bad commute home last night

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Ken C. M., Apr 15, 2006.

  1. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home last
    night, it was a nice night, little wind, I was tucked in a semi-aero
    position on the hybrid, doing about 15mph or so, and all of a sudden I
    saw a car to my left, and then turn right in front of me into a
    driveway. I had about 10 feet to stop and or change direction before
    hitting the side of the car. I did manage to change direction, to the
    right, onto the lawn, and stop. I watched the guy for almost a minute
    shuffle papers or whatever in his car, then he opened his door and I
    rode by and made a comment about his driving skills, he commente back
    "Pardon me", I just continued on my way, althought I wanted to tell him
    what he did and how it was wrong, but figured he still wouldn't
    understand. All he had to do was wait a few extra seconds while I passed
    by his driveway. Which he spent shuffling papers in the car anyway. Oh
    and of course I had my lights turned on as it was dark out.

    Ken
    --
    A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the thin
    edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs
    become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal.
    And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On Bicycling,"
    Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967

    Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/
     
    Tags:


  2. brink

    brink Guest

    "Ken C. M." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home last
    > night, it was a nice night, little wind, I was tucked in a semi-aero
    > position on the hybrid, doing about 15mph or so, and all of a sudden I saw
    > a car to my left, and then turn right in front of me into a driveway. I
    > had about 10 feet to stop and or change direction before hitting the side
    > of the car. I did manage to change direction, to the right, onto the lawn,
    > and stop. I watched the guy for almost a minute shuffle papers or whatever
    > in his car, then he opened his door and I rode by and made a comment about
    > his driving skills, he commente back "Pardon me", I just continued on my
    > way, althought I wanted to tell him what he did and how it was wrong, but
    > figured he still wouldn't understand. All he had to do was wait a few
    > extra seconds while I passed by his driveway. Which he spent shuffling
    > papers in the car anyway. Oh and of course I had my lights turned on as it
    > was dark out.


    My new favorite technique is just to start taking photos of the driver, car,
    and license with my cell camera. They always get very concerned and
    paranoid in a hurry and ask what I'm doing. I calmly tell them that I
    document all aggressive and/or dangerous drivers and instances and forward
    the info to the police. Oh, you should see the looks. The trick is to do
    it as calmly and clinically as possible. Works great for drivers trapped at
    red lights. The idea is simple; education. Get them thinking "what did I
    do wrong?" Hopefully it won't happen again; people dislike confrontation.

    brink
     
  3. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:
    :: Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home
    :: last night, it was a nice night, little wind, I was tucked in a
    :: semi-aero position on the hybrid, doing about 15mph or so, and all
    :: of a sudden I saw a car to my left, and then turn right in front of
    :: me into a driveway. I had about 10 feet to stop and or change
    :: direction before hitting the side of the car. I did manage to change
    :: direction, to the right, onto the lawn, and stop. I watched the guy
    :: for almost a minute shuffle papers or whatever in his car, then he
    :: opened his door and I rode by and made a comment about his driving
    :: skills, he commente back "Pardon me", I just continued on my way,
    :: althought I wanted to tell him what he did and how it was wrong, but
    :: figured he still wouldn't understand.

    Frankly, I think that since he didn't curse you, that was an opportunity to
    inform him of what he could have done differently.

    BTW, what does MV mean?

    Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.

    All he had to do was wait a
    :: few extra seconds while I passed by his driveway. Which he spent
    :: shuffling papers in the car anyway. Oh and of course I had my lights
    :: turned on as it was dark out.
    ::
    :: Ken
    :: --
    :: A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the
    :: thin edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive.
    :: Dogs become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become
    :: personal. And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On
    :: Bicycling," Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967
    ::
    :: Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/
     
  4. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    Roger Zoul wrote:

    > Frankly, I think that since he didn't curse you, that was an opportunity to
    > inform him of what he could have done differently.
    >
    > BTW, what does MV mean?
    >

    MV is my abbreviation for motor vehicle.

    > Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.
    >


    You are correct of course. I often forget that cyclist are the minority.
    Maybe an oil embargo would force more people to use a bicycle as
    transportation.

    Ken
    --
    A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the thin
    edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs
    become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal.
    And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On Bicycling,"
    Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967

    Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/
     
  5. Specialized

    Specialized Guest


    >
    >Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.
    >

    I doubt that. _Everyone_ has ridden a bicycle at one time or another.
    I think it is selective "understanding". What I see from many drivers
    is a characteristic of current Society. It is all about them. They
    are the center of the universe.
    Who are we to inconvenience THEM?
    Don't you realize their importance?
    They may have worked hard all day fleecing widows, or managing their
    hamburger franchise.
    FWIW, a lot of them do not treat other vehicles or pedestrians all
    that much better, from what I see on my Caged Commute every day.
     
  6. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Specialized wrote:
    ::: Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.
    :::
    :: I doubt that.

    Think in broader terms, ie, your comments below. If they understand some of
    the thing you mention, they'd understand bicycles. Sure, most have ridden a
    bike, but most also think of them as kids toys you get from k-mart to be
    ridden on the sidewalks. That's the problem, man.

    _Everyone_ has ridden a bicycle at one time or
    :: another. I think it is selective "understanding". What I see from
    :: many drivers is a characteristic of current Society. It is all
    :: about them. They are the center of the universe.
    :: Who are we to inconvenience THEM?
    :: Don't you realize their importance?
    :: They may have worked hard all day fleecing widows, or managing their
    :: hamburger franchise.
    :: FWIW, a lot of them do not treat other vehicles or pedestrians all
    :: that much better, from what I see on my Caged Commute every day.
     
  7. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    > Specialized wrote:
    >::: Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.
    >:::
    >:: I doubt that.
    >
    > Think in broader terms, ie, your comments below. If they understand some of
    > the thing you mention, they'd understand bicycles. Sure, most have ridden a
    > bike, but most also think of them as kids toys you get from k-mart to be
    > ridden on the sidewalks. That's the problem, man.


    I think you're both probably right. I know this much --
    being in a moving car affects the mind and perception, and
    maybe the personality. Even as a passenger, I notice the
    disconnect from the world that the car is rolling over and
    skimming through. And the view through the windshield takes
    on an unreal quality, like looking at a movie projected on
    a screen, while the viewer sits, nestled comfortably on cushie
    furniture. Maybe people, other cars, bicycles and seemingly
    minor incidents become unreal (and inconsequential) in the
    minds of some drivers.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  8. brink wrote:
    > My new favorite technique is just to start taking photos of the driver, car,
    > and license with my cell camera. They always get very concerned and
    > paranoid in a hurry and ask what I'm doing.


    A photographer tried that on a nutcase who'd attached a cyclist in
    Toronto a while ago, and the driver came after the photographer with a
    baseball bat. Be ready!
     
  9. Gooserider

    Gooserider Guest

    "Brian Huntley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > brink wrote:
    >> My new favorite technique is just to start taking photos of the driver,
    >> car,
    >> and license with my cell camera. They always get very concerned and
    >> paranoid in a hurry and ask what I'm doing.

    >
    > A photographer tried that on a nutcase who'd attached a cyclist in
    > Toronto a while ago, and the driver came after the photographer with a
    > baseball bat. Be ready!


    Which would be a good time to give the psycho a face full of "Halt!".
     
  10. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Brian Huntley wrote:
    :: brink wrote:
    ::: My new favorite technique is just to start taking photos of the
    ::: driver, car, and license with my cell camera. They always get very
    ::: concerned and paranoid in a hurry and ask what I'm doing.
    ::
    :: A photographer tried that on a nutcase who'd attached a cyclist in
    :: Toronto a while ago, and the driver came after the photographer with
    :: a baseball bat. Be ready!

    Road rage!
     
  11. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Tom Keats wrote:
    :: In article <[email protected]>,
    :: "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    ::: Specialized wrote:
    :::::: Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.
    ::::::
    ::::: I doubt that.
    :::
    ::: Think in broader terms, ie, your comments below. If they
    ::: understand some of the thing you mention, they'd understand
    ::: bicycles. Sure, most have ridden a bike, but most also think of
    ::: them as kids toys you get from k-mart to be ridden on the
    ::: sidewalks. That's the problem, man.
    ::
    :: I think you're both probably right. I know this much --
    :: being in a moving car affects the mind and perception, and
    :: maybe the personality. Even as a passenger, I notice the
    :: disconnect from the world that the car is rolling over and
    :: skimming through. And the view through the windshield takes
    :: on an unreal quality, like looking at a movie projected on
    :: a screen, while the viewer sits, nestled comfortably on cushie
    :: furniture. Maybe people, other cars, bicycles and seemingly
    :: minor incidents become unreal (and inconsequential) in the
    :: minds of some drivers.

    I think you're right. Today cars are like bubbles that attempt isolate
    those inside from the exterior world. Frankly, they seem to do it too well,
    too.
     
  12. mort

    mort Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:
    > Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home last
    > night, it was a nice night,


    Just out of curiousity: it was dark, right? Any chance he simply
    didn't see you? Were you wearing dark clothes? Any lights on the
    bike? It's possible that you contributed to this. Or maybe not - if
    you were wearing reflective gear and had working lights, then the guys
    is an idiot.

    Mort
     
  13. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    mort wrote:
    :: Ken C. M. wrote:
    ::: Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home
    ::: last night, it was a nice night,
    ::
    :: Just out of curiousity: it was dark, right? Any chance he simply
    :: didn't see you? Were you wearing dark clothes? Any lights on the
    :: bike? It's possible that you contributed to this. Or maybe not - if
    :: you were wearing reflective gear and had working lights, then the
    :: guys is an idiot.

    I think he said he had at least a headlight. It's not at all uncommon for
    motorist to pass quickly, stop short, and make a right turn. IMO, because
    of this, it's always a good idea to take the lane when someone might be
    tempted to turn ahead of you on a narrow road at an intersection (I don't
    think it was an intersection in Ken's case, however).
     
  14. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    mort wrote:
    > Ken C. M. wrote:
    >
    >>Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home last
    >>night, it was a nice night,

    >
    >
    > Just out of curiousity: it was dark, right? Any chance he simply
    > didn't see you? Were you wearing dark clothes? Any lights on the
    > bike? It's possible that you contributed to this. Or maybe not - if
    > you were wearing reflective gear and had working lights, then the guys
    > is an idiot.
    >
    > Mort
    >


    Yes it was dark, and yes I had a red led light on the rear and a white
    led headlight on the front.

    Ken
    --
    A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the thin
    edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs
    become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal.
    And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On Bicycling,"
    Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967

    Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/
     
  15. brink

    brink Guest

    "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> writes:
    >> Specialized wrote:
    >>::: Also, most non cyclist don't understand bicycles.
    >>:::
    >>:: I doubt that.
    >>
    >> Think in broader terms, ie, your comments below. If they understand some
    >> of
    >> the thing you mention, they'd understand bicycles. Sure, most have
    >> ridden a
    >> bike, but most also think of them as kids toys you get from k-mart to be
    >> ridden on the sidewalks. That's the problem, man.

    >
    > I think you're both probably right. I know this much --
    > being in a moving car affects the mind and perception, and
    > maybe the personality. Even as a passenger, I notice the
    > disconnect from the world that the car is rolling over and
    > skimming through. And the view through the windshield takes
    > on an unreal quality, like looking at a movie projected on
    > a screen, while the viewer sits, nestled comfortably on cushie
    > furniture. Maybe people, other cars, bicycles and seemingly
    > minor incidents become unreal (and inconsequential) in the
    > minds of some drivers.


    This is the most succinct and accurate description I've ever heard for
    driver disconnect. I'll have to remember this.

    brink
     
  16. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Ken C. M. wrote:
    > Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home last
    > night, it was a nice night, little wind, I was tucked in a semi-aero
    > position on the hybrid, doing about 15mph or so, and all of a sudden I
    > saw a car to my left, and then turn right in front of me into a
    > driveway. I had about 10 feet to stop and or change direction before
    > hitting the side of the car. I did manage to change direction, to the
    > right, onto the lawn, and stop. I watched the guy for almost a minute
    > shuffle papers or whatever in his car, then he opened his door and I
    > rode by and made a comment about his driving skills, he commente back
    > "Pardon me", I just continued on my way, althought I wanted to tell him
    > what he did and how it was wrong, but figured he still wouldn't
    > understand. All he had to do was wait a few extra seconds while I passed
    > by his driveway. Which he spent shuffling papers in the car anyway. Oh
    > and of course I had my lights turned on as it was dark out.
    >
    > Ken


    Not to minimize or excuse the driver's obvious inattention but 15 mph
    in light wind conditons isn't fast enough to generate much wind noise
    and if you had your lights on because it was dark I assume his
    headlights were on as well so how did that car appear "all of a
    sudden"? It doesn't matter whether one is driving a car or riding a
    bike, operating defensively, i.e., paying attention to other traffic is
    *every* operator's responsibility.

    Regards,
    Bob Hunt
     
  17. Ken C. M.

    Ken C. M. Guest

    Bob wrote:
    > Ken C. M. wrote:
    >
    >>Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home last
    >>night, it was a nice night, little wind, I was tucked in a semi-aero
    >>position on the hybrid, doing about 15mph or so, and all of a sudden I
    >>saw a car to my left, and then turn right in front of me into a
    >>driveway. I had about 10 feet to stop and or change direction before
    >>hitting the side of the car. I did manage to change direction, to the
    >>right, onto the lawn, and stop. I watched the guy for almost a minute
    >>shuffle papers or whatever in his car, then he opened his door and I
    >>rode by and made a comment about his driving skills, he commente back
    >>"Pardon me", I just continued on my way, althought I wanted to tell him
    >>what he did and how it was wrong, but figured he still wouldn't
    >>understand. All he had to do was wait a few extra seconds while I passed
    >>by his driveway. Which he spent shuffling papers in the car anyway. Oh
    >>and of course I had my lights turned on as it was dark out.
    >>
    >>Ken

    >
    >
    > Not to minimize or excuse the driver's obvious inattention but 15 mph
    > in light wind conditons isn't fast enough to generate much wind noise
    > and if you had your lights on because it was dark I assume his
    > headlights were on as well so how did that car appear "all of a
    > sudden"? It doesn't matter whether one is driving a car or riding a
    > bike, operating defensively, i.e., paying attention to other traffic is
    > *every* operator's responsibility.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Bob Hunt
    >

    Well I do remember seeing the lights and hearing the noise of the car,
    but I was assuming that this driver was smart enough not to do what he
    did. So perhaps "all of sudden" was a phrase that could have been
    reworded or left out. But it did appear quickly, and he did turn
    quickly. Perhaps he just has poor distance / speed judgement.

    Ken
    --
    A bicycle does get you there and more.... And there is always the thin
    edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably apprehensive. Dogs
    become dogs again and snap at your raincoat; potholes become personal.
    And getting there is all the fun. ~Bill Emerson, "On Bicycling,"
    Saturday Evening Post, 29 July 1967

    Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/
     
  18. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Bob wrote:
    :: Ken C. M. wrote:
    ::: Some MV driver just don't understand bicycles. I was on my way home
    ::: last night, it was a nice night, little wind, I was tucked in a
    ::: semi-aero position on the hybrid, doing about 15mph or so, and all
    ::: of a sudden I saw a car to my left, and then turn right in front of
    ::: me into a driveway. I had about 10 feet to stop and or change
    ::: direction before hitting the side of the car. I did manage to
    ::: change direction, to the right, onto the lawn, and stop. I watched
    ::: the guy for almost a minute shuffle papers or whatever in his car,
    ::: then he opened his door and I rode by and made a comment about his
    ::: driving skills, he commente back "Pardon me", I just continued on
    ::: my way, althought I wanted to tell him what he did and how it was
    ::: wrong, but figured he still wouldn't understand. All he had to do
    ::: was wait a few extra seconds while I passed by his driveway. Which
    ::: he spent shuffling papers in the car anyway. Oh and of course I had
    ::: my lights turned on as it was dark out.
    :::
    ::: Ken
    ::
    :: Not to minimize or excuse the driver's obvious inattention but 15 mph
    :: in light wind conditons isn't fast enough to generate much wind noise
    :: and if you had your lights on because it was dark I assume his
    :: headlights were on as well so how did that car appear "all of a
    :: sudden"? It doesn't matter whether one is driving a car or riding a
    :: bike, operating defensively, i.e., paying attention to other traffic
    :: is *every* operator's responsibility.

    Methinks you're too harsh, Bob. Your take on "all of a sudden" and his or
    mine may be different. Also, it would also depend on how fast the car passes
    and decelerates to make that turn. I've had this kind of thing happen to me
    when I actually saw the car approaching behind me in daylight. How can you
    know if you're going to be right-hooked?
     
  19. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Roger Zoul wrote:
    >
    > Methinks you're too harsh, Bob. Your take on "all of a sudden" and his or
    > mine may be different. Also, it would also depend on how fast the car passes
    > and decelerates to make that turn. I've had this kind of thing happen to me
    > when I actually saw the car approaching behind me in daylight. How can you
    > know if you're going to be right-hooked?


    Perhaps I *seem* too harsh but given Ken's description of the speeds
    and distances involved (he was doing 15 mph and still managed to change
    directions and brake to a stop in ten feet?) I have to wonder if Ken
    didn't think, "Hey, that car is about to turn in front of me! I can't
    believe it!" and then *slow down* instead of taking the lane.
    Considering his reply I'd say that's more likely than not.

    Operating defensively doesn't always mean slowing down or moving out of
    a car's way. Sometimes it means taking the lane. I think this was one
    of those times.
    That's not a personal attack on Ken or a defense of the driver's
    inattention. It's merely an observation that we all make mistakes.

    BTW, I don't claim any ESP powers but more often than not I can predict
    when a driver is about to do something stupid that will endanger me.
    I'm sure you and Ken can as well. :)

    Regards,
    Bob Hunt
     
Loading...
Loading...