BASE training with watts

[BullGod]

FTP is 350 ish.

Considering races don't start til march there is very little need for any intensity right now. Most of my teammates are doing longer rides on the little ring 2/3 times a week.

Due to work I am starting to work out in the evenings on the KK. Sanity demands that I can only realistically do 90 - 120 mins on the trainer in one session, so there is no way I'm doing only L2 work.

I want to at least feel some "burn" on the trainer, but on the other hand I don't want to go to intense, and move out of BASE.

For indoor workouts in November / December what % of FTP is sensible? I'm interested right now in raising the level at which I can "comfortably cycle" - I don't want to start honing FTP or VO2 max yet at all.

Was thinking around 250w (70% of FTP) at a high RPM - is this too high?

It's sort of a balance between effectiveness and boredom ;-)

feedback appreciated - next year will be my first year in the elites. I don't want to undertrain, but I don't want to burn all my candles by january either....

BG

 

[root]

I'm certainly not an expert, but L4 level work (i.e. 2x20s at 91% of FTP) are not terribly hard intervals (if you do them every other day with some L1-L3 in between).

I would not do L5, L6 work until much later, and these are harder and more taxing intervals (until say February). I can't imagine myself spending all winter doing only L2. The boredom would kill me.

 

[postal_bag]

FTP is 350 ish.

Considering races don't start til march there is very little need for any intensity right now. Most of my teammates are doing longer rides on the little ring 2/3 times a week.

Due to work I am starting to work out in the evenings on the KK. Sanity demands that I can only realistically do 90 - 120 mins on the trainer in one session, so there is no way I'm doing only L2 work.

I want to at least feel some "burn" on the trainer, but on the other hand I don't want to go to intense, and move out of BASE.

For indoor workouts in November / December what % of FTP is sensible? I'm interested right now in raising the level at which I can "comfortably cycle" - I don't want to start honing FTP or VO2 max yet at all.

Was thinking around 250w (70% of FTP) at a high RPM - is this too high?

It's sort of a balance between effectiveness and boredom ;-)

feedback appreciated - next year will be my first year in the elites. I don't want to undertrain, but I don't want to burn all my candles by january either....

BG

My choice would be more like 90 minutes @ ~300w, 120 minutes @ ~285w, 3 x 20' @ ~315w, etc., using a normal cadence.

 

[Spunout]

My choice would be more like 90 minutes @ ~300w, 120 minutes @ ~285w, 3 x 20' @ ~315w, etc., using a normal cadence.

Do some power, strength, and speed intervals all while keeping the ride in Z2 overall. See Van den Bosch's book, great power intervals with Sven Nys, etc.

All endurance rides have a speed component, beats the trainer blahs.

There was a good thread here on SST protocols from FasCat, very good article for making time on the trainer more productive. IMHO, get 1 long day per week, if not on the bike do a ski or cross train with 1 hour on the trainer to top it off for 'souplesse'.

 

[giannip]

do you have a link to the Van den Bosch book ?

Do some power, strength, and speed intervals all while keeping the ride in Z2 overall. See Van den Bosch's book, great power intervals with Sven Nys, etc.

All endurance rides have a speed component, beats the trainer blahs.

There was a good thread here on SST protocols from FasCat, very good article for making time on the trainer more productive. IMHO, get 1 long day per week, if not on the bike do a ski or cross train with 1 hour on the trainer to top it off for 'souplesse'.

 

[Spunout]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1841261769/ref=nosim/?tag=pricegrabber-books-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=1841261769&linkCode=asn

 

[BullGod]

My choice would be more like 90 minutes @ ~300w, 120 minutes @ ~285w, 3 x 20' @ ~315w, etc., using a normal cadence.

I would still feel that is too intense for November.....I spoke to a couple of seasoned elite riders and they are all telling me to ride long and easy. 300w for 90 minutes is pretty demanding any time of year. I'm not so sure about mixing that up with 5 hr weekend rides either.

I'm thinking more 20 minute intervals at 300w, with 20 mins at 240w in between.....low overall intensity with enough variety to make it interesting.

 

[giannip]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1841261769/ref=nosim/?tag=pricegrabber-books-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=1841261769&linkCode=asn

thanks

has anyone read this that could give a short review ?

 

[Spunout]

Good book, old-school somewhat. Shows the immense hours required to perform at high levels. Good concepts in active recovery.

 

[peterpen]

I would still feel that is too intense for November.....I spoke to a couple of seasoned elite riders and they are all telling me to ride long and easy. 300w for 90 minutes is pretty demanding any time of year. I'm not so sure about mixing that up with 5 hr weekend rides either.

I'm thinking more 20 minute intervals at 300w, with 20 mins at 240w in between.....low overall intensity with enough variety to make it interesting.

I'd agree with you. I'd add in some 3x 10m or 6x 5m @ 90 - 95%FTP once or twice per week and some sort of neuromuscular/ L7 effort on a weekly basis. Sprints on a trainer suck, but you could do a 10m On-Off effort. I started with 10m (10s >150%FTP + 50s@70%FTP) and moved the ratio up each week until it's 30s on/ 30s off.

 

[koger]

Here's how I am doing it this winter, maybe it can help

http://www.amazon.com/Base-Building...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195501219&sr=1-1
http://www.ultrafit.com/newsletter/november07.html#AA

 

[rmur17]

FTP is 350 ish.

Considering races don't start til march there is very little need for any intensity right now. Most of my teammates are doing longer rides on the little ring 2/3 times a week.

Due to work I am starting to work out in the evenings on the KK. Sanity demands that I can only realistically do 90 - 120 mins on the trainer in one session, so there is no way I'm doing only L2 work.

I want to at least feel some "burn" on the trainer, but on the other hand I don't want to go to intense, and move out of BASE.

For indoor workouts in November / December what % of FTP is sensible? I'm interested right now in raising the level at which I can "comfortably cycle" - I don't want to start honing FTP or VO2 max yet at all.

Was thinking around 250w (70% of FTP) at a high RPM - is this too high?

It's sort of a balance between effectiveness and boredom ;-)

feedback appreciated - next year will be my first year in the elites. I don't want to undertrain, but I don't want to burn all my candles by january either....

BG

i don't quite understand. You say you don't want to ride only (or predominantly?) L2 yet suggest you're thinking about workouts at 0.70FTP. That's still L2 ... and you could likely keep that up for several hours outdoors.

Why waste time on the trainer?

 

[postal_bag]

I would still feel that is too intense for November.....I spoke to a couple of seasoned elite riders and they are all telling me to ride long and easy. 300w for 90 minutes is pretty demanding any time of year. I'm not so sure about mixing that up with 5 hr weekend rides either.

I'm thinking more 20 minute intervals at 300w, with 20 mins at 240w in between.....low overall intensity with enough variety to make it interesting.

I was actually thinking 90 min at ~85% was taking it kind of easy. It leaves room to ramp up the either wattage or the duration.

You could start with 1 hr, and build up to 2 hrs. Last winter, I managed to work my way up to 3 hrs at this intensity. I also got my 90' power up to 95% FTP.

Or do the 20' intervals @ 85%, but do 4 or more of them, and spin for 2 - 5' at ~170 w in between. 3 x 30' is good, too.

You don't have enough time available to go "long and easy", and I don't think going short and easy (i.e. 2 hrs @ 70%) will do much to raise the level at which you can ride comfortably.

 

[BullGod]

I think that sounds sensible. I don't want to come out of winter underdone, but I still want to leave some room for improvement when I ramp up the intensity in february

I was actually thinking 90 min at ~85% was taking it kind of easy. It leaves room to ramp up the either wattage or the duration.

You could start with 1 hr, and build up to 2 hrs. Last winter, I managed to work my way up to 3 hrs at this intensity. I also got my 90' power up to 95% FTP.

Or do the 20' intervals @ 85%, but do 4 or more of them, and spin for 2 - 5' at ~170 w in between. 3 x 30' is good, too.

You don't have enough time available to go "long and easy", and I don't think going short and easy (i.e. 2 hrs @ 70%) will do much to raise the level at which you can ride comfortably.

 

[holli]

I was actually thinking 90 min at ~85% was taking it kind of easy. It leaves room to ramp up the either wattage or the duration.

You could start with 1 hr, and build up to 2 hrs. Last winter, I managed to work my way up to 3 hrs at this intensity. I also got my 90' power up to 95% FTP.

Or do the 20' intervals @ 85%, but do 4 or more of them, and spin for 2 - 5' at ~170 w in between. 3 x 30' is good, too.

You don't have enough time available to go "long and easy", and I don't think going short and easy (i.e. 2 hrs @ 70%) will do much to raise the level at which you can ride comfortably.

I've been doing pretty much this kind of training for the past couple of weeks. At the beginning of the winter this is said to be good training, but at least I will shift towards L4, threshold training after christmas/new year doing this training only once or at most twice a week.

BTW Last winter I would have given the same advice as the above mentioned seasoned elite riders did, but after reading some books and articles and listening to my club's coach, I've changed my views quite dramatically. I might not count as a seasoned elite rider though but I've followed LSD religion for 10 years now and decided that it's time to try something else.

 

[BullGod]

Last night I did 90 minutes at 70% (240-250) in 2 x 45 with 15 minutes at 150w in between (watching England lose to Croatia on the TV)

That felt about right for this time of year....especially as the weekend had 2 x 4.5hr rides....

If I can use that to build towards 90 minutes at 300w by end of december, and then in january start the dedicated 2 x 20's, and begin VO2 max I hope to be able to get the FTP up to 360 by March....then drop 2 kilos to 68kg ;-)

The last two years (the only two winters since i started cycling) I did intensity all year round....way too much, way too often - when I started the season I was knackered, and was already at my ceiling.

 

[postal_bag]

Last night I did 90 minutes at 70% (240-250) in 2 x 45 with 15 minutes at 150w in between (watching England lose to Croatia on the TV)

That felt about right for this time of year....especially as the weekend had 2 x 4.5hr rides....

If I can use that to build towards 90 minutes at 300w by end of december, and then in january start the dedicated 2 x 20's, and begin VO2 max I hope to be able to get the FTP up to 360 by March....then drop 2 kilos to 68kg ;-)

The last two years (the only two winters since i started cycling) I did intensity all year round....way too much, way too often - when I started the season I was knackered, and was already at my ceiling.

Yesterday was my "long" ride (I am riding indoors exclusivley at this point).
3 hrs in total at about 81% FTP, including warm-up, cool down and a minute or two recovery between each interval - I broke it into 5 x 30' at ~84% FTP

It was hard, but in a good way. I will try to build to 90% FTP for the on portions, but I plan on doing it really gradually this year.

I am using cadences ranging from 20 rpm below, to 15 rpm above my preferred cadence, even though cadence is a red herring . I find myself really enjoying grinding out 30' of high tempo or low L4 at 70 rpm.

I am also doing 3 x 20' @ ~91%. I find these workouts realy compliment each other, because the L3 feels easy compared to the LL4, and the LL4 feels short compared to the L3.