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Recumbent bicycles
Published
8 March 2003
Last activity
4 October 2003
Original author
Lorenzo L. Love
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115
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  1. Larry Varney said:
    Lorenzo L. Love said:
    Larry Varney said:

    Lorenzo L. Love wrote:

    > ...when you can get lighter, faster, better bikes for much less?

    Lighter, yes. Faster? It has not been established how fast the BiGHA is. I've asked you how
    fast it is, but you refuse to supply a figure. Wny is that? I thought so. As for better -
    that's so subjective as to be meaningless. Better as in what respect? Can you define the term
    so that it applies universally? No? I didn't think so. The FACT is, all that can be
    established beyond conjecture, opinion and self-serving tub-thumping, is that yes, there are
    bikes out there that weigh less than the BiGHA and cost less. No one has disputed that. And
    all, save a couple or so, see the point of trying to argue that which hasn't been established,
    that of the speed of the bike, or if some other bike is "better". But if there is anyone out
    there who can state factually and with substantiation just how fast the BiGHA is, I'm sure
    we'd all like to know that figure.

    I asked before: Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the
    Vision VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy
    Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you
    tell us if the Bigha is a fast as any bike in it's price range? Why are you so afraid to answer
    such simple questions? Why are you so fervently defending a bike that you yourself would not buy?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

    I am not defending any bike, but pointing out the obvious: NONE of these bikes have a set speed,
    NONE are inherently faster than the other. Or can you provide the speeds of the bikes you
    mentioned? No? Why not? Yes, the BiGHA is as fast as ny bike in its price range. In fact, it's
    slower. And faster. Or do you have proof to the contrary? And try to understand this: I am not
    defending the bike. And I have NEVER siad that I would not buy it. Can you understand that? Do
    you need someone to explain it to you? Do you need this written in a different language? Talk is
    indeed cheap, it's understanding that is expensive. That probably explains why it is in such
    short supply. But perhaps I'm being too harsh on you. Perhaps English is not your first
    language, and perhaps it's not even your second. Perhaps you have some medical condition that
    inhibits your understanding. If this is the case, then I'm sorry that I have expected too much
    from you.

    If you think that for any given rider a Bigha is as fast as the cheaper Vision VR50, RANS Stratus,
    Easy Racer Tour Easy or the Lighting Phantom, then you have very little knowledge of recumbents.
    This is not only a fervent defense, but a nonsensical one. You can't make a bike faster by wishing
    it, it's a matter of weight and geometry. Maybe you do have such a poor grasp of the physics of
    bicycles to really think that a Bigha could be as fast as these other, cheaper, lighter bikes. If
    so, you are just the type Bigha wants as a customer. Get you order in now.

    Is there anyone else who really thinks that for any given rider a Bigha is as fast as the cheaper
    Vision VR50, RANS Stratus, Easy Racer Tour Easy or the Lighting Phantom?

    Does anyone here think the Bigha is worth spending $3000.00 of your own money on?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest of us could not succeed.” Mark Twain

  2. "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Larry Varney said:
    Lorenzo L. Love said:

    ...when you can get lighter, faster, better bikes for much less?

    Lighter, yes. Faster? It has not been established how fast the BiGHA
    is. I've asked you how fast it is, but you refuse to supply a figure. Wny is that? I thought so.
    As for better - that's so subjective as to be meaningless. Better as in what respect? Can
    you define the term so that it applies universally? No? I didn't think so. The FACT is, all
    that can be established beyond conjecture, opinion and self-serving tub-thumping, is that
    yes, there are bikes out there that weigh less than the BiGHA and cost less. No one has
    disputed that. And all, save a couple or so, see the point of trying to argue that which
    hasn't been established, that of the speed of the bike, or if some other bike is "better".
    But if there is anyone out there who can state factually and with substantiation just how
    fast the BiGHA is, I'm sure we'd all like to know that figure.

    I asked before: Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the Vision
    VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour
    Easy at about
    2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you tell us if the Bigha is a
    fast as any bike in it's price range? Why are you so afraid to answer such simple questions? Why
    are you so fervently defending a bike that you yourself would not buy?

    I'm gonna go to the local Bent shop and perform an experiment. I'll line up all their bents in the
    parking lot, back off about 100 yards, and fire a starter's pistol. First bike there wins. That
    oughta prove which is the fastest bike.

    Price will be controlled in the first iteration, but subsequent heats will be open to all comers.
    Unfortunately, there are no Bighas there, but there are some old, heavy Cannondales and bikeEs.

    I'll post the results as soon as I get them. Mr Love, would three significant digits be sufficient.
    I thought so.

    Why do you persist in asking such a stupid question? Who cares? Can you say obsession? I thought so.

    Tom Thompson

  3. Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Why are you afraid of such a simple question?

    Right back at you. Why are you refusing to answer my questions? Don't keep repeating yourself,
    don't keep rattling off the prices and fractions - just answer the questions. Give an honest
    straightforward answer. How fast have you ridden all of the bikes you've used as examples? How
    fast have you ridden on the BiGHA? Are you afraid to admit that you continue to attack something
    of which you have absolutely no knowledge? That you continue to attack a bicycle that you have
    never seen, much less ridden? What are your answers?
    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarney

  4. skip must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    I was thinking of Ken Lays best buddy Mr. Bush.

    Sorry. You said corrupt President and that threw me off.

    skip


    Could have been nearly any of them, just like if I said "corrupt Prime Minister" or
    politician etc....

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  5. Lorenzo L. Love must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:
    Larry Varney said:
    Lorenzo L. Love said:

    If you think that for any given rider a Bigha is as fast as the cheaper Vision VR50, RANS
    Stratus, Easy Racer Tour Easy or the Lighting Phantom, then you have very little knowledge of
    recumbents. This is not only a fervent defense, but a nonsensical one. You can't make a bike
    faster by wishing it, it's a matter of weight and geometry. Maybe you do have such a poor grasp
    of the physics of bicycles to really think that a Bigha could be as fast as these other,
    cheaper, lighter bikes. If so, you are just the type Bigha wants as a customer. Get you order
    in now.

    Enough of this "for any given rider" nonsense, Love. Let's get specific. How fast have YOU ridden
    the VR50, the Stratus, the Tour Easy and the Phantom? How fast have YOU ridden the BiGHA? Do YOU
    have any knowedge, any first-hand, actual knowledge, of ANY of these bikes? How fast have YOU
    ridden each of them, and how fast have YOU ridden the BiGHA? Of course, the real question is why
    you conitnue to attack something that you have no knowledge of, and accuse others of things they
    have not said or done.

    Why are you afraid of such a simple question? Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00
    Bigha is as fast as the Vision VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the
    price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about 2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half
    the price? Just give a honest straightforward answer. Anyone with a basic understanding of bicycle
    physics can answer this without actually riding any of the bikes by comparing weight and geometry.
    So what is your answer?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand


    Down hill?
    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  6. Lorenzo L. Love said:

    It is irrelevant whether I have ridden any of those bikes.

    Try to muster up just a little integrity and honestly answer the question.

    Lorenzo L. Love

    Quoted message said:


    Talk is cheap

    You refuse to answer any questions, and yet you continute to demand that others not only answer
    yours, but answer them on your terms. Curious. You bring in other bikes to compare to the BiGHA,
    and you believe that it is "irrelevant" whether or not you have ever ridden any of them. This
    seems so simple, and is understood by so many people, that your belief that any valid comparison
    does not require actual knowledge or experience, is almost incomprehensible. I have answered your
    questions. You have not answered mine. You have no actual knowledge of the BiGHA, and apparently
    you believe that a similar lack of knowledge concerning the other bikes you keep bringing in does
    not make your argument any less valid. And you're right. Anything less than zero is just as
    invalid as zero.

    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarney

  7. Ehm. How about not replying to mr. Love's standard message for a change? Then this thread would have
    been over long ago. Same goes for anyone optimistic enough to try to argue with mr. Dolan or mr.
    Sherman for that matter.

    Mikael

  8. Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:

    Ehm. How about not replying to mr. Love's standard message for a change? Then this thread would
    have been over long ago. Same goes for anyone optimistic enough to try to argue with mr. Dolan or
    mr. Sherman for that matter.

    Mikael


    You foreigners are all the same. :-)

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  9. "Ian" skrev ...

    Quoted message said:

    You foreigners are all the same. :-)

    Oo you callin' foreigner, ya pommy [censored]? ;-) I thought we were all europeans. (cough cough)

    Well cept the yankee imperialist pigdogs. ;o)

    M.

  10. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Ehm. How about not replying to mr. Love's standard message for a change? Then this thread would
    have been over long ago. Same goes for anyone optimistic enough to try to argue with mr. Dolan or
    mr. Sherman for that matter.

    Mikael


    Mr. Love posted a question way back in this thread that nobody has stepped forward and answered. He
    asked if anyone has actually plunked down three grand for a Bigha. This has brought about
    attacks on him and posts of support for the bike but still no answer. The only person who
    admitted to having one was Bryan who has a test bike. So, apparently the answer is that noone
    in this group has purchaed or plans to putchase a Bigha or those who have are afraid or ashamed
    to admit it.

    --
    ___________________
    John Rooker KC2KQT Rochester, NY

  11. Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:


    "Ian" skrev ...

    Quoted message said:

    You foreigners are all the same. :-)

    Oo you callin' foreigner, ya pommy [censored]? ;-) I thought we were all europeans. (cough cough)

    Well cept the yankee imperialist pigdogs. ;o)

    M.


    Screw you ya Scandy fishface, the Brits are not European, they are British, if they were European
    they would speak more than one language and not be ignorant [censored], where do you think the yanks
    got their bad attitude from? I'll be Arabic for the purposes of this conversation btw. :-)

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  12. "Ian" skrev...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be Arabic for the purposes of this conversation btw. :-)

    Ah yes, but would you buy a Bigha...? Didn't think so.

    Oh wait. That was someone elses line. :-)

    M.

  13. Ian

    Foreigners are absolutely necessary for the American economy to grow and prosper.

    We need to have foreigners to buy all the latest Military hardware America can produce and then in 3
    years after it has all been paid for...we go in and destroy it.

    *****************************
    "Ian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:

    Ehm. How about not replying to mr. Love's standard message for a change? Then this thread would
    have been over long ago. Same goes for anyone optimistic enough to try to argue with mr. Dolan
    or mr. Sherman for that matter.

    Mikael


    You foreigners are all the same. :-)

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  14. pigdogs is wrong...

    the more common slur is Lapdogs as in "Yankee Imperialist Lapdogs of the Satanic Capitalist Regime".
    First time someone yelled that in my face was in 1968...and I replied (Well Hell YES Pilgrim...so
    like what is yer point).

    My quick John "the Duke" Wayne reply totally messed up their train of hatefull thought.
    ****************************

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Ian" skrev ...

    Quoted message said:

    You foreigners are all the same. :-)

    Oo you callin' foreigner, ya pommy [censored]? ;-) I thought we were all europeans. (cough cough)

    Well cept the yankee imperialist pigdogs. ;o)

    M.

  15. Mikael Seierup must be edykated coz e writed:

    Quoted message said:


    "Ian" skrev...

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be Arabic for the purposes of this conversation btw. :-)

    Ah yes, but would you buy a Bigha...? Didn't think so.

    Oh wait. That was someone elses line. :-)

    M.


    If they made a trike, I might, indicators and gadgetry sounds like fun, plus it looks like an
    integrated product, a lot of recumbents look like home builts.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  16. Ian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    skip must be edykated coz e writed:

    And Ian must be an idiot because he can't spell.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was thinking of Ken Lays best buddy Mr. Bush.

    Sorry. You said corrupt President and that threw me off.

    skip


    Could have been nearly any of them, just like if I said "corrupt Prime Minister" or
    politician etc....

    Or maybe Ian is corrupt which is why he thinks all the rest of the world is corrupt. Or is it just
    prime ministers and politicians? But of course his first thought was that our American president was
    corrupt. He hates America and I doubt if he likes England much better. He surely won't like la belle
    France, which he has indicated that he is going to emigrate to, as corruptness is rife there. Maybe
    he would be happier if he emigrated to the land of his paternal ancestors, that beacon of light
    otherwise known as Syria.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

  17. "John Rooker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Ehm. How about not replying to mr. Love's standard message for a change? Then this thread would
    have been over long ago. Same goes for anyone optimistic enough to try to argue with mr. Dolan
    or mr. Sherman for that matter.

    Mikael


    Mr. Love posted a question way back in this thread that nobody has stepped forward and answered.
    He asked if anyone has actually plunked down three grand for a Bigha. This has brought about
    attacks on him and posts of support for the bike but still no answer. The only person who
    admitted to having one was Bryan who has a test bike. So, apparently the answer is that noone
    in this group has purchaed or plans to putchase a Bigha or those who have are afraid or
    ashamed to admit it.

    --

    The closest Mr. Love came to getting an answer from this group was Mr. Wong saying he would gladly
    buy a Bigha if he had the money (think lottery tickets Mr. Wong) and Ian saying he would like to
    have one so he could diddle with the gadgets (check out the current thread on the downside of
    diddling with gadgets while riding). But it seems Ian is too busy with important projects to own a
    Bigha at the present time.

    They say any publicity is good publicity as long as they get your name right, which in this case
    hardly anyone did. It's BiGHA. But hopefully no one will go Sherman over it.

    Unless I'm overlooking something that's about it.

    skip

  18. How fast is a Bigha? I may want one.

    "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Larry Varney said:
    Lorenzo L. Love said:

    ...when you can get lighter, faster, better bikes for much less?

    Lighter, yes. Faster? It has not been established how fast the BiGHA
    is. I've asked you how fast it is, but you refuse to supply a figure. Wny is that? I thought so.
    As for better - that's so subjective as to be meaningless. Better as in what respect? Can
    you define the term so that it applies universally? No? I didn't think so. The FACT is, all
    that can be established beyond conjecture, opinion and self-serving tub-thumping, is that
    yes, there are bikes out there that weigh less than the BiGHA and cost less. No one has
    disputed that. And all, save a couple or so, see the point of trying to argue that which
    hasn't been established, that of the speed of the bike, or if some other bike is "better".
    But if there is anyone out there who can state factually and with substantiation just how
    fast the BiGHA is, I'm sure we'd all like to know that figure.

    I asked before: Do you think that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the Vision
    VR50 at about half the price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour
    Easy at about
    2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? Can you tell us if the Bigha is a
    fast as any bike in it's price range? Why are you so afraid to answer such simple questions? Why
    are you so fervently defending a bike that you yourself would not buy?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

  19. Larry Varney said:
    Lorenzo L. Love said:

    It is irrelevant whether I have ridden any of those bikes.

    Try to muster up just a little integrity and honestly answer the question.

    Lorenzo L. Love

    Quoted message said:


    Talk is cheap

    You refuse to answer any questions, and yet you continute to demand that others not only answer
    yours, but answer them on your terms. Curious. You bring in other bikes to compare to the BiGHA,
    and you believe that it is "irrelevant" whether or not you have ever ridden any of them. This
    seems so simple, and is understood by so many people, that your belief that any valid comparison
    does not require actual knowledge or experience, is almost incomprehensible. I have answered
    your questions. You have not answered mine. You have no actual knowledge of the BiGHA, and
    apparently you believe that a similar lack of knowledge concerning the other bikes you keep
    bringing in does not make your argument any less valid. And you're right. Anything less than
    zero is just as invalid as zero.

    Still trying to win an argument by selective editing I see. What are your beliefs? Do you believe
    that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the Vision VR50 at about half the price?
    Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about
    2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? You haven't answered that. Why does
    that give you such problems? It's really a pretty easy question. Weight and geometry.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand

  20. Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Still trying to win an argument by selective editing I see. What are your beliefs? Do you believe
    that for any given rider, the $3000.00 Bigha is as fast as the Vision VR50 at about half the
    price? Or the RANS Stratus at about half the price? Or the Easy Racer Tour Easy at about
    2/3 the price? Or the Lighting Phantom at about half the price? You haven't answered that. Why
    does that give you such problems? It's really a pretty easy question. Weight and geometry.

    Nope, just cutting down on the incessant, repeitive [censored]. There is no argument to win, just
    questions that you continue to ask, no matter how many times I answer them. And, you continue to
    refuse to answer any quesitons I ask. As for what are my beliefs, here are some I put forth back
    when this nonsense first started. I believe that the value of a bike is based on different things
    to different people. I believe that the speed of a bike is not simply dependent on weight and
    "geometry". And my firmest belief, and one that you obviously do not share, is that I will not
    consider purchasing a bike without having ridden it first, if at all possible. I have answered
    your questions. Will you answer mine? Why does that give you such problems?

    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarney

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