Basso's blood vaules

[whiteboytrash]

Yep by reading this he's definitely not doping...... huh ? How is anyone suppose to understand this ?

 

[Rolfrae]

Yep by reading this he's definitely not doping...... huh ? How is anyone suppose to understand this ?

Bamboozle us with science and hope we stop asking questions?

 

[Wayne666]

Yep by reading this he's definitely not doping...... huh ? How is anyone suppose to understand this ?

I don't know Italian but...

I don't see anything that looks like blood values. That is a graph of gas values during some sort of ramped test (although I'm unsure why there are so many data points, looks very unusual as if from multiple tests?). He goes "anaerobic" at 380 watts and only 5.5 watts/kg. Surely a long, long way from where he was when he was soft-pedaling to win the Giro.

Don't see any date associated with it?

 

[whiteboytrash]

Found some more and an explaination....​

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AN UNSCHEDULED VO2max TEST​

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Today Ivan scheduled a two-hours training in order to allow a Tv crew to film him for one of his interviews. The programme consisted of a Vo2max simulation test in our lab in the afternoon simply to show which test Ivan usually undertakes. The TV crew started to film the instruments’ calibration (following the proper protocol) while Ivan was simulating a warm-up. The warm-up has been interrupted only 5 minutes later (it normally lasts for 20 minutes) to film the test which had to be intentionally only a simulation.​

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After other 5 minutes, Ivan was asked if he felt to continue the test, completing a real test, in order to get better pictures. The test was completed even without a proper warm-up. Data of this absolutely ‘unscheduled’ test , undertaken after some days of recovery, are shown in this report .
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[Andrija]

There's no data about his blood (as I can see).
Some data on oxygen intake, HR and power output (in this specific training session or from representative sample of sessions).
It's more for his use... Some referent values on his current condition ( heart rates and oxygen intake on flats and on climbs if I see well). I would make this graph and measurement if I'd plan to train for specific goal (to see my current condition and to dose training). Also the other cyclists (and sportists) can compare their values with his.
Nothing for us... Blood - thirsty fans.
And, to point out, he can easily manipulate with these data.

 

[Sikhandar]

I confirm, these are only watts and HR and VO2 and VCO2 datas. Wanna a translation well on the first slide on the left it's written the HR intervals in which he could do his workouts such as (slow, medium, threshold - they differentiate between "in salita", that is climbing, or "in pianura" that is on flat land).

Then there is the SFR pace, that is the HR to keep when doing SFRs (strenght-resistance climbs... a training method developed in Italy afaIk)

 

[Flyer]

Found some more and an explaination....​

_____​

AN UNSCHEDULED VO2max TEST​

Today Ivan scheduled a two-hours training in order to allow a Tv crew to film him for one of his interviews. The programme consisted of a Vo2max simulation test in our lab in the afternoon simply to show which test Ivan usually undertakes. The TV crew started to film the instruments’ calibration (following the proper protocol) while Ivan was simulating a warm-up. The warm-up has been interrupted only 5 minutes later (it normally lasts for 20 minutes) to film the test which had to be intentionally only a simulation.​

​

After other 5 minutes, Ivan was asked if he felt to continue the test, completing a real test, in order to get better pictures. The test was completed even without a proper warm-up. Data of this absolutely ‘unscheduled’ test , undertaken after some days of recovery, are shown in this report .

​

​

rrrre

 

[azdroptop]

83.5mg/kg/min at 490 watts! Seems pretty damn fit to me.

 

[ilpirata]

Apparently when training this summer, in repeated climbs of 30 minute duration, Basso was powering at 427 watts, for 5.2 watts/kilogram. Estimates of the Bordone climb of the 2006 giro have him averaging 500 watts, for 50 minutes at 6.5 watts/ kilogram. So I think your assertion is valid, though he is in great shape undoubtably, he is something short of the "extraterrestrial". Can a rider win a grand tour without blood boosting? Or more importantly will we see a grand tour ever again where the top competitors are not boosting?

I don't know Italian but...

I don't see anything that looks like blood values. That is a graph of gas values during some sort of ramped test (although I'm unsure why there are so many data points, looks very unusual as if from multiple tests?). He goes "anaerobic" at 380 watts and only 5.5 watts/kg. Surely a long, long way from where he was when he was soft-pedaling to win the Giro.

Don't see any date associated with it?

 

[Andrija]

Basso published some blood values from four different measurements while he was still under suspension.
This still doesn't tell us much if he's juiced or not... I mean, he can achieve these values off and on the medical program.
Data are satisfying from 1998 point of view since he's under 50% hematocrit level and he's willing to show us that.
No data since the end of suspension.



P.S.
He was in top form before 2008 Giro

 

[limerickman]

Basso published some blood values from four different measurements while he was still under suspension.
This still doesn't tell us much if he's juiced or not... I mean, he can achieve these values off and on the medical program.
Data are satisfying from 1998 point of view since he's under 50% hematocrit level and he's willing to show us that.
No data since the end of suspension.



P.S.
He was in top form before 2008 Giro

Thanks for this info, And.

 

[Rolfrae]

Basso might be doing it but Armstrong's not going to. I mean, why publish anything that might make me look bad? Tell you what Armstrong, why not just ditch the testing altogether, give the money you are paying Caitlin to a real cancer charity, and then make up results that fit with your hero of the world persona?
Armstrong's anti-doping test results pending publication



Just days after Ivan Basso published his anti-doping test results online, Lance Armstrong said he will publish his own test results as promised, but he declined to provide details about what and when.

"I mean, what do you publish?" Armstrong asked according to the Associated Press. "[Do] you start publishing blood values? After the race, I saw online that Ivan Basso is publishing his blood values and if you notice you'll see he's 45, 44, 43, 41.

"For example, and I'm just hypothetically saying, you go to [a high] altitude for a month and all of a sudden it goes to 46. Not everyone in this room is going to say 'it went from 41 to 46, you must have cheated' but someone is going to say, a few of you guys and gals are going to say, 'that's not normal'."

Out of concern about misinterpretation, Armstrong is reluctant to publish readings that might be affected by sickness, dehydration or altitude; however, he said "I would rely a lot on what Don Catlin wants to publish but we'll definitely publish data and information." Prior to the Tour Down Under, Armstrong announced the start of a personalised and independent anti-doping testing program by Don Catlin.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Yes it all becoming a bit of charade isn't it. I think he is going to baffle everyone with ******** and to be honest and don’t think the average Lance lover would be able to determine anything from the blood readings. In saying that I like at Basso’s reading and I got no idea what they mean and I’m smart !

Basso might be doing it but Armstrong's not going to. I mean, why publish anything that might make me look bad? Tell you what Armstrong, why not just ditch the testing altogether, give the money you are paying Caitlin to a real cancer charity, and then make up results that fit with your hero of the world persona?
Armstrong's anti-doping test results pending publication



Just days after Ivan Basso published his anti-doping test results online, Lance Armstrong said he will publish his own test results as promised, but he declined to provide details about what and when.

"I mean, what do you publish?" Armstrong asked according to the Associated Press. "[Do] you start publishing blood values? After the race, I saw online that Ivan Basso is publishing his blood values and if you notice you'll see he's 45, 44, 43, 41.

"For example, and I'm just hypothetically saying, you go to [a high] altitude for a month and all of a sudden it goes to 46. Not everyone in this room is going to say 'it went from 41 to 46, you must have cheated' but someone is going to say, a few of you guys and gals are going to say, 'that's not normal'."

Out of concern about misinterpretation, Armstrong is reluctant to publish readings that might be affected by sickness, dehydration or altitude; however, he said "I would rely a lot on what Don Catlin wants to publish but we'll definitely publish data and information." Prior to the Tour Down Under, Armstrong announced the start of a personalised and independent anti-doping testing program by Don Catlin.

 

[Rolfrae]

Yes it all becoming a bit of charade isn't it. I think he is going to baffle everyone with ******** and to be honest and don’t think the average Lance lover would be able to determine anything from the blood readings. In saying that I like at Basso’s reading and I got no idea what they mean and I’m smart !

Indeed. Basso's blood values when he was at CSC, and most liekly doping, were heralded as examples of a clean rider (more rightly as examples of how to dope and not get caught by the docs).
Armstrong has basically just planted the seed in the media, mentioning altitude training as an excuse for why his HCT might spike in the future. My guess is that he will head somewhere for a spot of altitude training prior to his first serious race of the season. Just like all the teams did in the old days prior to Fuentes.

Cycling really is back to square one. We might just as well repeal all the doping laws and let them get on with it. I wonder how long the French will stay quiet (even if L'Equipe is no longer prepared to stoke the flames)? Are they going to sit back and watch Armstrong make another (the 8th) mockery of their race, and say nothing at all?

 

[Flyer]

Indeed. Basso's blood values when he was at CSC, and most liekly doping, were heralded as examples of a clean rider (more rightly as examples of how to dope and not get caught by the docs).
Armstrong has basically just planted the seed in the media, mentioning altitude training as an excuse for why his HCT might spike in the future. My guess is that he will head somewhere for a spot of altitude training prior to his first serious race of the season. Just like all the teams did in the old days prior to Fuentes.

Cycling really is back to square one. We might just as well repeal all the doping laws and let them get on with it. I wonder how long the French will stay quiet (even if L'Equipe is no longer prepared to stoke the flames)? Are they going to sit back and watch Armstrong make another (the 8th) mockery of their race, and say nothing at all?

If they get paid well, then YES

 

[Cobblestones]

Indeed. Basso's blood values when he was at CSC, and most liekly doping, were heralded as examples of a clean rider (more rightly as examples of how to dope and not get caught by the docs).
Armstrong has basically just planted the seed in the media, mentioning altitude training as an excuse for why his HCT might spike in the future. My guess is that he will head somewhere for a spot of altitude training prior to his first serious race of the season. Just like all the teams did in the old days prior to Fuentes.

Cycling really is back to square one. We might just as well repeal all the doping laws and let them get on with it. I wonder how long the French will stay quiet (even if L'Equipe is no longer prepared to stoke the flames)? Are they going to sit back and watch Armstrong make another (the 8th) mockery of their race, and say nothing at all?

It's 'rinse repeat', isn't it?

Festina scandal -> public outcry -> more doping
Fuentes scandal -> public outcry -> more doping

And of course all the 'small' scandals where 1-2 riders get caught. How many riders were caught during, say, the last ten years? Considering Pro Tour riders only: 50? 100? More?

Things haven't improved. It is hopeless. Spring last year, it looked for a short time as if there might have been an improvement. Then came the Giro and then came the TdF and cycling found itself in the same shithole as the years before. I'm sorry, but I don't see any hope for the sport at this point. (I'm still watching though occasionally).

 

[TheDarkLord]

Out of concern about misinterpretation, Armstrong is reluctant to publish readings that might be affected by sickness, dehydration or altitude; however, he said "I would rely a lot on what Don Catlin wants to publish but we'll definitely publish data and information." Prior to the Tour Down Under, Armstrong announced the start of a personalised and independent anti-doping testing program by Don Catlin.

Will he publish actual values or will they be doctored to make them look innocent?

 

[slovakguy]

since he dodged catlin for so long, my thinking is he has his blood doctored just enough to keep it from raising suspicion. now all he has to do is "maintain" that god given super human vo2 and increased blood flow to his lower body to keep his critics at bay.

 

[Flyer]

It's 'rinse repeat', isn't it?

Festina scandal -> public outcry -> more doping
Fuentes scandal -> public outcry -> more doping

And of course all the 'small' scandals where 1-2 riders get caught. How many riders were caught during, say, the last ten years? Considering Pro Tour riders only: 50? 100? More?

Things haven't improved. It is hopeless. Spring last year, it looked for a short time as if there might have been an improvement. Then came the Giro and then came the TdF and cycling found itself in the same shithole as the years before. I'm sorry, but I don't see any hope for the sport at this point. (I'm still watching though occasionally).

dds

 

[swampy1970]

Yep by reading this he's definitely not doping...... huh ? How is anyone suppose to understand this ?

If you'd have spent at least a 1/10th of the time you post rubbish on here on actually understanding what they're looking for in such analysis then you'd have no problem understanding what's being presented in the attached graph. But since when has having no knowledge about a given matter stopped people from complaining?

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