Bad Bike Shop Manners??

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.marketplace' started by NYC XYZ, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> writes:

    > God works in mysterious ways, as the Recumbent-Bible-in-Bike-Shoes
    > would surely agree.


    G-d is nuclear-powered. The last thing we wanna do is to
    set Him off and make Him go ballistic on us.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     


  2. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Johnny Sunset wrote:
    >
    >
    > You forgot Panama - George H. W. Bush turning on his old CIA "asset"
    > Manuel Noriega.
    >
    > --
    > Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley



    Oh, hehe...weird kind of Freudian slip, that, considering how I met my
    first American Communist at that time, our high school English teacher
    who read Greek and Latin at Oxford (Magdalen College), spending his
    time trying to promote homosexuality as a decent thing and railing
    against Bush, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, and Truman,
    not to mention Christopher Columbus and Saint Paul!
     
  3. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Was he suggesting that?

    Besides, it looks good to have people in the shop, kinda like with
    restaurants.



    G.T. wrote:
    >
    >
    > I've seen guys stay in a shop literally for hours without ever intending
    > to purchase a thing. You would entertain these guys for that long?
    >
    > Greg
    > --
    > "All my time I spent in heaven
    > Revelries of dance and wine
    > Waking to the sound of laughter
    > Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
     
  4. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Johnny Sunset" <[email protected]> writes:

    > I got caught in a heavy rain shower on a group ride on a recumbent 1]
    > with the rest of the riders being on uprights. Since I was the only
    > rider on a bicycle with a front fairing and fenders, I only got wet
    > above the shoulders.


    Here's a locally-built/designed stock unit with such conditions in mind:
    http://www.cambiecycles.com/bentrider.html

    It's very pretty to look at, especially with that lexan fairing.

    As for keeping dry, I do so with old-school technology:
    my cycling rain cape, fenders, a pair of gaiters, and
    toeclip covers made of strips of inner tube. I especially
    like how my toeclip covers + gaiters keeps my shoes dry, yet
    allows them to breathe.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  5. Tom Keats wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > > God works in mysterious ways, as the Recumbent-Bible-in-Bike-Shoes
    > > would surely agree.

    >
    > G-d is nuclear-powered. The last thing we wanna do is to
    > set Him off and make Him go ballistic on us.


    Sun worshiper?

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  6. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Johnny Sunset <[email protected]> wrote:
    :> Roger Zoul wrote:
    :>> Johnny Sunset <[email protected]> wrote:
    :>> :> RonSonic wrote:
    :>> :>> On 21 Jan 2006 13:33:43 -0800, "Johnny Sunset"
    :>> :>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> >
    :>> :>> >Roger Zoul wrote:
    :>> :>> >>
    :>> :>> >> That sounds perfect, really. I do see how anyone could ask
    :>> :>> >> for
    :>> :>> >> me. Now I just need to get up to speed on 'bents. Isn't
    :>> :>> >> there
    :>> :>> >> a book that covers all the different types. I know what swg,
    :>> :>> >> lwb, clwb, but don't quite know the others you mentioned.
    :>> :>> >> Also,
    :>> :>> >> I worry about that really, really long chain. I bet that
    :>> :>> >> get's
    :>> :>> >> you majorly dirty if you get caught out in a pour down. heh,
    :>> :>> >> riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot of fun. NOT.
    :>> :>> >
    :>> :>> >Another recumbent "expert" who has (apparently) never ridden
    :>> :>> >one.
    :>> :>>
    :>> :>> Dude, that was pissy. He's clearly a newb asking advise and
    :>> :>> has, as many would, a misperception. All the guy needed was
    :>> :>> disabused.
    :>> :>
    :>> :> And writing "heh, riding a 'bent in the rain as got to be a lot
    :>> :> of
    :>> :> fun.
    :>> :> NOT." is not being pissy?
    :>> :>
    :>> :>> A lot of you 'bents are entirely too freeking sensitive and
    :>> :>> majorly insecure. I think it's from your inferiority at
    :>> :>> cyclocross.
    :>> :>
    :>> :> Why should people with no knowledge post misinformation as fact?
    :>>
    :>> Do you really think anyone in their right mind would have took my
    :>> comment - in context, mind you - as that from someone who knew
    :>> something about 'bent? Obviously, I was expressing in opinion as
    :>> someone who is clueless about 'bents....
    :>
    :> Why express a derogatory opinion then? This is not
    :> rec.bicycles.racing after all.

    I don't see it as derogatory, especially since I plan on getting a one in
    the not-so-far away future. On my road bike I get all nasty when it rains
    (mostly down my back), I just though it would be much worse on a 'bent due
    to long chain (throwing stuff alone your entire backside - seemingly,
    anyway) and the because (seemingly) you're mostly leaning back so that rain
    gets you more in your face than on a road bike where your head tends to lean
    forward.

    You don't think there are pros/cons to the various types of cycles? The
    pros may outway the cons and vice versa, depending on your POV. I don't plan
    to give up my upright road bike but will would enjoy riding a 'bent. The
    world isn't just black and white.
     
  7. Roger Zoul wrote:
    > ...On my road bike I get all nasty when it rains
    > (mostly down my back), I just though it would be much worse on a 'bent due
    > to long chain (throwing stuff alone your entire backside - seemingly,
    > anyway) and the because (seemingly) you're mostly leaning back so that rain
    > gets you more in your face than on a road bike where your head tends to lean
    > forward.


    I have never really noticed much water coming off the chain while
    riding a recumbent in the rain. But then, the rain never has bothered
    me as much as most other Midwestern riders (good thing they do not live
    in the Pacific Northwest near the coast).

    On a long wheelbase bicycle (LWB) a front fender is a necessity, as the
    spray from the front wheel will otherwise be directed at the rider's
    face at normal speed. On a short wheelbase (SWB) a front fender is very
    useful in keeping spray off the rider's feet, legs and crank/BB area
    of the bike.

    Rear fenders are also necessary for recumbents unless they have
    hard-shell seats, as the water will easily pass through a mesh back
    and/or soak the base padding.

    Of course for the ultimate in recumbent weather protection, see
    <http://www.leitra.dk/>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit)
     
  8. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > > suicide, they don't go outta biz.

    >
    > Would be nice if that could always be the case, but... there are times when
    > a conversation goes from "customer" mode to "chat" and, realistically, the
    > customer whose needs haven't been served take precedence over someone in
    > "chat" mode. It really shouldn't be that big a deal either; it's not that
    > difficult to gracefully disconnect yourself from such a conversation by
    > letting the person know that you'd like to hear more about it later, but
    > right now you've got to take care of another customer. I don't think that's
    > rude, and I'll bet the majority of people (who you might have to cut a bit
    > short) would respect that, since they've been in the shoes of the person who
    > has to wait... and wait... and wait... while someone is having a friendly
    > conversation that appears to have little to do with business.


    You and I agree, I know both of our stores operate the same way. BUT as
    you know, sometimes a chat about a set of wheels sometimes ends with
    the customer saying,out of the blue, "let's do that then, how much do
    I owe you?'. Just before it was a chat about wheels.....

    >
    > In all seriousness, there are very few things that can be resolved over the
    > phone better in a 15-minute conversation than 5. In most cases, anything
    > that detailed needs to be dealt with in-person, in the store.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >
    > "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > Rich wrote:
    > >> NYC XYZ wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > Whatever happened to the friendly neighborhood bike dealer?
    > >>
    > >> Maybe he went out of business talking to people that weren't buying
    > >> stuff.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> > I contacted Peter Stull, "The Bicycleman," and though I found him
    > >> > friendly at first, after a long ten or thirteen-minute telephone
    > >> > conversation he hangs up on me 'cause a customer suddenly walked in the
    > >> > door.
    > >>
    > >> How much of his time did you expect? He's in business, and his first
    > >> priority should be the people that made the effort to get to his store.
    > >> He sounds friendly enough to me.

    > >
    > > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > > suicide, they don't go outta biz.
    > >
    > >>
    > >> > So I get in touch with another dealer, Northeast Recumbents. E-mailed,
    > >> > phoned, left messages...nothing. Finally got through to him last
    > >> > weekend, set up a look-see tomorrow. But there's rain in the forecast,
    > >> > and now this dealer is incommunicado.
    > >> >
    > >> > WTF?!
    > >>
    > >> They're running a business, not a chat room.
    > >>
    > >> > Are my expectations out of order?
    > >>
    > >> I think so.
    > >>
    > >> Rich

    > >
     
  9. G.T. wrote:
    > Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > The converstion in a retail place should in ALL cases be ended by the
    > > 'customer', not the employee. A bike shop is supposed to be the expert,
    > > the person that listens and then, perhaps, sells. Sometimes it IS a
    > > chat room, and that's how you grow your biz. If a person is comfy just
    > > talking, then he will be comfy later giving you money. Pretty simple.
    > > NOTHING is so important in a toy store, that the employee shuts a
    > > person down, in order to talk to another, even if they have a $20 bill
    > > stuck in their nose, waiting to buy. The surly attitude displayed by
    > > some in this thread is WHY many bike shops go under. They commit
    > > suicide, they don't go outta biz.
    > >

    >
    > I've seen guys stay in a shop literally for hours without ever intending
    > to purchase a thing. You would entertain these guys for that long?


    I think you get the impression that we sit down in our little lounge
    and yack about everything including some bike stuff. You and I know
    that's NOT how it works but we get many that just have questions aboit
    this goofy thing called bicycles. We talk and tell them the truth. MANY
    times it translates to sales. WE don't have the rep of being surly and
    confrontational, many shops in Boulder do. MANY times they say 'thanks
    for taking the time, the shop on ____ street wouldn't. MANY times it
    turns into $, sometimes not. BUT the tone of many other than XYZ smacks
    of confrontation, surlyness...many things we hear about in the
    'Republic'.

    Remember it's about bikes, not anybody needed a kindey dialysis or a
    heart lung bypass machine...bikes, toys...somebody can have some of my
    time.

    >
    > Greg
    > --
    > "All my time I spent in heaven
    > Revelries of dance and wine
    > Waking to the sound of laughter
    > Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
     
  10. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
    >
    >
    > You and I agree, I know both of our stores operate the same way. BUT as
    > you know, sometimes a chat about a set of wheels sometimes ends with
    > the customer saying,out of the blue, "let's do that then, how much do
    > I owe you?'. Just before it was a chat about wheels.....




    That's salesmanship! Basically, it's like any relationship -- say a
    boy-girl one...you just chat, see what's up, what you have in common,
    etc. But if the attitude is "show me the honey/show me the money"...!

    As it turns out, I'll be spending an extra grand -- $4K!!!! -- 'cause I
    like Johannes at NorthEast Recumbents and I feel bad that he's planning
    on closing for good and I was interested in Magura Marta ultralight
    hydraulic disc brakes sooner or later....

    I'd give him some business advice, but I didn't want to rub it in or
    something: his website sucks. The location is bad, too. But of
    course, it don't help that nobody rides 'bents much. But he's been
    doing it eleven years now, and at least he'll have time to actually
    ride his own bikes now!
     
  11. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    That's Saint Ed the Great. I was talking about his boss, the Big Fella
    in the lawn chair winking at me while I was testing out the SMGTe.



    Tom Keats wrote:
    >
    >
    > G-d is nuclear-powered. The last thing we wanna do is to
    > set Him off and make Him go ballistic on us.
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >
    > --
    > -- Nothing is safe from me.
    > Above address is just a spam midden.
    > I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  12. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
    >
    >
    > I think you get the impression that we sit down in our little lounge
    > and yack about everything including some bike stuff. You and I know
    > that's NOT how it works but we get many that just have questions aboit
    > this goofy thing called bicycles. We talk and tell them the truth. MANY
    > times it translates to sales. WE don't have the rep of being surly and
    > confrontational, many shops in Boulder do. MANY times they say 'thanks
    > for taking the time, the shop on ____ street wouldn't. MANY times it
    > turns into $, sometimes not. BUT the tone of many other than XYZ smacks
    > of confrontation, surlyness...many things we hear about in the




    I think it's like with people who are afraid to walk into a restaurant
    and try out new foods...they don't want to feel like hill-billies
    imposing on some great chef...I'm glad your bike shop is
    "newbie-friendly." I think we should start a movement like that!
    "Newbie-rated Five Smiles" or something!
     
  13. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Andrew Price wrote:
    >
    > I think the all time difficult LBS guy is depicted in the Canadian movie
    > "Two Seconds".


    Sounds interesting, but imdb.com doesn't list it, and it's not on DVD
    in any case.

    > The shop proprietlor, an ex road racer with considerable attitude, confronts
    > Miss Downhill Racer with equal but opposite attitude. Breathtaking rudeness
    > from him, but there is a reason ...


    Steve Martin had this episode in one of his movies where a kid walks
    into his ice cream shop and inquires about flavor after flavor...but
    that's not me.

    > Whilst demolishing a bottle of scotch after hours in the shop, each argues
    > how their particular discpline gave true meaning to the concept of suffering
    > on a bicycle.
    >
    > Friendship and mutual respect follow - liked that bit of the movie.


    Well, like I said, I'm really curious if I did something wrong.

    > best, Andrew
     
  14. max

    max Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "NYC XYZ" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > Unlike you, I really have better things to do -- like get my flat
    > fixed! -- than walk into a shop or conversation where I have no
    > business or interest.


    WEAK!

    fix it yourself, poindexter.

    ..max
     
  15. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    >
    >
    > I was thinking that myself. Peter Stull is definitely into recumbents, as
    > well as the other shop he mentioned (with recumbent in their name).


    That's why I was like, it is just me or what??

    > The
    > place he got the Trek 1000 sounded pretty normal; there really aren't such
    > things as "floor models" in bike shops... because you can't properly build a
    > bike on the spot, you need to have your inventory built up ahead of time.


    But here's the thing: you're gonna build one *anyway* if I take the
    floor model (that's what you call it, right; it's there for people to
    try out, etc.), so why not give *me* the new one, seeing how I'm paying
    the new-price?? I'm not asking for it on the spot, mind you -- though
    if I take the display/floor model, you can be sure they'll build a new
    one that very night so there isn't an empty spot the next day.

    > And the guy "stealing" valve caps? A common inside-joke at shops is the way
    > customers believe there's some big black market for valve caps, and the
    > reason we leave them off (which happens accidentally more often than it
    > should) is so we can score big bucks selling them.


    THANK YOU!!! That's why I'm keeping track of 'em now! I'm like, WTF,
    *all* my three bikes have no valve caps!!!! How did that happen!!!

    At another LBS the guy said oh you don't really need them, it's no big
    deal. Is that true? I know they're not air-tight like a vaccuum, but
    are they really just decorative???

    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  16. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    justindavid wrote:
    >
    >
    > If you've never met a friendly person working in a bike shop you must
    > have one hell of a personality.



    You mean I look too fat in this dress?
     
  17. After about twenty five years in the bike business in both retail and
    manufacturing, I"ve seen little change in the mostly poor attitudes of
    bike shop employees. I at first blamed the shop owners but over time
    came to realize that they were caught between a rock and a hard place.
    The only source of employees is from the ranks of the young
    testosterone laden male racer wannabees who have no other interests. As
    far as they are concerned anyone who comes into the shop to buy
    something non-racing related is someone to put up with because they
    have to. A shop employee once told me that to be a "real" cyclist you
    should be able to put up with pain and suffering. That seems to be
    pretty much a universal attitude amongst them. They also don't like to
    deal with anyone over the age of thirty, chances are if you are forty
    and have a bit of body fat you might as well be invisible. When I was
    in the business I would often stop at shops around the country. Many
    times I spent ten or fifteen minutes walking around the shop and was
    never even asked the basic "may I help you"question.
    I realize that dealing with the public can be frustrating at times,
    when I was building bikes in Eugene Oregon I occasionaly spent time in
    a friend's shop and was alwaYS Amused at his having to bite his tongue
    when people came in asking for such things as used inner tubes. It's
    tough business that has changed a lot over the years. Most of the mom
    and pop shops are gone. Over the last year in the Boston area I've seen
    at least 5 or 6 shops close. One of them belonged to friend who, as far
    as I could see did nothing wrong. He had a beautiful modern well laid
    out shop in a great location with excellent employees who were great at
    dealing with customers. After ten years he finally had to throw in the
    towel and declare bankruptcy. Again, a tough business and I salute
    anyone who make a living at it.

    Dick Ryan
     
  18. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Don't you believe in supporting your local bike shop?


    max wrote:
    >
    >
    > WEAK!
    >
    > fix it yourself, poindexter.
    >
    > .max
     
  19. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Paul Cassel wrote:
    >
    > If you could see yourself as these folks see you, then you'd understand
    > that they are all there, but you won't find them without a serious
    > change in attitude.


    That's why I'm asking. What did I do wrong?

    > I like the valve cap story - very illustrative.


    I walk in to get my flat fixed, as I'm paying I notice the cap's gone
    and I ask. Of course I didn't holler at Evan or anything like that --
    and he wasn't on the phone (or getting over a break-up, AFAIK) -- so
    where did the stupid sarcasm come from? I go there all the time --
    used to -- to get my flats fixed, etc., so what's the problem?

    Anyway, as it turned out, the Bulgarian mechanic actually lives in my
    neighborhood, so I'm paying him directly now for that kind of stuff.
     
  20. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com wrote:
    >
    >
    > No. It does seem that most bike shops are filled with either dolts or
    > surly putzes that are there to prove something...some sort of a power
    > trip about the 'knowledgeable vs the not' or something.
    > Even in Boulder we hear stories about some shops, and why they'll never
    > go in 'there' again. I think great bike shops or stores, kinda by
    > definition, don't do well in 'talking', I think sometimes from pressure
    > to sell, sell, sell.



    Thanks for commiserating, all the more important since you're a
    businessman yourself. Frankly, I can't figure out what business model
    the average LBS employs -- everyone seems to sell the same things! But
    if you don't, you're outta business!

    I wish you a busily prosperous 2006...bookmarking you for when I
    recover from my $4K SMGTe and get serious about componentry....
     
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