Bad Bike Shop Manners??

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.marketplace' started by NYC XYZ, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. Steve Katona

    Steve Katona Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.
    >
    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    > "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    > conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    > customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    > recumbents....
    >
    > Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    > asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    > see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.
    >
    > Three weeks now and no response.
    >
    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!
    >
    > Are my expectations out of order?
    >
    > The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    > Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    > on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    > can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    > week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    > me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    > for "good as new" bikes.
    >
    > Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    > right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    > convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    > indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    > I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.
    >
    > Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
    > nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
    > got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
    > you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
    > While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone
    > and asked him where it was. He told me he put it outside the shop --
    > ??? I asked him what he meant. He nodded incredulously at me and
    > repeated that he left my tire cap outside. Not only was it a bizzare
    > enough thing if true, but doubly strange was the fact that it wasn't
    > true, he never touched my bike until I brought it in. So I asked him
    > how could that be...he responded that, duh, how? I used my hands, you
    > know, hands, and unscrewed it and gently placed it on the sidewalk. So
    > I'm just really mystified at what's going on -- him swiping my card and
    > all all this time -- and I ask him why would he do that.
    >
    > He goes, well, where do you put your TV in your place? I'm like, what?
    > Where do you put your TV, he repeated. I asked him why. He said that
    > just as I have my reasons for placing things in my apartment, so he has
    > his reasons for organizing his shop the way he does (actually, it's
    > owned by a sour old fart, Roger, who's absent half the time -- another
    > neurotic cat).
    >
    > Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >
    > What's even more bizzare is that there was a line of customers behind
    > me, every one non-plussed by the brief conversation.
    >
    > Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
    > some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
    > employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?
    >
    > Honestly, I don't get it. Now I'll have to contact the fella over in
    > State College, PA, for the Velotechnik SMGTe. I am not awarding ~$3K
    > (maybe even more, if I don't contain my newfound lust of Rohloff
    > gearboxes and other exotica) to folks who don't care enough for it to
    > return a goddamned phone call or e-mail!
    >

    For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one like
    Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
    http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
    I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more than
    12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone conversations and
    dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed. Highest quality. No churning.
    Always alternative suggestions for highest end components when
    suggested. I could go on and on but 'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles
    from him.
     


  2. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:28:53 -0800, Qui si parla
    Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:

    > No. It does seem that most bike shops are filled with either dolts or
    > surly putzes that are there to prove something...some sort of a power trip
    > about the 'knowledgeable vs the not' or something. Even in Boulder we hear
    > stories about some shops, and why they'll never go in 'there' again. I
    > think great bike shops or stores, kinda by definition, don't do well in
    > 'talking', I think sometimes from pressure to sell, sell, sell.


    Well, the good ones do both well, but people with that combination
    of skills can make more money almost anywhere else.

    These days the quality of bike shop staff, like coffeehouse staff, may be
    explained by the "bad barista index":

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5073210

    Matt O.
     
  3. Jeff Starr

    Jeff Starr Guest

    On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona <[email protected]>
    wrote:


    >>

    >For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one like
    >Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
    >http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
    >I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more than
    >12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone conversations and
    >dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed. Highest quality. No churning.
    >Always alternative suggestions for highest end components when
    >suggested. I could go on and on but 'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles
    >from him.


    If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about recommending
    NYC??? to him.

    This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does some
    trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats swamping, and
    mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things constantly happen
    to one person, you have to consider the person.


    Life is Good!
    Jeff
     
  4. The Wogster

    The Wogster Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.
    >
    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    > "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    > conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    > customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    > recumbents....
    >
    > Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    > asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    > see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.
    >
    > Three weeks now and no response.
    >
    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!
    >
    > Are my expectations out of order?
    >
    > The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    > Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    > on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    > can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    > week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    > me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    > for "good as new" bikes.
    >
    > Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    > right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    > convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    > indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    > I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.


    Maybe it's your city, the folks at Bayview Cycle, here in Toronto, seem
    to be nice enough, and I didn't buy my bike there (long story)... I
    have bought a couple of other things there... More expensive then
    buying accessories at Mountain Equipment Co-op downtown, but then they
    are only a 20 minute ride away, where as M.E.C. is a 1 hour
    bus/subway/streetcar away....

    I may take my bike to Bayview in the spring, the BB needs to be cleaned
    and lubed, and they say they will do it as part of a tuneup for $40.

    I think the real issue, is to find an LBS that is close enough to where
    you live, that you can and do go there on a regular basis, even if it's
    just to see what's new. If your regular enough that the guy working
    there, sees you come in, and calls you by name, then you are a regular,
    and regulars always get better service, then walk in customers, it's the
    way things are....

    W
     
  5. Steve Katona

    Steve Katona Guest

    Jeff Starr wrote:
    > On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >> For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one like
    >> Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
    >> http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
    >> I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more than
    >> 12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone conversations and
    >> dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed. Highest quality. No churning.
    >> Always alternative suggestions for highest end components when
    >> suggested. I could go on and on but 'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles
    >>from him.

    >
    > If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about recommending
    > NYC??? to him.
    >
    > This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does some
    > trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats swamping, and
    > mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things constantly happen
    > to one person, you have to consider the person.
    >
    >
    > Life is Good!
    > Jeff

    I doubted NYC would travel to Woodland Park but I just wanted to get
    this good word out on Angletech. Here in Albuquerque we have both kinds
    of bike shop employees--the pierced, tattooed (btw, I have 36 and both
    ears but no eye brows pierced) bleached in high heeled doc martins with
    attitude and the shop guy or girl who will deal with you without
    judgemental b.s. and a desire to help. Some folks don't realize that
    help without a purchase should be requested in small doses and
    graciously received. When a potential purchase amounts to => than $2000
    the customer does have a right to a little more time than what it takes
    to show a few pairs of shoes.
    Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64?
    Steve
     
  6. > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > suicide, they don't go outta biz.


    Would be nice if that could always be the case, but... there are times when
    a conversation goes from "customer" mode to "chat" and, realistically, the
    customer whose needs haven't been served take precedence over someone in
    "chat" mode. It really shouldn't be that big a deal either; it's not that
    difficult to gracefully disconnect yourself from such a conversation by
    letting the person know that you'd like to hear more about it later, but
    right now you've got to take care of another customer. I don't think that's
    rude, and I'll bet the majority of people (who you might have to cut a bit
    short) would respect that, since they've been in the shoes of the person who
    has to wait... and wait... and wait... while someone is having a friendly
    conversation that appears to have little to do with business.

    In all seriousness, there are very few things that can be resolved over the
    phone better in a 15-minute conversation than 5. In most cases, anything
    that detailed needs to be dealt with in-person, in the store.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    >
    > Rich wrote:
    >> NYC XYZ wrote:
    >>
    >> > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?

    >>
    >> Maybe he went out of business talking to people that weren't buying
    >> stuff.
    >>
    >>
    >> > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    >> > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    >> > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    >> > door.

    >>
    >> How much of his time did you expect? He's in business, and his first
    >> priority should be the people that made the effort to get to his store.
    >> He sounds friendly enough to me.

    >
    > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > suicide, they don't go outta biz.
    >
    >>
    >> > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    >> > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    >> > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    >> > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >> >
    >> > WTF?!

    >>
    >> They're running a business, not a chat room.
    >>
    >> > Are my expectations out of order?

    >>
    >> I think so.
    >>
    >> Rich

    >
     
  7. ellis

    ellis Guest

    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.
    >
    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door. He never answered 90% of my questions -- very basic ones like
    > "how much does it cost?" -- though it was an interesting enough
    > conversation otherwise where he told me about his bike races, his
    > customer from Australia, the guy who works for him that specializes in
    > recumbents....
    >
    > Before he excused himself with the near-equivalent of French Leave, I
    > asked him whether I might wrap things up via e-mail. I could almost
    > see him shrug casually -- "sure," he said.
    >
    > Three weeks now and no response.
    >
    > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    >
    > WTF?!
    >
    > Are my expectations out of order?
    >
    > The LBS on the next block from me where I got my Trek 1000c, the Bike
    > Stop in Astoria, was another crazy place. The owner himself insisted
    > on selling me the display model. It was in good condition, far as I
    > can tell (though by the time I'd noticed some marks and scratches, a
    > week had gone by and I couldn't be totally sure they weren't caused by
    > me somehow), but apparently all bike shops insist you pay "new" prices
    > for "good as new" bikes.
    >
    > Small matter that, sure enough -- but then the headset wasn't quite
    > right. Turned out to be defective. But Gus, the owner, tried to
    > convince me that its being loose was nothing to worry about! And
    > indeed, I could ride the bike fine...but it just didn't feel right that
    > I had a moving part where things are tight on other bikes.
    >
    > Or another LBS, in Manhattan, the Pedal Pushers...Evan over there is a
    > nutcase. He's very charming and talkative like Peter Stull, but he's
    > got a weird switch which somehow gets flipped and he'll go schizo on
    > you with his passive-agressive act. One day I came in for a flat fix.
    > While he was ringing up the sale, I noticed that my tire cap was gone
    > and asked him where it was. He told me he put it outside the shop --
    > ??? I asked him what he meant. He nodded incredulously at me and
    > repeated that he left my tire cap outside. Not only was it a bizzare
    > enough thing if true, but doubly strange was the fact that it wasn't
    > true, he never touched my bike until I brought it in. So I asked him
    > how could that be...he responded that, duh, how? I used my hands, you
    > know, hands, and unscrewed it and gently placed it on the sidewalk. So
    > I'm just really mystified at what's going on -- him swiping my card and
    > all all this time -- and I ask him why would he do that.
    >
    > He goes, well, where do you put your TV in your place? I'm like, what?
    > Where do you put your TV, he repeated. I asked him why. He said that
    > just as I have my reasons for placing things in my apartment, so he has
    > his reasons for organizing his shop the way he does (actually, it's
    > owned by a sour old fart, Roger, who's absent half the time -- another
    > neurotic cat).
    >
    > Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >
    > What's even more bizzare is that there was a line of customers behind
    > me, every one non-plussed by the brief conversation.
    >
    > Tell me, is there some bike shop etiquette I didn't observe? Is there
    > some kind of secret bike shop salute or handshake I should have
    > employed? Did I bother them somehow by smiling?
    >
    > Honestly, I don't get it. Now I'll have to contact the fella over in
    > State College, PA, for the Velotechnik SMGTe. I am not awarding ~$3K
    > (maybe even more, if I don't contain my newfound lust of Rohloff
    > gearboxes and other exotica) to folks who don't care enough for it to
    > return a goddamned phone call or e-mail!
    >



    Thirteen minute conversation? The longest I've ever talked to a bike shop
    on the phone was a minute. A bike shop owner is not a bartender.

    "Do you have this in stock? OK, good."
    "How much?"
    "What time you open until?"
    "Thanks. See ya."

    I buy lot of stuff online and do all my own work.
     
  8. Ben Pfaff

    Ben Pfaff Guest

    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> writes:

    > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    >
    > Actually, I've never known one myself, but somehow I get the feeling
    > that these guys are at least supposed to care where you spend your
    > money.


    Once in a while I get irritated with my favorite bike shop. So
    then I go to the one across the street. Or the one down the
    street half a mile. Or the one down the street a couple of miles
    the other way. Or the one down the street a couple of miles
    past that one.

    Sounds like you just need to find a shop you're comfortable with.
    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email protected]
    web: http://benpfaff.org
     
  9. NYC XYZ <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?


    I just came from there -- it's Bicycle Station on Vanderbilt
    Ave. in Brooklyn. The owner, Mike, is friendly, knowledgeable
    and refreshingly competent. Prices are even very reasonable.

    (I'm not related, just a satisfied customer.)

    Here's the info in Google local:
    http://bicyclestation.notlong.com

    --
    Steven O'Neill [email protected]
    Brooklyn, NY
     
  10. "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > door.


    Well, my feeling is, I'd always deal with a customer in the shop before I
    dealt with one on the phone. The person in the shop has made the effort to
    at least come in, and is more likely to buy.

    Also, I confess, I am not much of a phone person. I want to see and handle
    the merchandise. Also, I appreciate the f2f interaction with the people in
    the shop. Maybe you're more of a phone/email type?

    --
    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky
    http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
    Sponsor me for the Big Climb! See: www.active.com/donate/cpetersky06
    See the books I've set free at:
    http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
     
  11. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 20 Jan 2006 20:28:06 -0800, "Capri" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >You gotta take your bike into a bike shop to fix a flat? No wonder no
    >one wants to spend much time with you.


    A most common repair in a bike shop.
     
  12. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > >> Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?

    > >
    > > These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?

    >
    > I was thinking that myself. Peter Stull is definitely into recumbents, as
    > well as the other shop he mentioned (with recumbent in their name). The
    > place he got the Trek 1000 sounded pretty normal; there really aren't such
    > things as "floor models" in bike shops... because you can't properly build a
    > bike on the spot, you need to have your inventory built up ahead of time.
    > And the guy "stealing" valve caps? A common inside-joke at shops is the way
    > customers believe there's some big black market for valve caps, and the
    > reason we leave them off (which happens accidentally more often than it
    > should) is so we can score big bucks selling them.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com



    Your shop *sells* valve caps? I knew it's tough to make a living with a
    bike shop but damn! <g>

    Regards,
    Bob Hunt
     
  13. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Steve Katona <[email protected]> wrote:
    :> Jeff Starr wrote:
    :>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona <[email protected]>
    :>> wrote:
    :>>
    :>>
    :>>> For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one
    :>>> like Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
    :>>> http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
    :>>> I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more
    :>>> than 12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone
    :>>> conversations and dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed.
    :>>> Highest quality. No churning. Always alternative suggestions for
    :>>> highest end components when suggested. I could go on and on but
    :>>>'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles from him.
    :>>
    :>> If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about recommending
    :>> NYC??? to him.
    :>>
    :>> This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does some
    :>> trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats swamping,
    :>> and mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things constantly
    :>> happen
    :>> to one person, you have to consider the person.
    :>>
    :>>
    :>> Life is Good!
    :>> Jeff
    :> I doubted NYC would travel to Woodland Park but I just wanted to get
    :> this good word out on Angletech. Here in Albuquerque we have both
    :> kinds of bike shop employees--the pierced, tattooed (btw, I have 36
    :> and both ears but no eye brows pierced) bleached in high heeled doc
    :> martins with attitude and the shop guy or girl who will deal with
    :> you without judgemental b.s. and a desire to help. Some folks don't
    :> realize that
    :> help without a purchase should be requested in small doses and
    :> graciously received. When a potential purchase amounts to => than
    :> $2000 the customer does have a right to a little more time than what
    :> it takes to show a few pairs of shoes.
    :> Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64?
    :> Steve

    Thanks for the info on Angletech. I've saved it away for the day when I'll
    buy a 'bent. I'll make an advance trip to go visit him too (I live in SC).
     
  14. Steve Katona

    Steve Katona Guest

    Roger Zoul wrote:
    > Steve Katona <[email protected]> wrote:
    > :> Jeff Starr wrote:
    > :>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona <[email protected]>
    > :>> wrote:
    > :>>
    > :>>
    > :>>> For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no one
    > :>>> like Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
    > :>>> http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
    > :>>> I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many hours--more
    > :>>> than 12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone
    > :>>> conversations and dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed.
    > :>>> Highest quality. No churning. Always alternative suggestions for
    > :>>> highest end components when suggested. I could go on and on but
    > :>>>'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles from him.
    > :>>
    > :>> If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about recommending
    > :>> NYC??? to him.
    > :>>
    > :>> This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does some
    > :>> trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats swamping,
    > :>> and mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things constantly
    > :>> happen
    > :>> to one person, you have to consider the person.
    > :>>
    > :>>
    > :>> Life is Good!
    > :>> Jeff
    > :> I doubted NYC would travel to Woodland Park but I just wanted to get
    > :> this good word out on Angletech. Here in Albuquerque we have both
    > :> kinds of bike shop employees--the pierced, tattooed (btw, I have 36
    > :> and both ears but no eye brows pierced) bleached in high heeled doc
    > :> martins with attitude and the shop guy or girl who will deal with
    > :> you without judgemental b.s. and a desire to help. Some folks don't
    > :> realize that
    > :> help without a purchase should be requested in small doses and
    > :> graciously received. When a potential purchase amounts to => than
    > :> $2000 the customer does have a right to a little more time than what
    > :> it takes to show a few pairs of shoes.
    > :> Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64?
    > :> Steve
    >
    > Thanks for the info on Angletech. I've saved it away for the day when I'll
    > buy a 'bent. I'll make an advance trip to go visit him too (I live in SC).
    >
    >

    Kelvin has a visit he calls recumbent 101. You need to make a
    reservation. During that approximately hour and half to two hour visit
    you'll ride one of each of the various types of bents: swb, lwb, uss.
    ass, low, medium and high bottom bracket. He asks you to ride each
    several times. The first time just to ride; the second time to feel
    what's special about the bike as a different experience from the other
    bikes; the third time is to ride your top 2 or 3 to decide on your
    favorite 'type.' I did this and there was no pressure to buy. He
    encourages questions and takes the time to answer. What more can you
    ask? He wants to take a stock bike and upgrade components until you
    reach your financial comfort zone to build you the bike you've dreamt.
    Does this sound too good to be true? I did it twice and both times I
    think I got the best I could've and much better than I could've designed
    myself.
     
  15. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Steve Katona <[email protected]> wrote:
    :> Roger Zoul wrote:
    :>> Steve Katona <[email protected]> wrote:
    :>> :> Jeff Starr wrote:
    :>> :>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:28 -0700, Steve Katona
    :>> :>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>>> For anyone who can manage the travel, if required, there is no
    :>> :>>> one like Kelvin Clark of Angletech in Woodland Park, CO
    :>> :>>> http://www.angletechcycles.com/index.html
    :>> :>>> I have purchased 2 bents from him. I have spent many
    :>> :>>> hours--more
    :>> :>>> than 12--at his shop riding and talking, dozens of phone
    :>> :>>> conversations and dozens of emails. Satisfaction guaranteed.
    :>> :>>> Highest quality. No churning. Always alternative suggestions
    :>> :>>> for highest end components when suggested. I could go on and
    :>> :>>>on but 'nuff said.' And I live 400 miles from him.
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> If you really like Kevin, you will think twice about
    :>> :>> recommending NYC??? to him.
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> This guy shows up every few months, causes a commotion, does
    :>> :>> some trolling, and gone again. I think last time it was boats
    :>> :>> swamping,
    :>> :>> and mistreatment. As others have said, when bad things
    :>> :>> constantly happen
    :>> :>> to one person, you have to consider the person.
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> Life is Good!
    :>> :>> Jeff
    :>> :> I doubted NYC would travel to Woodland Park but I just wanted to
    :>> :> get this good word out on Angletech. Here in Albuquerque we have
    :>> :> both
    :>> :> kinds of bike shop employees--the pierced, tattooed (btw, I have
    :>> :> 36
    :>> :> and both ears but no eye brows pierced) bleached in high heeled
    :>> :> doc martins with attitude and the shop guy or girl who will deal
    :>> :> with
    :>> :> you without judgemental b.s. and a desire to help. Some folks
    :>> :> don't realize that
    :>> :> help without a purchase should be requested in small doses and
    :>> :> graciously received. When a potential purchase amounts to => than
    :>> :> $2000 the customer does have a right to a little more time than
    :>> :> what
    :>> :> it takes to show a few pairs of shoes.
    :>> :> Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64?
    :>> :> Steve
    :>>
    :>> Thanks for the info on Angletech. I've saved it away for the day
    :>> when I'll buy a 'bent. I'll make an advance trip to go visit him
    :>> too (I live in SC).
    :>>
    :>>
    :> Kelvin has a visit he calls recumbent 101. You need to make a
    :> reservation. During that approximately hour and half to two hour
    :> visit you'll ride one of each of the various types of bents: swb,
    :> lwb, uss.
    :> ass, low, medium and high bottom bracket. He asks you to ride each
    :> several times. The first time just to ride; the second time to feel
    :> what's special about the bike as a different experience from the
    :> other bikes; the third time is to ride your top 2 or 3 to decide on
    :> your
    :> favorite 'type.' I did this and there was no pressure to buy. He
    :> encourages questions and takes the time to answer. What more can you
    :> ask? He wants to take a stock bike and upgrade components until you
    :> reach your financial comfort zone to build you the bike you've
    :> dreamt.
    :> Does this sound too good to be true? I did it twice and both times I
    :> think I got the best I could've and much better than I could've
    :> designed myself.

    That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me. Now I
    just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that covers all
    the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the
    others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long chain.
    I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down.
    heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.
     
  16. > Your shop *sells* valve caps? I knew it's tough to make a living with a
    > bike shop but damn! <g>
    >
    > Regards,
    > Bob Hunt


    Bob: One of those projects to get around to is my "Valve cap conspiracy"
    page. I don't know if I can do it over-the-top enough to make sure everyone
    realizes it's meant as a joke though. I've already taken the photos (clear
    jars of valve caps, priced exhorbitantly).

    But before somebody here still isn't in on the joke, no, we don't sell valve
    caps. They're too valuable. The only way you can get one is with a big
    purchase. Over $100, we'll give you a valve cap. Otherwise no way. Not even
    for $5. That's why they mysteriously disappear from your bike when you leave
    it in for repair... that's how we make sure people buy more stuff.

    Just kidding!!!

    --Mike Jacoubowsky
    Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReaction.com
    Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

    "Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >> >> Now I ask you all; does that sound crazy or what?
    >> >
    >> > These dealers you've been dealing with are all recumbent people?

    >>
    >> I was thinking that myself. Peter Stull is definitely into recumbents, as
    >> well as the other shop he mentioned (with recumbent in their name). The
    >> place he got the Trek 1000 sounded pretty normal; there really aren't
    >> such
    >> things as "floor models" in bike shops... because you can't properly
    >> build a
    >> bike on the spot, you need to have your inventory built up ahead of time.
    >> And the guy "stealing" valve caps? A common inside-joke at shops is the
    >> way
    >> customers believe there's some big black market for valve caps, and the
    >> reason we leave them off (which happens accidentally more often than it
    >> should) is so we can score big bucks selling them.
    >>
    >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    >
    >
    > Your shop *sells* valve caps? I knew it's tough to make a living with a
    > bike shop but damn! <g>
    >
    > Regards,
    > Bob Hunt
    >
     
  17. Roger Zoul wrote:
    >
    > That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me. Now I
    > just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that covers all
    > the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the
    > others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long chain.
    > I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down.
    > heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.


    Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.

    I got caught in a heavy rain shower on a group ride on a recumbent [1]
    with the rest of the riders being on uprights. Since I was the only
    rider on a bicycle with a front fairing and fenders, I only got wet
    above the shoulders. The rest of the riders were soaked everywhere.

    I did my first century on a rainy day on a bike like this [2], and did
    not suffer anymore than the upright riders with fenders, and less than
    those without fenders.

    A recumbent with properly fitted fenders

    [1] This bike: <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Sherman.htm>.
    [2] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Rocket.htm>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  18. Phil Holman

    Phil Holman Guest

    "Little Meow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > NYC XYZ wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >>
    >> Mark wrote:
    >>>
    >>> OK. The facts, then. You spent probably 600 or 700 words lamenting
    >>> about
    >>> how four or five or six bike shops in a row either treated you badly
    >>> or
    >>> wouldn't do business with you or behaved bizarrely.

    >>
    >> Goodness, I'm glad you don't design bicycles for a living the way
    >> your
    >> brain works.
    >>
    >>> You're right, it's not the norm.

    >>
    >> You're wrong, I wasn't talking about that.
    >>
    >> Why do you pick and choose what you wish to ignore?
    >>
    >>> I could have pointed it out more gently, but the bottom line is that
    >>> these interactions are two way affairs and there's no secret
    >>> handshake,
    >>> as you put it.

    >>
    >> You still haven't pointed out a single instance of what I'd done
    >> wrong.
    >>
    >>> Sunny side up, dry toast on the side.

    >>
    >> Your brain is toast.
    >>
    >>> --
    >>> Mark Scardiglia
    >>>
    >>> [email protected]

    >>

    >
    > You are correct. The problem is with them, not you. Those non-plussed
    > customers must also have something wrong with them. They are not as
    > perceptive as you, so they are unable to recognize when they are not
    > receiving adequate service. Unfortunately, a shopper with your level
    > of sophistication will rarely encounter a shop that is adequate.


    IOW....... get real. Is that what you mean?

    Phil H
     
  19. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Roger Zoul wrote:
    >>
    >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me. Now
    >> I
    >> just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that covers
    >> all
    >> the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know
    >> the
    >> others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long
    >> chain.
    >> I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down.
    >> heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.

    >
    > Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.


    Geez, was that mentally taxing for you to figure out?

    >
    > I got caught in a heavy rain shower on a group ride on a recumbent [1]
    > with the rest of the riders being on uprights. Since I was the only
    > rider on a bicycle with a front fairing and fenders, I only got wet
    > above the shoulders. The rest of the riders were soaked everywhere.
    >
    > I did my first century on a rainy day on a bike like this [2], and did
    > not suffer anymore than the upright riders with fenders, and less than
    > those without fenders.
    >
    > A recumbent with properly fitted fenders
    >
    > [1] This bike: <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Sherman.htm>.
    > [2] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Rocket.htm>.
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
    >
     
  20. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >Roger Zoul wrote:
    >>
    >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask for me. Now I
    >> just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't there a book that covers all
    >> the different types. I know what swg, lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the
    >> others you mentioned. Also, I worry about that really, really long chain.
    >> I bet that get's you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down.
    >> heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.

    >
    >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden one.


    Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and has, as many would,
    a misperception. All the guy needed was disabused.

    A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and majorly insecure. I
    think it's from your inferiority at cyclocross.

    Ron

    >I got caught in a heavy rain shower on a group ride on a recumbent [1]
    >with the rest of the riders being on uprights. Since I was the only
    >rider on a bicycle with a front fairing and fenders, I only got wet
    >above the shoulders. The rest of the riders were soaked everywhere.
    >
    >I did my first century on a rainy day on a bike like this [2], and did
    >not suffer anymore than the upright riders with fenders, and less than
    >those without fenders.
    >
    >A recumbent with properly fitted fenders
    >
    >[1] This bike: <http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Sherman.htm>.
    >[2] <http://www.ransbikes.com/Rocket.htm>.
     
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