Bar end shifters for touring bike ?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Jacques, Nov 26, 2003.

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  1. jamtmp wrote:

    >
    > When I shift chainrings, it jumps the equivalent of 2 rear cogs. So very often I "counter-shift"
    > one cog at the same time. I do it all the time with the STI on my road bike and my mountain bike,
    > as I did it all the time with my previous road bike with downtube shifters (the 2 levers being so
    > close from each other, it was easy to do both moves with the same hand).
    >
    > Ok, it is not "simultaneous" shifting strictly speaking (as it might jam), but both moves are done
    > so close to each other that you couldn't do it by (a) moving the left hand (b) shifting (c)
    > bringing the left hand in place (d) moving right hand (e) shifting etc...
    >
    > I am just surprised that this sounds so uncommon !?

    It may be for some riders. It's not common for me. I seldom feel a need to fine-tune my gear ratio
    to that degree.

    --
    Frank Krygowski
     


  2. Dennis Johnston wrote:

    > Wow Rick, you've said a mouth full. With one statement you have barged of your possessions and
    > proved a lack of experience with any of them, and done it with the authority that comes with
    > ignorance. You could be a clear channel DJ.

    ???

    Rick's answer was, IMO, intelligent, reasonable, and well-written. Dennis, OTOH...

    --
    Frank Krygowski
     
  3. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "jamtmp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > David <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<261120031421186361%[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Do you find it uncomfortable (neck and back side) riding on drops or is it just because of
    > > safety issues??
    >
    > I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.
    >
    > The first is I find it extremely uncomfortable, far too cramped/too low. I suspect, however, that
    > the bike wasn't fitted so well in the first place. I did choose the wrong LBS and was too much in
    > a hurry. Now, after 2 years of using this bike occasionally, I start to think of a more
    > comfortable bike that could replace both this Bianchi and my commuting hybrid: a touring bike ?
    >
    > The second reason is that in this position I have real difficulties reaching the brakes. I could
    > make them reachable by tilting the handlebars forward/down, but then the position I use most, with
    > hands resting on the top of the brakes, would become less comfortable. By the way, these are
    > Campagnolo, and the Shimano levers seem (?) not to require that long fingers.
    >
    > From reading the posts in this thread (thanks everybody) I understand I would probably use this
    > lower position more often on a touring bike, as probably the handlebars would be higher in the
    > first place.
    >

    Jacques, You might want to consider that you can also move the brake levers independent of the
    handlebars. Moving them down on the bar puts the blades closer to the drops but also moves the hood
    area away. You can somewhat compensate by rotating the bars back upwards. Play with this until you
    find a suitable position.

    Robin Hubert
     
  4. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:271120030722243756%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Ken <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:pan.2003.11.26.19.50.31.991631
    > > @bluewin.ch:
    > > > I've seen that the Trek 520, like many others in this category, has
    bar end
    > > > shifters. I've never used such things, and I was wondering why they
    seem
    > > > to be popular for touring.
    > >
    > > Bar-end shifters are lighter weight, more reliable, easier to maintain,
    and
    > > cheaper than STI shifters. The biggest disadvantage is that if you
    sprint
    > > out of the saddle, your knees sometimes hit the shift levers. Shifting
    is
    > > also slightly slower, especially when your hands are on the hoods
    instead of
    > > the drops.
    >
    > There are 3 ways to solve it.. ( In fact, proper installing of these things WILL NEVER result in
    > knees hitting the shifters)
    >
    > 1, Change the drop bar to a wider one. Most touring bikes should come with a wider bar.
    >
    > 2, Change the drop bar to the one that has both drop ends that flare out. In fact, in my old
    > Miyata LT 1000, the drops did flare out and I tought it was a defect. I had bar ends then. That's
    > when I found out the flare out was to prevent my knees from hitting the levers.
    >
    > 3, If finances limit you to change the bar, you can simply chop off the ends of the drops and
    > mount the shifters.. That way, you will never hit the shifters with your knees..

    You can do this but you're talking of taking about two inches off when considering the overall
    length of a bar-end shifter when fully extended. On most bars, especially "anatomic" drop bars, you
    will run out of straight tube space in which to mount the shifters.

    I'm not saying it won't help, but it isn't necessarily a cure.

    Robin Hubert
     
  5. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On 27 Nov 2003 03:46:12 -0800, [email protected] (jamtmp) from http://groups.google.com wrote:

    >I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.

    I ride a Bianchi and never ride on drops, either. I don't have any. And, what's a shifter?

    --
    real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com I guess you guys got BIG MUSCLES from doing too
    much STUDYING!
     
  6. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:271120030717507339%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, jamtmp <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > David <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<261120031421186361%[email protected]>...
    > >
    > > > Do you find it uncomfortable (neck and back side) riding on drops or
    is
    > > > it just because of safety issues??
    > >
    > > I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.
    > >
    > > The first is I find it extremely uncomfortable, far too cramped/too low. I suspect, however,
    > > that the bike wasn't fitted so well in the first place. I did choose the wrong LBS and was too
    > > much in a hurry. Now, after 2 years of using this bike occasionally, I start to think of a more
    > > comfortable bike that could replace both this Bianchi and my commuting hybrid: a touring bike ?
    > >

    <much snipped>

    > It is interesting to note that drop bars come in various sizes in width and length (reach between
    > the end tip of the flat bar where it curves in to the hood to the bend down curve to the drop
    > where the shifter hood resides).

    Handlebar reach does not effect reach to the brakes levers. It does effect reach to the bars (except
    the tops).

    > Again, these are fixable by a professional fitter. In fact, both my road and touring bikes met the
    > same fate as you did. I bought them because they were cheap and dealt with the wrong shops.
    > Finally, I broke down and went to a professional fitter who educated me a lot about proper bike
    > fitting. After changing the drop bars, stem length and rise PLUS crank length and added shims on
    > my cleats to solve my knee problems, both my bikes are perfect!

    Your bike fitter is also a physiatrist?

    >I can ride centuries with very very little to no neck and back pain and my overall performance and
    >efficiency has gained, because I can use the drops whenever the situation warrants. The only saving
    >grace was that I lucked out on both bike frames being the right sizes for me. My fitter told me
    >that, some other people who came to see him were not that lucky. Too large of a frame size will
    >force you to use the shortest stem and the highest rise. That's not good for steering performance.

    Would you please explain the consequenses of "too large of a frame size" and "shortest stem"
    combination? I think you are just spouting some crap you heard somewhere. It just isn't true to any
    significant degree that "steering performance" is compromised.

    You should know that anyone can ride a range of bike sizes and be happy by modifying the reach with
    stem length and angle. In fact, given the choice of two or more sizes I will always err on the side
    of larger, as long as I can get a reasonable stem on (say, no less than 8cm). The larger frame will
    ride nicer.

    >
    > > From reading the posts in this thread (thanks everybody) I understand I would probably use this
    > > lower position more often on a touring bike, as probably the handlebars would be higher in the
    > > first place.
    > >
    > > Jacques
    >
    > Not necessarily.. You should have no problems using the drops on either a touring bike or road
    > bike. Some people set their drops lower intentionally as that's what they prefer on touring bikes.
    > I have them lower on the road bike (more aerodynamic) and slightly higher on my touring bike to
    > give me a more upright riding position. It is simply my riding preference, but not being able to
    > ride on drops sounds to me that you may have some issues with your cockpit fitting rather than the
    > bikes you own.
    >
    > Hope this helps.

    Robin Hubert
     
  7. David

    David Guest

    > Handlebar reach does not effect reach to the brakes levers. It does effect reach to the bars
    > (except the tops).
    >

    It will effect the reach of the brake levers from the drops if the shifters were mounted in a way
    that they are facing up. People with overreaching bars were caused with bikes that were marketed as
    touring bikes when in fact they were nothing more than slapped together hybrids that were designed
    with flat bars in mind and that came instead with drop bars which extended the reach of the hoods.
    Most people did a temporary fix by turning the drop bar so that the hoods would be closer to the
    rider. This in effect did 2 things. Raise the height of the hoods (they are pointed up more) so that
    you are riding a bit more upright plus the reach of the shifter hoods are decreased because raising
    cause them to have a shorter reach.. The downside to this action is that, it won't be comfortable on
    the drops because while you may solve the hood reach problem, you did not solve anything on the
    drops. In fact, by tilting the brake hoods / shifter hoods upward, it creates an odd angle that you
    can't get a good reach on the brake levers while you're on the drops. And since by tilting the drop
    bar upwards causes the ends of the drops to point downwards, you are in effect extending the reach
    of the drops, thus exerting unnecessary bending on your neck and back if your hands are placed on.
    My fitter pointed that out and made the necessary modifications. On my touring bike, the
    modification was slight. The road bike, however, (which is a Bike Friday and bought second hand) did
    not fared so well. Luckily, with the revised measurements, Green Gear was kind enough under their
    life time satisfaction warranty, sent me a replacement drop bar (MUCH SHORTER) than that on my
    touring bike plus a brand new goose neck stem free of charge -- kudos to them and Hanz. After the
    installation and test ride afterwards, the benefit was instant for both bikes.. The hoods, which
    were pointed really high at the time for both bikes, are now very level. I can reach the levers on
    the drops or hoods no problem and I now ride on drops where I would never want to before..

    > > Again, these are fixable by a professional fitter. In fact, both my road and touring bikes met
    > > the same fate as you did. I bought them because they were cheap and dealt with the wrong shops.
    > > Finally, I broke down and went to a professional fitter who educated me a lot about proper bike
    > > fitting. After changing the drop bars, stem length and rise PLUS crank length and added shims on
    > > my cleats to solve my knee problems, both my bikes are perfect!
    >
    > Your bike fitter is also a physiatrist?

    No.. This is his way of providing a full service. However, I especially liked his touch for adding
    shims on my cleats. He realized that I have an abnormal amount of pronation on one foot and a slight
    amount of supination on the other. That's nice, because my left knee was hurting a lot when I passed
    the 50 mile stage. After correcting for pronation and supination, I can ride 100 miles no problem
    with no pain whatsover..

    >
    > Would you please explain the consequenses of "too large of a frame size" and "shortest stem"
    > combination? I think you are just spouting some crap you heard somewhere. It just isn't true to
    > any significant degree that "steering performance" is compromised.
    >

    There are a lot of opinions on what is an ideal length of the stem should be. Most experience riders
    seem to hover around 90 to 110mm. And since feeling like this is always personal, it is difficult to
    quantify what is the ideal. However, based on my experience, I had a chance to own a nice custom
    made Olmo (steel) that was properly sized and build up thanks to my fitter's measurement. The ride
    was simply astounding when compared to my 2 other bikes. The steering and the comfort level are
    excellent. Keep in mind that, the sizing of my ex-custom road racing bike were based on consultation
    with my builder and fitter on what I wanted to see improved from my 2 other bikes. I could
    definitely feel the difference, so much so that my personal opinion seemed justified to at least
    have the bike properly sized and fitted as the important step in bike shopping rather than worry
    about the minor details of bar ends vs STIs vs Ergos.. To give you an idea what my ex-Olmo size was.
    It had a top tube of 50cm, while my touring had 53 cm effective (Since it was slanted) and the Bike
    Friday 55cm effective as well. I was running shorter stems with higher rise on 2 bikes, while I ran
    a standard 105mm with a moderate rise on the racing bike.. However, I am also aware that there are
    other geometry differences between a race bike and a tour bike that might effect it. I just simply
    offered my opinion that I can feel an improvement in handling and steer control.. Anyhow, I finally
    had to sell the Olmo not because I hated it, but because I was running thin on cash flow.. It was a
    worthwhile experiment nonetheless..

    > You should know that anyone can ride a range of bike sizes and be happy by modifying the reach
    > with stem length and angle. In fact, given the choice of two or more sizes I will always err on
    > the side of larger, as long as I can get a reasonable stem on (say, no less than 8cm). The larger
    > frame will ride nicer.
    >

    Most manufacturers of road bikes are now going into designs so that they can limit themselves to
    producing very few frame sizes. This undoubtly improves cost efficiency as you don't have to produce
    and stock different frame sizes right.. Some makers even offer just 3 sizes S/M/L and left you to
    fend for yourself to make it fit right. Shorter and super high rise stems, more upright brake hoods
    and so forth as the common solution. What most people do not know is that, they are frame makers
    that do make frames either in 1 or 2 cm increments. But ofcourse, they are not cheap in the sense
    that you can get the best deal for the buck type of thing and they are not well known or hyped among
    the outer circles of experienced cyclists. People who has cycled for a long time will usually figure
    out right away what they want in terms of comfort and performance from the bike. Unless you are not
    planning to ride more than 25km a day, you will figure out what sort of improvements you might want
    to see added to either your existing bike or your new bike. All is not doomed to an existing bike
    owner either.. If the frame size is too big, you simply swap for a smaller frame under the guidance
    of your fitter and migrate the components then to the new frame to improve the level of performance
    and comfort a well fitted bike can give you. You do not need to force upon yourself to just get
    another bike to help solve your fitting problem.

    A common problem I see today is that there are simply too much hype floating around concertrating on
    the benefits of frame quality and material and sizes that beginning cyclists are fixated for one
    brand one frame material that they would forego the benefit of proper sizing and made do with stem,
    bar and other modifications to make it fit ok..
     
  8. B <[email protected]> wrote:
    : I have bikes with both bar end and ergo. Both shift well and I like both a lot.

    ok ... ?

    i once had a bike with down tube shifters that was stolen.

    i enjoy having potted plants around the house. i think they make the place look nice.

    they often die from neglect.

    i often eat quaker oats for breakfast.

    lunch is my main meal.

    lately i've been practicing biking backwards while waiting for food when i buy dinner from a
    drive-through take-away a quarter mile from my apartment.

    it snowed today.

    did you have a point?
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  9. David wrote:

    [responding to my post:]
    >>We just completed a coast-to-coast tour. My daughter's new bike had STI, while my bike and my
    >>wife's bike had bar ends.
    >>
    >>Our bar ends needed no attention, as always. But my daughter's rear shifting needed adjusting, in
    >>that it got reluctant to shift to the biggest cog. Sometimes it would do fine, but it often
    >>required a "double pump" of the shifter. It would click-shift, then drop one gear higher,
    >>requiring a re-shift. No fun on a steep climb.
    >>
    >
    >
    > I am not sure which STI model your daughter is running, but if it's a new bike, did she ride it
    > for awhile before going on tour just to work out all the kinks??
    >
    > If the shifter requires a double pumping effort, there must be something that is causing it to
    > fail. My most likely suspect is the cable, either routing, length and pinching (sharp bend)
    > somewhere or crud on the underside of the bottom bracket, if the shifter cable goes through there.
    >
    > Did she ride with a handle bar bag?
    >

    She did ride for a while to get out the kinks. This particular kink began to appear after about two
    weeks on tour. By that time, the bike was about 9 months old, but the rear derailleur and cassette
    had been changed about a month before the tour began.

    Yes, she had a handlebar bag. Still, the problem certainly seemed to be internal to the right
    shifter. Again, it would click into the last (lowest gear) position, but not hold it on the first
    try. She could feel (eventually) that the internal ratchet wasn't catching and holding.

    Naturally, I checked for cable problems, adjustment problems, etc. A WD-40 flush helped for a while,
    but didn't really cure it.

    >>Also, since we installed different chainrings than the stupidly-specified original ones on the
    >>bike, the front shifting out of the granny always required extra shifts and coaxing. STI front
    >>works well only with the exact choices Shimano gives you - and for touring, those choices are
    >>just wrong.
    >
    >
    > Have you ever noticed the teeth difference between one chain ring to another is about 10 teeth?
    > 52-42-30 or 44-32-22. As long as you maintain about a 10 teeth difference (slightly more ok),
    > shifting would be fine.

    Here, we could branch into a discussion of stupidly-specified gears, courtesy of Shimano.

    The bike (and the daughter) no longer live here, so I might get some details wrong, but: she's
    short, and the bike (a Terry) came with 165 cranks, which we wanted to maintain. But they were
    Shimano's "racing triple" setup (who on earth needs a high gear of 130 inches??) which meant we
    needed rings to fit a 130mm bolt circle. That greatly restricted the size of the middle chainring.

    I could have gone to a mountain bike front crank, but someone has decided that mountain bikes all
    need extra-long crank arms - which seems silly to me. (Those people should read Sheldon's article on
    gain ratios.) I didn't want to court knee problems by giving 175s to a person who needed 165s.

    And I could have gone to a mountain bike front derailleur, which would have been a better match for
    the smaller diameter sprockets we ended up with. But Shimano's MTB front derailleurs require a
    different cable pull than the road models. I'd have to pitch that front STI shifter, and buy bar
    ends plus brake levers...

    Ultimately, after much frustrated shopping, I kept the 165 cranks, got chainrings from different
    sources, used the smallest middle one that would fit, and picking the granny ring to fit the
    Appalachians. That meant more than a ten-tooth jump, and it meant no fancy hooks and ramps on the
    middle ring.

    I spent quite a while trying to get reliable front shifts out of the granny despite the absence of
    Shimano's hooks and ramps, but ultimately she had to live with "good enough."

    Personally, I think STI is nice - but not worth the restrictions it imposes. It works well only if
    you like the front ratios Shimano blesses, and only if the mechanism is never abused by things like
    falls, dirt, or exceedingly long life. Plus, it's essentially unrepairable.

    To me, this means it's intended for racers who have sponsors and mechanics, or for well-heeled
    dilettantes who want fancy stuff that they can just replace at the drop of a hat when it's no
    longer perfect.

    Touring is different than that.

    --
    Frank Krygowski
     
  10. [email protected] wrote:

    > [email protected] (Rick Warner) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >>
    >> Why in the world would one ever need to shift both derailleurs at once? Not a functionality I
    >> have ever needed, or perceive I will ever need. BTW, I do have bikes with STI, barcons, and DT
    >> shifters, so I am very familiar with all of them.
    >>
    >> - rick
    >
    > When I shift chainrings, it jumps the equivalent of 2 rear cogs. So very often I "counter-shift"
    > one cog at the same time. I do it all the time with the STI on my road bike and my mountain bike,
    > as I did it all the time with my previous road bike with downtube shifters (the 2 levers being so
    > close from each other, it was easy to do both moves with the same hand).
    >
    > Ok, it is not "simultaneous" shifting strictly speaking (as it might jam), but both moves are done
    > so close to each other that you couldn't do it by (a) moving the left hand (b) shifting (c)
    > bringing the left hand in place (d) moving right hand (e) shifting etc...
    >
    > I am just surprised that this sounds so uncommon !?

    I often shift both at approximately the same time. I have bar-end shifters; I don't understand what
    the difficulty is. I don't use the same hand for both shifters, of course, but why would I need to?

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you
    underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." --Matt Groening
     
  11. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 27 Nov 2003 04:56:28 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]> wrote:
    >lately i've been practicing biking backwards while waiting for food when i buy dinner from a
    >drive-through take-away a quarter mile from my apartment.

    Fixed, or freewheel?
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  12. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 27 Nov 2003 03:33:14 -0800, [email protected] (jamtmp) wrote:
    >[email protected] (Rick Warner) wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]>...
    >> Why in the world would one ever need to shift both derailleurs at once? Not
    >
    >When I shift chainrings, it jumps the equivalent of 2 rear cogs. So very often I "counter-shift"
    >one cog at the same time. I do it all the
    <snip>
    >Ok, it is not "simultaneous" shifting strictly speaking (as it might jam), but both moves are done
    >so close to each other that you couldn't
    >
    >I am just surprised that this sounds so uncommon !?

    I do it all the time. I usually do it simultaneously, and have had it jam _once_, but it was no
    problem. Maybe something would have broken if I had been torquing hard, but I usually let off the
    pressure a bit when shifting, for the sake of my drivetrain...

    >Jacques
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  13. David

    David Guest

    > > Did she ride with a handle bar bag?
    > >

    > Yes, she had a handlebar bag. Still, the problem certainly seemed to be internal to the right
    > shifter. Again, it would click into the last (lowest gear) position, but not hold it on the first
    > try. She could feel (eventually) that the internal ratchet wasn't catching and holding.
    >
    > Naturally, I checked for cable problems, adjustment problems, etc. A WD-40 flush helped for a
    > while, but didn't really cure it.
    >

    The reason I asked whether she rides with the handlebar bag was because, I had an exactly similar
    problem like your daughter's bike. It would happen on tours, but not on club rides.. Later, I found
    out that it was my handlebar bag that was causing the shifting problem as I always use this bag on
    tour but never on club rides. As you are well aware, STIs and handle bar bags do not always make
    good husband and wives. The cable housings protuding from the STI shifters would hit against the
    sides of the bag, creating a sharp bend on the left & right housings. This would create noticeable
    cable friction or drag between the shifter and the rear derailleur. The problem is compounded by how
    sharp the bend on the cable housing (worst with narrow racing bars) is in relation to the bag and
    that every road vibration the bag receives from the drop bar shakes the housing and may create very
    small cable pull that can cause miss shifting or it won't shift properly at all..

    For my bikes with STIs, I solved the problem by replacing the original stock housing with new
    Shimano SIS housing I bought in roll of 25ft and custom lengthen both sides so the bend created
    between the bag and the shifter would be optimal for smooth cable shifting. I tested it with a new
    cable (sliding in and out) to make sure it works good. After the modification, the shifters worked
    marvelously with the bag in place.

    > Here, we could branch into a discussion of stupidly-specified gears, courtesy of Shimano.
    >

    I think it's just not with Shimano alone.. Campagnolo isn't any much better either. Although
    their ten speed stuff come with lower gearing, some people might argue that it's not even low
    enough for some loaded touring applications. But you need to see the market in perspective and
    that is, most people buy road bikes to ride around the city or the country side. 52-42-30 & 11-23
    or 25 are adequate for those applications.. Then eventually, these people find their way into
    joining Backroads on tour du Tuscany and they eventually realized that stock gearing leaves a lot
    to be desired.

    We developed our gearing selection based on riding experience. Since gearing is not only a
    measurement of inches, but also the cadence to which you can ride comfortably. It is really not
    Shimano's fault at all by providing these insanely high gears. What Shimano provides is a standard
    to which you can either improve or kept alone. Noted that Shimano has made significant progress in
    hybriding mountain and road parts together, so you can swap out gears and cranks you don't want with
    relative ease. I guess, it's a question of where to find them in quantity or in expediency that
    deters people from upgrading or even the general knowledge that you CAN actually get lower gears
    than 11-23 & 52-42-30 give you is lacking in some cyclists.
     
  14. Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:
    :>lately i've been practicing biking backwards while waiting for food when i buy dinner from a
    :>drive-through take-away a quarter mile from my apartment.
    :
    : Fixed, or freewheel?

    fixed, rick. getting passable, too.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  15. Jacques

    Jacques Guest

    On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:05:52 +0000, Kevan Smith wrote:

    > On 27 Nov 2003 03:46:12 -0800, [email protected] (jamtmp) from http://groups.google.com wrote:
    >
    >>I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.
    >
    > I ride a Bianchi and never ride on drops, either. I don't have any. And, what's a shifter?
    >
    >
    > --
    > real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com I guess you guys got BIG MUSCLES from doing too
    > much STUDYING!

    By "shifter" I mean the lever that allows you to shift gears. Perhaps it is not proper english, but
    everybody on this thread seems to understand what I am talking about. I am making the effort of
    writing in english. I could also use french, make no mistakes, and see if you can do better.

    Jacques
     
  16. Jacques

    Jacques Guest

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:14:25 +0000, David wrote:

    > .....Noted that Shimano has made significant progress in hybriding mountain and road parts
    > together, so you can swap out gears and cranks you don't want with relative ease. I guess, it's a
    > question of where to find them in quantity or in expediency that deters people from upgrading or
    > even the general knowledge that you CAN actually get lower gears than 11-23 & 52-42-30 give you is
    > lacking in some cyclists.

    That was another question I was about to ask. Can you use mountain bike rear and front derailleurs
    with 105 levers ? Can you use cantilever brakes with 105 levers ? If you have v-brakes, what levers
    can you use that would fit on drop handlebars ? I know Shimano does not "recommend" doing any of
    these, but is there reliable information somewhere to be found ?

    Jacques
     
  17. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    jacques wrote:
    >
    > On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:05:52 +0000, Kevan Smith wrote:
    >
    > > I ride a Bianchi and never ride on drops, either. I don't have any. And, what's a shifter?

    > By "shifter" I mean the lever that allows you to shift gears. Perhaps it is not proper english,
    > but everybody on this thread seems to understand what I am talking about. I am making the effort
    > of writing in english. I could also use french, make no mistakes, and see if you can do better.

    I suspect the person asking "And, what's a shifter?" rides a fixed gear bike, which of course
    lacks shifters.

    "Shifter" is indeed the standard term for the lever (or other device such as the rotating
    handgrips found on many mountain bikes and some city bikes with internally geared hubs) used to
    effect gear changes.

    Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
     
  18. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:05:52 +0000, Kevan Smith wrote:
    >
    > > On 27 Nov 2003 03:46:12 -0800, [email protected] (jamtmp) from http://groups.google.com wrote:
    > >
    > >>I currently ride a Bianchi road bike and never ride on drops. There are 2 reasons.
    > >
    > > I ride a Bianchi and never ride on drops, either. I don't have any. And, what's a shifter?
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > real e-mail addy: kevansmith23 at yahoo dot com I guess you guys got BIG MUSCLES from doing too
    > > much STUDYING!
    >
    > By "shifter" I mean the lever that allows you to shift gears. Perhaps it is not proper english,
    > but everybody on this thread seems to understand what I am talking about. I am making the effort
    > of writing in english. I could also use french, make no mistakes, and see if you can do better.

    Your English is fine, a lot better than my French (though I do read it a little); he was teasing you
    by implying he uses a fixed gear (with no shifting).

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  19. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    jacques wrote:
    >
    > That was another question I was about to ask. Can you use mountain bike rear and front
    > derailleurs with 105 levers ? Can you use cantilever brakes with 105 levers ? If you have
    > v-brakes, what levers can you use that would fit on drop handlebars ? I know Shimano does not
    > "recommend" doing any of these, but is there reliable information somewhere to be found ?

    If you mean STI levers, a "MTB" rear derailleur and cantis will work fine. A MTB front derailleur
    will not index properly with an STI shifter. For v-brakes, you can use various adapters, none of
    which are optimal, or you can use mini-v-brakes which are designed for use with road levers.
    Unfortunately, the mini-v's do not provide much tire or fender clearance. I prefer the cantilevers
    for this application.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
    http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com
     
  20. Smokey

    Smokey Guest

    "jacques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:14:25 +0000, David wrote:
    >
    >
    > > .....Noted that Shimano has made significant progress in hybriding mountain and road parts
    > > together, so you can swap out gears and cranks you don't want with relative ease. I guess, it's
    > > a question of where to find them in quantity or in expediency that deters people from upgrading
    > > or even the general knowledge that you CAN actually get lower gears than 11-23 & 52-42-30 give
    > > you is lacking in some cyclists.
    >
    > That was another question I was about to ask. Can you use mountain bike rear and front derailleurs
    > with 105 levers ? Can you use cantilever brakes with 105 levers ? If you have v-brakes, what
    > levers can you use that would fit on drop handlebars ? I know Shimano does not "recommend" doing
    > any of these, but is there reliable information somewhere to be found ?
    >
    > Jacques

    i'm using shimano tiagra 8 spd STI with a deore rear (MTB) derailleur, 12-32 cassette, and avid
    canti brakes with no problems. i don't know about the front derailleur, as i'm still using my stock
    one. crankset is a double with 46/34 rings, which allows me to climb steep hills without using
    triple rings. the bike is a 2001 lemond poprad cyclocross set up for road and light trail use.
     
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