J
John Forrest Tomlinson
Guest
On 18 Jan 2006 19:36:43 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>>
>> It's pretty clear that many people -- esp casual riders -- want more
>> comfort on their bikes. That's one reason large tired bikes have
>> become widely more popular in comparison to the more narrow-tired
>> "racing bikes" that were pushed (via marketing) in the 70s and 80s.
>> Marketing can push some things, but unless the things are appropriate
>> for the user, the popularity will wane over time. (Biopace, drillium,
>> aero brake calipers, etc, etc. are examples) Whether suspension forks
>> are well-executed at low price points is another issue but their
>> popularity is a response to consumer desires.
>>
>> I don't think many casual riders care much about riding in the rain or
>> on very wet roads -- full-size fenders haven't been popular for
>> adult-sized bikes in the US for my lifetime or maybe more (40 years?
>> ever?) and recent forks dont' have much to do with that.
>>
>> Tim -- now it's time for you to try to get the last word in.
>
>Can I have his turn?
>
>Your idea seems to be that what's on the market is there because people
>want it, and what's not on the market is absent because people don't
>want it.
Not exactly. THings that persist in the market are desired. Some
things are marketed heavily, sell for awhile, and then fade because
they're really not so good.
>
>I think it's more common that people are _told_ what they should want,
>and then believe it. It's a fashion thing. And fashion is driven, at
>least in America, by the racing image.
>Biopace is derided these days... um, except by the friend of mine who
>claimed they saved his knees and still searches for them. And by this
>guy Sheldon Brown, whom you may have heard of, and who says the racer
>crowd drove them out of fashion. (Sheldon's got a reputation for
>knowledge, you may recall.)
>
>Aero brake calipers are out of fashion. Does it mean they didn't work?
> Not exactly. Sure, the aero advantages were minute and negligible,
>but the significant "disadvantage" was probably that Shimano had
>something else it wanted to be "in style."
Dura Ace AX didnt' stop so. Neither did Dia Compe AGC..... Delta was
far worse.
> Remember the ancient car
>ads from the 1950s? "Wouldn't you rather have _this_ year's model?"
>Regarding the suspension forks on road bikes: People don't want
>suspension forks per se. They want comfort.
I think I said that.
>There are far better ways
>to get comfort on a bike than by fastening a lot of bouncy metal to the
>front wheel.
> But people aren't going to bother to learn about things
>like proper fit, tire sizes, handlebar styles, etc. that could solve
>their "problem" simply and effectively.
Yeah, I know, you and I are the smart ones who know how to do it
right, unlike the masses who haven't learned what's right for them.
Suspension + big tires seems to me what people want. We both bikes
with both on the road.
>Suspension forks for road bikes and STI are much alike, in my view.
>They both fit that last paragraph perfectly.
If by road bikes you mean narrow-tire road bikes with suspension
forks, then yeah, that's a waste. Do they actually sell? I know
they've been "marketed." Will they actually be on the market for
long? Will they take over like STI did? Hmm. Why is one thing really
prevalent and the other not? Could it have something to do with real
function? Just a thought.
JT
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>
>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>>
>> It's pretty clear that many people -- esp casual riders -- want more
>> comfort on their bikes. That's one reason large tired bikes have
>> become widely more popular in comparison to the more narrow-tired
>> "racing bikes" that were pushed (via marketing) in the 70s and 80s.
>> Marketing can push some things, but unless the things are appropriate
>> for the user, the popularity will wane over time. (Biopace, drillium,
>> aero brake calipers, etc, etc. are examples) Whether suspension forks
>> are well-executed at low price points is another issue but their
>> popularity is a response to consumer desires.
>>
>> I don't think many casual riders care much about riding in the rain or
>> on very wet roads -- full-size fenders haven't been popular for
>> adult-sized bikes in the US for my lifetime or maybe more (40 years?
>> ever?) and recent forks dont' have much to do with that.
>>
>> Tim -- now it's time for you to try to get the last word in.
>
>Can I have his turn?
>
>Your idea seems to be that what's on the market is there because people
>want it, and what's not on the market is absent because people don't
>want it.
Not exactly. THings that persist in the market are desired. Some
things are marketed heavily, sell for awhile, and then fade because
they're really not so good.
>
>I think it's more common that people are _told_ what they should want,
>and then believe it. It's a fashion thing. And fashion is driven, at
>least in America, by the racing image.
>Biopace is derided these days... um, except by the friend of mine who
>claimed they saved his knees and still searches for them. And by this
>guy Sheldon Brown, whom you may have heard of, and who says the racer
>crowd drove them out of fashion. (Sheldon's got a reputation for
>knowledge, you may recall.)
>
>Aero brake calipers are out of fashion. Does it mean they didn't work?
> Not exactly. Sure, the aero advantages were minute and negligible,
>but the significant "disadvantage" was probably that Shimano had
>something else it wanted to be "in style."
Dura Ace AX didnt' stop so. Neither did Dia Compe AGC..... Delta was
far worse.
> Remember the ancient car
>ads from the 1950s? "Wouldn't you rather have _this_ year's model?"
>Regarding the suspension forks on road bikes: People don't want
>suspension forks per se. They want comfort.
I think I said that.
>There are far better ways
>to get comfort on a bike than by fastening a lot of bouncy metal to the
>front wheel.
> But people aren't going to bother to learn about things
>like proper fit, tire sizes, handlebar styles, etc. that could solve
>their "problem" simply and effectively.
Yeah, I know, you and I are the smart ones who know how to do it
right, unlike the masses who haven't learned what's right for them.
Suspension + big tires seems to me what people want. We both bikes
with both on the road.
>Suspension forks for road bikes and STI are much alike, in my view.
>They both fit that last paragraph perfectly.
If by road bikes you mean narrow-tire road bikes with suspension
forks, then yeah, that's a waste. Do they actually sell? I know
they've been "marketed." Will they actually be on the market for
long? Will they take over like STI did? Hmm. Why is one thing really
prevalent and the other not? Could it have something to do with real
function? Just a thought.
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************