ball bearing prices

[Matt O'Toole]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 02:45:09 -0700, Donald Gillies wrote:

> [email protected] writes:
>
>>Yesterday, LBS wanted to charge me $1 (US) a piece for 1/4 inch
>>bearings, and $0.50 a piece for 5/32 inch bearings.
>
>>Please help me attribute honest motivations to this shop. Can anyone
>>provide honest and plausible reasons for charging prices like that?
>
> For this obscene price, and for the other shop that wanted $1.50 for
> one spoke ...
>
> The thing that is killing modern bike shops is the belief that 83.3%
> markup is a reasonable margin on all their small parts sales.

What really kills them is losing customers from resentment over these
nickel and dime ripoffs. Yes, I resent paying $6-7 for an inner tube, and
I won't be back after that!

Matt O.

 

[Bob]

On 8 Jun 2006 02:45:09 -0700, [email protected] (Donald Gillies)
wrote:

>For this obscene price, and for the other shop that wanted $1.50 for
>one spoke ...

I had a local shop charge me $21 for 7 feet of red brake cable casing
off a bulk spool. It was already cut when they quoted the price so I
bought it anyway. They were reasonable on the other stuff... so,
"whatever".

I asked another shop owner in the area for an empty bike box. He told
me "boxes cost me $15 per to get them here, so we have to charge $15
for them". I think it's more like they pay $15 per bike for delivery
of the full box on a semi trailer and they have to pay to get rid of
them. I haven't been back there.


>The thing that is killing modern bike shops is the belief that 83.3%
>markup is a reasonable margin on all their small parts sales.

Standard retail markup is 100% in most industries I've been in on most
everything. Higher price items have smaller markups. FYI - they mark
auto parts up 100% at the dealer. Parts is the most profitable
department in the dealership.

 

[Llatikcuf]

Bob wrote:
>
> I had a local shop charge me $21 for 7 feet of red brake cable casing
> off a bulk spool. It was already cut when they quoted the price so I
> bought it anyway. They were reasonable on the other stuff... so,
> "whatever".
>
> I asked another shop owner in the area for an empty bike box. He told
> me "boxes cost me $15 per to get them here, so we have to charge $15
> for them". I think it's more like they pay $15 per bike for delivery
> of the full box on a semi trailer and they have to pay to get rid of
> them. I haven't been back there.
>

Wow, that's pretty poor.

-nate

 

[John Everett]

On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 20:38:31 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, LBS wanted to charge me $1 (US) a piece for 1/4 inch
>> bearings, and $0.50 a piece for 5/32 inch bearings.
>>
>> 5/32 seem to cost about $4 for 75 online, and 1/4 cost $4 per 25. I
>> always like to support my LBS, but my rule is that they have to come
>> with 10-15% or so of internet prices. In this case they wanted to
>> charge roughly 1000% more, which is a bit ludicrous.
>>
>> Please help me attribute honest motivations to this shop. Can anyone
>> provide honest and plausible reasons for charging prices like that?
>>
>> Further information: The employee claimed the balls he was selling were
>> grade 200, which he said was "the highest grade". This contradicts
>> other sources, which claim that 25 is the highest grade readily
>> available.
>
>Go to a bearing supplier.

From a posting I made here a couple of years ago:

"...that started my dealing only with bearing specialty shops for
bearing balls. Coincidentally I just picked up a Mini-Pack of 100 1/4"
for $5.25 just two days ago. I buy them at Berry Bearings, a division
of Motion Industries, which claims to have over 500 outlets. See:

http://www.motionindustries.com "

BTW, the above refers to Grade 25 balls (sometimes know in the bike
business as "Campagnolo grade". ;-)

YABTW, about eight or ten years ago the local Berry Bearings outlet
was selling Mini-Packs of Grade 24 balls. Hard to see any advantage to
balls with .000001" better sphericity than Grade 25.



jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

 

[RonSonic]

On 8 Jun 2006 06:08:16 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Donald Gillies wrote:
>> [email protected] writes:
>>
>> >Yesterday, LBS wanted to charge me $1 (US) a piece for 1/4 inch
>> >bearings, and $0.50 a piece for 5/32 inch bearings.
>>
>> >Please help me attribute honest motivations to this shop. Can anyone
>> >provide honest and plausible reasons for charging prices like that?
>>
>> For this obscene price, and for the other shop that wanted $1.50 for
>> one spoke ...
>>
>> The thing that is killing modern bike shops is the belief that 83.3%
>> markup is a reasonable margin on all their small parts sales.
>>
>> - Don Gillies
>> San Diego, CA
>
>I think idiots in bike shops that spout the BS marketing line and make
>promises they can't keep is killing bike shops. Also poor info,
>untrained sellers and mechanics AND 'bike shops' that sell at 20%
>margin and try to make that the standard...

There's a shop between where I live and where I ride that I don't go to anymore.
"Hi, I need a derailleur hanger bolt."

"I didn't know they were interchangeable. Here we sell them with the replacement
hanger. Bring in the frame and we'll match it up with a hanger."

That was the head of the service department. Or at least the one who speaks
english and/or is allowed to deal with customers.

That was the final straw after the dried up tub glue and the hardcore upsell on
every transaction, and the $7.95 tubes and... I'll leave them to their yuppy
prey.

There's a funky, far too busy and cluttered little shop in a bad neighborhood
where the prices are good, the advice is clear, straightforward and honest and
the products will cover all bases. The service work is excellent, fast and
affordable. They've got my business. Joe Haskins rocks.

Ron

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

John Everett wrote:

> YABTW, about eight or ten years ago the local Berry Bearings outlet
> was selling Mini-Packs of Grade 24 balls. Hard to see any advantage to
> balls with .000001" better sphericity than Grade 25.


Yeah, but all the racers would HAVE to have them if they were better.
There's money to be made

 

[Dane Buson]

Antti Salonen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Llatikcuf <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Peter sells them for $0.65 a spoke, REI sells them for $0.75 a spoke.
>> How is $1.50 standard? It's rape!
>
> Indeed. Here I see them being sold online for 0.35 euro and they are
> something like 0.50 to 0.60 euro in a typical bike shop. $1.5 is
> ridiculous.

If they had to cut them to a non-standard size (say for 20" wheels), I'd
suck it up. But yeah, $1.50 for a standard DB spoke, I don't think so.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
"Please provide the date of your death."
-from an IRS letter

 

[john]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> None-ceramic balls aren't that much. Grade 25 balls we sell are $.10
> per ball, all sizes.

Good lord, Peter how can you make any dineros that way? The larger
sizes sell for more. That's got to be under an 85% mark up. .

Regards, John

 

[Donald Gillies]

Bob <[email protected]> writes:

>On 8 Jun 2006 02:45:09 -0700, [email protected] (Donald Gillies)
>wrote:

>>For this obscene price, and for the other shop that wanted $1.50 for
>>one spoke ...

>I had a local shop charge me $21 for 7 feet of red brake cable casing
>off a bulk spool. It was already cut when they quoted the price so I
>bought it anyway. They were reasonable on the other stuff... so,
>"whatever".

I don't know about colors but you can get a bulk QBP spool of 50' of
black cable for $25 and that's a retail price.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

Bob <[email protected]> writes:

>On 8 Jun 2006 02:45:09 -0700, [email protected] (Donald Gillies)
>wrote:

>>The thing that is killing modern bike shops is the belief that 83.3%
>>markup is a reasonable margin on all their small parts sales.

>Standard retail markup is 100% in most industries I've been in on most
>everything.

Whoops, I miscalculated the markup. I meant 600% markup on small
parts sales, 83.3% margin, not markup.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Bob wrote:
> On 8 Jun 2006 02:45:09 -0700, [email protected] (Donald Gillies)
> wrote:
>
> >For this obscene price, and for the other shop that wanted $1.50 for
> >one spoke ...
>
> I had a local shop charge me $21 for 7 feet of red brake cable casing
> off a bulk spool. It was already cut when they quoted the price so I
> bought it anyway. They were reasonable on the other stuff... so,
> "whatever".
>
> I asked another shop owner in the area for an empty bike box. He told
> me "boxes cost me $15 per to get them here, so we have to charge $15
> for them". I think it's more like they pay $15 per bike for delivery
> of the full box on a semi trailer and they have to pay to get rid of
> them. I haven't been back there.
>
>
> >The thing that is killing modern bike shops is the belief that 83.3%
> >markup is a reasonable margin on all their small parts sales.
>
> Standard retail markup is 100% in most industries I've been in on most
> everything. Higher price items have smaller markups. FYI - they mark
> auto parts up 100% at the dealer. Parts is the most profitable
> department in the dealership.

But not in bike shops and most don't really understand 'margin' and
'markup'. Doubling the cost is 100% markup but a 50% 'margin'...that
is, divide the cost by the margin to get the price. A $60 part at a 50%
margin is $120...most bicycles are a 35% or if yer lucky a 40%
margin...soft goods are a 50% margin...ya need about a 35% margin
overall to break even...that is to pay the bills, pay labor and keep
nothing extra. So....if you are generally breaking even, don't slam the
bike shop for selling housing at $2 per foot or cables for $5 or tubes
for $5 or $6....when they essentiually lose $ on a bike and really lose
$ when they have to discount at the end of the year for the new
models...like they will in about 45-60 days....

I agree that $1 for a bearing ball or a spoke is outrageous...but $.70
for a spoke or $.10 for a bearing ball is still a big margin...

 

[- Bob -]

On 10 Jun 2006 06:07:48 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So....if you are generally breaking even, don't slam the
>bike shop for selling housing at $2 per foot or cables for $5 or tubes
>for $5 or $6....when they essentiually lose $ on a bike and really lose
>$ when they have to discount at the end of the year for the new
>models...like they will in about 45-60 days....
>
>I agree that $1 for a bearing ball or a spoke is outrageous...but $.70
>for a spoke or $.10 for a bearing ball is still a big margin...

But in this case, $2 a foot would have been a clearance sale

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On 10 Jun 2006 06:07:48 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>But not in bike shops and most don't really understand 'margin' and
>'markup'. Doubling the cost is 100% markup but a 50% 'margin'...that
>is, divide the cost by the margin to get the price. A $60 part at a 50%
>margin is $120...most bicycles are a 35% or if yer lucky a 40%
>margin...soft goods are a 50% margin...ya need about a 35% margin
>overall to break even...that is to pay the bills, pay labor and keep
>nothing extra. So....if you are generally breaking even, don't slam the
>bike shop for selling housing at $2 per foot or cables for $5 or tubes
>for $5 or $6....when they essentiually lose $ on a bike and really lose
>$ when they have to discount at the end of the year for the new
>models...like they will in about 45-60 days....
>
>I agree that $1 for a bearing ball or a spoke is outrageous...but $.70
>for a spoke or $.10 for a bearing ball is still a big margin...

I don't have a problem with decent margins -- but when a $5 (3-4
mailorder) tube costs 8 or 10 bucks, it's time to vote your wallet.

Jasper

 

[[email protected]]

Matt O'Toole wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 02:45:09 -0700, Donald Gillies wrote:
>
> > [email protected] writes:
> >
> >>Yesterday, LBS wanted to charge me $1 (US) a piece for 1/4 inch
> >>bearings, and $0.50 a piece for 5/32 inch bearings.
> >
> >>Please help me attribute honest motivations to this shop. Can anyone
> >>provide honest and plausible reasons for charging prices like that?
> >
> > For this obscene price, and for the other shop that wanted $1.50 for
> > one spoke ...
> >
> > The thing that is killing modern bike shops is the belief that 83.3%
> > markup is a reasonable margin on all their small parts sales.
>
> What really kills them is losing customers from resentment over these
> nickel and dime ripoffs. Yes, I resent paying $6-7 for an inner tube, and
> I won't be back after that!

I agree. If a shop overcharges me for some minor part I can buy for
1/3 the price mail order, I tend to not spend anything else there. I
just built up a bike over the past 6 months and I probably bought $10
of parts locally. Another bike I built up 2 years ago I maybe bought
$50 of parts locally. I figure there was about $4,000 spent on the two
bikes. Of the thousands of dollars I've spent on parts and clothes and
such over the past few years, almost none of it was purchased locally.
For me, good service starts with good prices.



>
> Matt O.