Colnago is to a DeRosa to a Pinarello to an Eddy Merckx.....

    dude, they have TOTALLY different decals on them...
     
  12. I'm fairly knowledgable about this. There is no infringement. There are parts of the Bacchetta that
    I believe are patented. There are none of these parts on the Bacchettas. The Voalre frames made by
    Vision are simply a longer wheelbase boomless modified version of existing products. The seat
    attachment and adjustment remains to be put to long term end user use. Having been to HostelShoppe a
    few times I have guessed that 70% of his business is mail order. Many a currently available bent has
    been purchased from HS. Most purchasers have prior experience or have test ridden the product
    somewhere prior to purchase. How do you do this with a product that is unavailable unless you know
    someone that has one or take a trip to Stevens Point. Bacchetta on the other hand is increasing
    their dealer base and is determined to remain dealer based. To this aim they have a team on the road
    visiting various areas in support of their dealers. I have heard complaints about direct contact
    problems with ALL the major bent companies and many of the smaller ones. However, the negitive
    relationships are more apt to be posted than the many more positive experiences. Bents are getting
    more positive response in recient times, more than I expected. Customers are saying..."You know, I
    think these could be the bikes of the future"

    Sure I have a vested interest since I am a dealer of bents. However, Those of you who have met me
    know that my interest in recumbents is more personal than business.

    Get out and ride!

    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Alan Mushnick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't there
    > copyright rules or something? Alan
     
  13. I meant on my last post on this subject to say that none of the Bacchetta innovations such as the
    Delrin seat clamp are on the HS entry which requires a teardrop tube. In reality other than the
    monotube "stick" construction AND the similar wheelbase, the bikes are quite different. I have never
    been into "Bent Bashing" I'm an each to their own person. However, as with Bacchetta the jury/court
    of bentdom opinion will soon be bringing in a verdict to this entry. Like most before it it will
    have its initial flaws and also its lovers and haters.

    Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
    Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Jude T. McGloin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm fairly knowledgable about this. There is no infringement. There are parts of the
    > Bacchetta that I believe are patented. There are
    none
    > of these parts on the Bacchettas. The Voalre frames made by Vision are simply a longer wheelbase
    > boomless modified version of existing products. The seat attachment and adjustment remains to be
    > put to long
    term
    > end user use. Having been to HostelShoppe a few times I have guessed that 70%
    of
    > his business is mail order. Many a currently available bent has been purchased from HS. Most
    > purchasers have prior experience or have test ridden the product somewhere prior to purchase. How
    > do you do this with a product that is unavailable unless you know someone that has one or take a
    > trip to Stevens Point. Bacchetta on the other hand is increasing their dealer base and is
    > determined to remain dealer based. To this aim they have a team on the road visiting various areas
    > in support of their dealers. I have heard complaints about direct contact problems with ALL the
    > major bent companies and many of the smaller ones. However, the
    negitive
    > relationships are more apt to be posted than the many more positive experiences. Bents are getting
    > more positive response in recient times,
    more
    > than I expected. Customers are saying..."You know, I think these could be the bikes of the future"
    >
    > Sure I have a vested interest since I am a dealer of bents. However, Those of you who have met me
    > know that my interest in recumbents is more
    personal
    > than business.
    >
    > Get out and ride!
    >
    > Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and
    > Sports, Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Alan Mushnick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't
    > > there copyright rules or something? Alan
     
  14. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Hillel wrote:
    >
    > Also, the Strada can use 559 or 650C wheels. The Volae big wheels models are all 650C.

    A "650C" tire is the same as an ISO 571-mm tire. With a bead seat diameter difference of 12-mm,
    the two difference size wheels can be exchanged as long as there is at least 6-mm of radial
    brake pad adjustment travel available (and sufficient frame clearance on bikes designed for ISO
    559-mm wheels).

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  15. M..Leuck

    M..Leuck Guest

    "Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > > How does the Hostel Shoppe get away with copying the Bacchetta without any problems? Aren't
    > > there copyright rules or something? Alan
    > >
    > I believe that copyrights only apply to printed material. What you are
    refering to are patents.
    > AFAIK the Bacchetta Monotube design has not been patented. Since Bacchetta
    is not unique and
    > definitely not first in that design, I doubt that the U.S. Patent Office
    would even grant them
    > a patent. Bacchetta might have some claim to the unique teardrop shape
    monotube.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -

    Not saying that Bacchetta would ever do this but the fact that a company wasn't first in a design
    doesn't mean they won't try (and get) a patent. Late last year Southwestern Bell "patented" linking
    of one web page to another even though its been done for the last 15 years now. The internet is full
    of this kind of stupidity for the last couple of years
     
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