Bar end shifters for touring bike ?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Jacques, Nov 26, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jacques

    Jacques Guest

    I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek 520 or Cannondale T800. Well,
    by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in the local stores at this time
    of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to be selling only mountain or road
    racing bikes).

    I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it is
    very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with the bar
    end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my road bike) ?

    Any hands-on experience appreciated....

    Jacques
     
    Tags:


  2. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek 520 or Cannondale T800.
    > Well, by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in the local stores at
    > this time of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to be selling only
    > mountain or road racing bikes).
    >
    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    > with more standard shifters

    You might also take a look at the Fuji Touring. It uses STI shifters (integrated with the brake
    levers). I really like them...

    The link to this bike is:

    http://www.fujibikes.com/road/bike.asp?category_short_name=road&myArra
    y=87,88,89,90,91,92,93,106,102,94,95,105,96,103,97,104,99,98,100,101,1
    07,108,109,112,110,111,113,114&myArrayID=11&yr=2004

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  3. David

    David Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, jacques <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek 520 or Cannondale T800.
    > Well, by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in the local stores at
    > this time of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to be selling only
    > mountain or road racing bikes).
    >
    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    > with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it
    > is very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with
    > the bar end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my
    > road bike) ?
    >
    > Any hands-on experience appreciated....
    >
    > Jacques

    It's really hard to say for certain whether bar end shifters are popular among all cycle tourists.
    They are definitely popular among experienced tourists and they do seem to last a lot longer than
    typical STI shifters. I don't have experience in using them yet, but I have on order a pair of
    Dura-Ace bar end shifters that I will be putting on on both of my touring and road bikes. Both
    bikes' STI shifters kicked the bucket after many years of riding. I had replaced the dead STIs (one
    half) on both bikes already with Campagnolo Ergos (nice and got a really good deal off eBay) and am
    replacing the other halfs now with bar end shifters soon. So don't get me wrong that I dislike STIs.
    Going to bar end shifters was the toughest financial decision I had to make as it was the cheapest
    option I can make do with for now. If the job prospect is better, I might go back to using STIs
    again in the future..

    But you are quite, there is nothing wrong with STI shifters in general and if you like and prefer to
    use them instead of bar ends, by all means go for it.. But then you should pay a lot more attention
    to bike fitting rather than what's on the bike first. Fitting a touring bike is different than
    fitting you on a race bike or a mountain bike. They are a lot of options to consider (comfort vs
    performance) which you can only do with proper frame sizing. All too often, I see people riding with
    way too short of a stem and way too high of a rise on a frame I suspect was not sized properly for
    them in the first place. Sometime, I see that people don't even ride on drops.. It is certainly
    helpful when you ride against a headwind. I ride on drops when I need to and I find it just as
    comfortable as riding on the hoods. Do you find it uncomfortable (neck and back side) riding on
    drops or is it just because of safety issues??
     
  4. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in news:pan.2003.11.26.19.50.31.991631 @bluewin.ch:
    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring.

    Bar-end shifters are lighter weight, more reliable, easier to maintain, and cheaper than STI
    shifters. The biggest disadvantage is that if you sprint out of the saddle, your knees sometimes hit
    the shift levers. Shifting is also slightly slower, especially when your hands are on the hoods
    instead of the drops.
     
  5. Mike Demicco

    Mike Demicco Guest

    "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in news:p[email protected]:

    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    > with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it
    > is very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with
    > the bar end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my
    > road bike) ?

    I don't know why you would want to shift both front and rear at the same time - it could cause the
    chain to jam (I've seen it happen).

    Otherwise, bar end shifters are simpler, more reliable, don't break cables as often, and have a
    friction option in case your rear derailler gets tweaked. If you out touring in BFE, you want more
    reliable equipment.
     
  6. Harry

    Harry Guest

    One reason I chose bar-ends is that I expected to use a handlebar bag and I felt that I would have
    more "room" for it without the STI cables in the way. I have also found that touring geometry makes
    it more comfortable to be on the drops. Finally, I like that I can get a good idea of what gear I am
    in without looking down - but simply feeling where the bar-end shifters are. I was very disappointed
    that when I went to look for a touring bike at any of my local stores - I could find nothing but
    pictures. Adventure cycling magazine usually has a yearly spring time issue devoted to touring
    bikes. But there again you will only get pictures. Best of luck . Harry

    "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek 520 or Cannondale T800.
    > Well, by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in the local stores at
    > this time of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to be selling only
    > mountain or road racing bikes).
    >
    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar
    end
    > shifters. I've never used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for
    > touring. More specifically: with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or
    > old frame tube shifters), it is very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But
    > how can you do this with the bar end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position
    > (which I never do on my road bike) ?
    >
    > Any hands-on experience appreciated....
    >
    > Jacques
     
  7. Kaputnik

    Kaputnik Guest

    I have these on my touring bike. They may not be as easy to use as STI or Campy Ergopower shifters,
    but they have some advantages for touring.

    Simplicity. Probably easier to do maintenance on the road if something goes wrong with them.

    Friction mode. If your gears get out of adjustment on a long tour, and you're having trouble getting
    the indexing working right, this can be a good thing.

    Cheaper.

    On a touring bike, if you are using it for actual touring, you probably aren't worried about shaving
    seconds off of your time here and there, so wasting a little time moving your hand down to shift
    shouldn't be a big deal. Besides, once you get used to it, you'll use them plenty fast enough
    without really thinking about it. Shifting both at the same time is not something I even worry
    about, although I suppose you can do it.

    "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek 520 or Cannondale T800.
    > Well, by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in the local stores at
    > this time of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to be selling only
    > mountain or road racing bikes).
    >
    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    > with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it
    > is very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with
    > the bar end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my
    > road bike) ?
    >
    > Any hands-on experience appreciated....
    >
    > Jacques
     
  8. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in news:pan.2003.11.26.19.50.31.991631 @bluewin.ch:
    > > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring.
    >
    > Bar-end shifters are lighter weight, more reliable, easier to maintain, and cheaper than STI
    > shifters. The biggest disadvantage is that if you sprint out of the saddle, your knees sometimes
    > hit the shift levers. Shifting is

    You don't have to sprint for this to happen; any out-of-seat pedaling may do this, depending on your
    geometry and handlebar adjustment.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  9. Rick Warner

    Rick Warner Guest

    "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek 520 or Cannondale T800.
    > Well, by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in the local stores at
    > this time of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to be selling only
    > mountain or road racing bikes).
    >
    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    > with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it
    > is very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with
    > the bar end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my
    > road bike) ?
    >
    > Any hands-on experience appreciated....

    First off, bar end shifters are really just downtube shifters that have been attached to special
    pods that wedge into the ends of the bars.

    So why are bar-ends popular with tourists? A number of reasons:

    1) Simple, reliable, less prone to cause issues on a tour than integrated shifters (e.g., STI and
    Ergo). (same is true for DT shifters)
    2) Capable of working in friction mode as well as indexed mode. If your derailleur adjustment
    gets a bit off, just switch to friction until you can get it adjusted.
    3) They work better with mixed drive trains than do integrated shifters. If you want to mix
    Shimano and Campy, road and MTB components, barcons or DT shifters are a better choice than
    STI or Ergo. Touring bikes are usually mixed drive trains of some form or another.
    4) Barcons can be shifted with your hands on the bars; better control which is a good thing on a
    loaded touring bike. DT shifters require you to take one hand off the bars, not a good idea
    while descending big hill with a loaded bike with a stiff crosswind. And the bigger you are,
    the further you have to reach with DT shifters.

    Why in the world would one ever need to shift both derailleurs at once? Not a functionality I have
    ever needed, or perceive I will ever need. BTW, I do have bikes with STI, barcons, and DT shifters,
    so I am very familiar with all of them.

    - rick
     
  10. jacques wrote:

    > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring. More specifically:
    > with more standard shifters (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it
    > is very easy to shift both front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with
    > the bar end shifters, unless you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my
    > road bike) ?
    >
    > Any hands-on experience appreciated....

    We just completed a coast-to-coast tour. My daughter's new bike had STI, while my bike and my wife's
    bike had bar ends.

    Our bar ends needed no attention, as always. But my daughter's rear shifting needed adjusting, in
    that it got reluctant to shift to the biggest cog. Sometimes it would do fine, but it often required
    a "double pump" of the shifter. It would click-shift, then drop one gear higher, requiring a
    re-shift. No fun on a steep climb.

    I played with the adjustments quite a bit, but in the end, she just learned to deal with it. She
    could tell when the ratchet mechanism wasn't going to hold, and she'd just shift again.

    Also, since we installed different chainrings than the stupidly-specified original ones on the bike,
    the front shifting out of the granny always required extra shifts and coaxing. STI front works well
    only with the exact choices Shimano gives you - and for touring, those choices are just wrong.

    Furthermore - like many people, I've had to help fix STI shifters that had become completely
    non-functional. We repaired my friend's using (almost) the only tool a home mechanic can use on STI:
    a pint or so of WD-40 and lots of trial-and-error wiggling of levers, cables, etc.

    I want to be able to take apart everything on my bike, preferably using only my pocket Leatherman
    tool. I want things to be simple, and I want things to be as reliable as a hammer. STI isn't.

    --
    Frank Krygowski
     
  11. Well, bar-end shifters are supposed to be more reliable & easier to fix.

    But, I am not comfortable with bar-end or downtube shifters and love my Campag ergo-levers. I've
    never ever had any problems with them and I find them so convenient and easy to use.

    On my tourer, a Bianchi San Remo, which is fitted out with mudguards, rear rack & I use
    panniers/rackbox on that and on the front I use a bar bag. I have not experienced any problems with
    cabling/bar bag. I have a Minoura Space Grip on the bar to provide extra space for light mountings.
    Oh, and I changed the saddle to a female specific one - Terry's Liberator Ti-lite.

    With the above I've a bike which is, for me, comfortable, reliable and has given me many miles of
    hassle-free, enjoyable cycling and looks like it will continue to do so for a long time yet.

    Cheers, helen s

    --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     
  12. i'll declare my bias up front. i loathe bar end and down-tube shifters. i will always tour with
    sti or ergo.

    frkrygowHALTSPAM <"frkrygowHALTSPAM"@cc.ysu.edu> wrote:
    : STI front works well only with the exact choices Shimano gives you - and for touring, those
    : choices are just wrong.

    24/38/48 worked well on my ultegra triple as long as you placed the front derailleur fairly high.
    trim was satisfactory. it definitely works better with ergo, tho.

    : Furthermore - like many people, I've had to help fix STI shifters that had become completely
    : non-functional. We repaired my friend's using (almost) the only tool a home mechanic can use on
    : STI: a pint or so of WD-40 and lots of trial-and-error wiggling of levers, cables, etc.

    yea, my ultegra sti's finally broke and i fixed 'em with 9sp ergo. i have to say that worked out
    pretty well. i will note it shifts noticeably better with veloce cogs rather than shimano tho (both
    new, same sram chain, centaur long-cage rd).

    : I want to be able to take apart everything on my bike, preferably using only my pocket Leatherman
    : tool. I want things to be simple, and I want things to be as reliable as a hammer. STI isn't.

    i bring along a spare rear down tube shifter when i tour for worse case. to me that takes care of
    all the downsides of sti/ergo.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  13. Wow Rick, you've said a mouth full. With one statement you have barged of your possessions and
    proved a lack of experience with any of them, and done it with the authority that comes with
    ignorance. You could be a clear channel DJ. "Rick Warner" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]...
    > "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > I am currently looking at (or dreaming of) touring bikes like the Trek
    520
    > > or Cannondale T800. Well, by "looking" I mean looking at web sites, as there is no such bike in
    > > the local stores at this time of year (and possibly not at other times either: they all seem to
    > > be selling only mountain or road racing bikes).
    > >
    > > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar
    end
    > > shifters. I've never used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for
    > > touring. More specifically: with more standard
    shifters
    > > (be they new new brake lever shifters or old frame tube shifters), it is very easy to shift both
    > > front and rear gears at the same time. But how can you do this with the bar end shifters, unless
    > > you use the lowermost handlebar position (which I never do on my road bike) ?
    > >
    > > Any hands-on experience appreciated....
    >
    > First off, bar end shifters are really just downtube shifters that have
    been
    > attached to special pods that wedge into the ends of the bars.
    >
    > So why are bar-ends popular with tourists? A number of reasons:
    >
    > 1) Simple, reliable, less prone to cause issues on a tour than
    integrated
    > shifters (e.g., STI and Ergo). (same is true for DT shifters)
    >2) Capable of working in friction mode as well as indexed mode. If
    your
    > derailleur adjustment gets a bit off, just switch to friction until you can get it adjusted.
    > 3) They work better with mixed drive trains than do integrated
    shifters.
    > If you want to mix Shimano and Campy, road and MTB components,
    barcons
    > or DT shifters are a better choice than STI or Ergo. Touring bikes are usually mixed drive
    > trains of some form or another.
    > 4) Barcons can be shifted with your hands on the bars; better control
    which
    > is a good thing on a loaded touring bike. DT shifters require you
    to
    > take one hand off the bars, not a good idea while descending big
    hill
    > with a loaded bike with a stiff crosswind. And the bigger you are,
    the
    > further you have to reach with DT shifters.
    >
    > Why in the world would one ever need to shift both derailleurs at once?
    Not
    > a functionality I have ever needed, or perceive I will ever need. BTW, I do have bikes with STI,
    > barcons, and DT shifters, so I am very familiar
    with
    > all of them.
    >
    > - rick
     
  14. Jamtmp

    Jamtmp Guest

    [email protected] (Rick Warner) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > Why in the world would one ever need to shift both derailleurs at once? Not a functionality I have
    > ever needed, or perceive I will ever need. BTW, I do have bikes with STI, barcons, and DT
    > shifters, so I am very familiar with all of them.
    >
    > - rick

    When I shift chainrings, it jumps the equivalent of 2 rear cogs. So very often I "counter-shift" one
    cog at the same time. I do it all the time with the STI on my road bike and my mountain bike, as I
    did it all the time with my previous road bike with downtube shifters (the 2 levers being so close
    from each other, it was easy to do both moves with the same hand).

    Ok, it is not "simultaneous" shifting strictly speaking (as it might jam), but both moves are done
    so close to each other that you couldn't do it by (a) moving the left hand (b) shifting (c) bringing
    the left hand in place (d) moving right hand (e) shifting etc...

    I am just surprised that this sounds so uncommon !?

    Jacques
     
  15. Jamtmp

    Jamtmp Guest

    David <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<261120031421186361%[email protected]>...

    > Do you find it uncomfortable (neck and back side) riding on drops or is it just because of safety
    > issues??

    I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.

    The first is I find it extremely uncomfortable, far too cramped/too low. I suspect, however, that
    the bike wasn't fitted so well in the first place. I did choose the wrong LBS and was too much in a
    hurry. Now, after 2 years of using this bike occasionally, I start to think of a more comfortable
    bike that could replace both this Bianchi and my commuting hybrid: a touring bike ?

    The second reason is that in this position I have real difficulties reaching the brakes. I could
    make them reachable by tilting the handlebars forward/down, but then the position I use most, with
    hands resting on the top of the brakes, would become less comfortable. By the way, these are
    Campagnolo, and the Shimano levers seem (?) not to require that long fingers.

    From reading the posts in this thread (thanks everybody) I understand I would probably use this
    lower position more often on a touring bike, as probably the handlebars would be higher in the
    first place.

    Jacques
     
  16. Phil Dibert

    Phil Dibert Guest

    I also ride a Bianchi San Remo and after about 10,000 miles I have had absolutely no problems with
    the Campy Ergo shifters. I hadn't really considered the repair concern during a long tour, but the
    option of packing a spare DT shifter seems like a good alternative.

    "dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Well, bar-end shifters are supposed to be more reliable & easier to fix.
    >
    > But, I am not comfortable with bar-end or downtube shifters and love my
    Campag
    > ergo-levers. I've never ever had any problems with them and I find them so convenient and
    > easy to use.
    >
    > On my tourer, a Bianchi San Remo, which is fitted out with mudguards, rear
    rack
    > & I use panniers/rackbox on that and on the front I use a bar bag. I have
    not
    > experienced any problems with cabling/bar bag. I have a Minoura Space Grip
    on
    > the bar to provide extra space for light mountings. Oh, and I changed the saddle to a female
    > specific one - Terry's Liberator Ti-lite.
    >
    > With the above I've a bike which is, for me, comfortable, reliable and has given me many miles of
    > hassle-free, enjoyable cycling and looks like it
    will
    > continue to do so for a long time yet.
    >
    > Cheers, helen s
    >
    >
    > --This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
    > fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$
     
  17. David

    David Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Ken <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in news:pan.2003.11.26.19.50.31.991631 @bluewin.ch:
    > > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has bar end shifters. I've never
    > > used such things, and I was wondering why they seem to be popular for touring.
    >
    > Bar-end shifters are lighter weight, more reliable, easier to maintain, and cheaper than STI
    > shifters. The biggest disadvantage is that if you sprint out of the saddle, your knees sometimes
    > hit the shift levers. Shifting is also slightly slower, especially when your hands are on the
    > hoods instead of the drops.

    There are 3 ways to solve it.. ( In fact, proper installing of these things WILL NEVER result in
    knees hitting the shifters)

    1, Change the drop bar to a wider one. Most touring bikes should come with a wider bar.

    2, Change the drop bar to the one that has both drop ends that flare out. In fact, in my old Miyata
    LT 1000, the drops did flare out and I tought it was a defect. I had bar ends then. That's when I
    found out the flare out was to prevent my knees from hitting the levers.

    3, If finances limit you to change the bar, you can simply chop off the ends of the drops and mount
    the shifters.. That way, you will never hit the shifters with your knees..
     
  18. David

    David Guest

    > We just completed a coast-to-coast tour. My daughter's new bike had STI, while my bike and my
    > wife's bike had bar ends.
    >
    > Our bar ends needed no attention, as always. But my daughter's rear shifting needed adjusting, in
    > that it got reluctant to shift to the biggest cog. Sometimes it would do fine, but it often
    > required a "double pump" of the shifter. It would click-shift, then drop one gear higher,
    > requiring a re-shift. No fun on a steep climb.
    >

    I am not sure which STI model your daughter is running, but if it's a new bike, did she ride it for
    awhile before going on tour just to work out all the kinks??

    If the shifter requires a double pumping effort, there must be something that is causing it to fail.
    My most likely suspect is the cable, either routing, length and pinching (sharp bend) somewhere or
    crud on the underside of the bottom bracket, if the shifter cable goes through there.

    Did she ride with a handle bar bag?

    > I played with the adjustments quite a bit, but in the end, she just learned to deal with it. She
    > could tell when the ratchet mechanism wasn't going to hold, and she'd just shift again.
    >

    Possibly cable again??

    > Also, since we installed different chainrings than the stupidly-specified original ones on the
    > bike, the front shifting out of the granny always required extra shifts and coaxing. STI front
    > works well only with the exact choices Shimano gives you - and for touring, those choices are
    > just wrong.

    Have you ever noticed the teeth difference between one chain ring to another is about 10 teeth?
    52-42-30 or 44-32-22. As long as you maintain about a 10 teeth difference (slightly more ok),
    shifting would be fine. Fortunately, some people decided to yank out the 30 teeth and replace it
    with a 26 or a 24 (get better granny), while keeping the 42 would be to put a lot of effort to ramp
    up from a 24 or 26 to a 42. That's not the fault of Shimano STIs, but rather than the wrong choices
    of gears the typical touring or road bike were sold with on the show floor. There are other chain
    ring sizes you can replace the 42 with to help shifting.. On my old STI setup, I had a 50-38-26 and
    that works good. I now run a 42-32-22 with Campy Ergo on my touring bike.
    >
    > Furthermore - like many people, I've had to help fix STI shifters that had become completely
    > non-functional. We repaired my friend's using (almost) the only tool a home mechanic can use on
    > STI: a pint or so of WD-40 and lots of trial-and-error wiggling of levers, cables, etc.
    >
    > I want to be able to take apart everything on my bike, preferably using only my pocket Leatherman
    > tool. I want things to be simple, and I want things to be as reliable as a hammer. STI isn't.

    I agree that STI is a throw away, though only a few are rebuidable when it comes time too.. Only
    Campy Ergos are truly rebuildable. But you have to look at the perspective that most of these
    shifters had gone through a lot to have failed. Some hard core people ride a lot in one season that
    in your 2 seasons combined -- their Ultegras and or Dura-Aces would cease functioning. But how many
    of us would ride 20,000km + a year to really push the shifters to death? For most riders, STIs are
    not a bad choice, but I felt the same frustration as most of us do when things break. When expensive
    things break, you feel pain that you paid so much and seemed to receive little in product
    satisfaction that you want to vent your frustration out somewhere.
     
  19. Mark

    Mark Guest

    "dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" wrote ...
    > Well, bar-end shifters are supposed to be more reliable & easier to fix.
    >
    > But, I am not comfortable with bar-end or downtube shifters and love my
    Campag
    > ergo-levers. I've never ever had any problems with them and I find them so convenient and
    > easy to use.
    >
    > On my tourer, a Bianchi San Remo, which is fitted out with mudguards, rear
    rack
    > & I use panniers/rackbox on that and on the front I use a bar bag. I have
    not
    > experienced any problems with cabling/bar bag. I have a Minoura Space Grip
    on
    > the bar to provide extra space for light mountings. Oh, and I changed the saddle to a female
    > specific one - Terry's Liberator Ti-lite.

    The Campy Ergo shifters have concealed shifter cables as well as brake cables, which eliminates the
    problem of cable/bar bag interference. The comments about cable bar bag interference referred to
    Shimano STI shifters, which exit the shifter/brake lever at a right angle in just the right spot to
    interfere with a handlebar bag. Note that the complaints about cable/bar bag interference referred
    to a bike with STI shifters/brake levers, which is what touring bikes in this country are almost
    always equipped with.

    Apart from the cable design, the fact that Campy shifters are rebuildable (which STI are not) makes
    them a much more sensible design for touring than STI.

    I use non-index bar ends on the touring bike and the commuter bike because they are more dependable
    (all indexed -shifting problems are eliminated, bent cable housings, worn chains/cassettes/chain
    rings,and bar-bag/cable interference all become non-issues) and because I can install any cassettes,
    chain rings, or derailleurs I want without worrying about indexing compatibility issues.

    I use Campy Ergo-Power on my road bike because a) it came that way and I'm too cheap to replace
    perfectly good parts, b) it really is fun to use when I'm out playing bike racer and riding fast and
    c) It's quite dependable, especially in the semi-desert environment that I live in.
    --
    mark
     
  20. David

    David Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, jamtmp <[email protected]> wrote:

    > David <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<261120031421186361%[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Do you find it uncomfortable (neck and back side) riding on drops or is it just because of
    > > safety issues??
    >
    > I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.
    >
    > The first is I find it extremely uncomfortable, far too cramped/too low. I suspect, however, that
    > the bike wasn't fitted so well in the first place. I did choose the wrong LBS and was too much in
    > a hurry. Now, after 2 years of using this bike occasionally, I start to think of a more
    > comfortable bike that could replace both this Bianchi and my commuting hybrid: a touring bike ?
    >

    Any bike with the proper frame size can be made comfortable if you go through a professional fitter.
    A fitter is like a custom tailor, measuring the body geometry to get a sense of what frame size,
    stem length, stem rise, crank length and seat height would be ideal for your body size, comfort,
    performance and riding style.

    You think that by buying a touring bike, it will solve those 2 problems.. While I think you may be
    on to something since a touring bike gives you slightly more upright position than say a racing
    bike, your commuting hybrid setup should be similar to a typical stock touring bike. If you are
    feeling uncomfortable on the hybrid too, then I am suspecting more than just a simple solution of
    buying another bike.

    My advise would be to seek out a bicycle fitter in your area who is willing to help you do a quick
    measurement of your body (bring your most uncomfortable bike with you ofcourse) and determine what's
    wrong with your bikes' geometry. If the drop bars are too cramped, this can be easily solved with
    wider drop bars, which are available. True touring bikes should come with wider drops. If the bars
    are set too low, maybe a combination of a shorter and higher rise stem would help. These solutions
    are just examples of what you can do with your current bikes to make them more comfortable. You
    should at least see someone or even pay someone to make your bikes comfy..

    > The second reason is that in this position I have real difficulties reaching the brakes. I could
    > make them reachable by tilting the handlebars forward/down, but then the position I use most, with
    > hands resting on the top of the brakes, would become less comfortable. By the way, these are
    > Campagnolo, and the Shimano levers seem (?) not to require that long fingers.
    >

    Also a few Shimano levers has an adjustable reach, which I think is a special version of the Ultegra
    and the 8 speed Sora.

    It is interesting to note that drop bars come in various sizes in width and length (reach between
    the end tip of the flat bar where it curves in to the hood to the bend down curve to the drop where
    the shifter hood resides). Again, these are fixable by a professional fitter. In fact, both my road
    and touring bikes met the same fate as you did. I bought them because they were cheap and dealt with
    the wrong shops. Finally, I broke down and went to a professional fitter who educated me a lot about
    proper bike fitting. After changing the drop bars, stem length and rise PLUS crank length and added
    shims on my cleats to solve my knee problems, both my bikes are perfect! I can ride centuries with
    very very little to no neck and back pain and my overall performance and efficiency has gained,
    because I can use the drops whenever the situation warrants. The only saving grace was that I lucked
    out on both bike frames being the right sizes for me. My fitter told me that, some other people who
    came to see him were not that lucky. Too large of a frame size will force you to use the shortest
    stem and the highest rise. That's not good for steering performance.

    > From reading the posts in this thread (thanks everybody) I understand I would probably use this
    > lower position more often on a touring bike, as probably the handlebars would be higher in the
    > first place.
    >
    > Jacques

    Not necessarily.. You should have no problems using the drops on either a touring bike or road bike.
    Some people set their drops lower intentionally as that's what they prefer on touring bikes. I have
    them lower on the road bike (more aerodynamic) and slightly higher on my touring bike to give me a
    more upright riding position. It is simply my riding preference, but not being able to ride on drops
    sounds to me that you may have some issues with your cockpit fitting rather than the bikes you own.

    Hope this helps.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...