Basso's Meds Wrong?

[Flyer]

I have no idea what is going on with Ivan Basso or what chemistry may be flowing inside his veins either.

But he was strong Thursday--and suddenly the wheels came off. He really ought to abandon and get recovered quietly in time for the TDF--unless the doctors what to tweek his meds for the TT.

RE: Food Poisoning theories. BEWARE of the 1991 PDM EPO overdose and the 'cover stories' that were floated.

Back then, all of the powerhouse PDM team abandoned the TDF under the cover story of hotel food poisoning. Later, when a journalist pointed out that Miguel Indurain's Benesto Team ate from the same kitchen, the story was then modified to 'overheated liquid vitamin feeds' left in the car.

6 years later, it was publicly revealed by the then former director that a new team doctor had 'overdosed' the riders with EPO.

Maybe Basso suffered from bad reaction to a new drug, or perhaps got his 'mix' wrong.

It is a fair question given how 'medical' Greg Lemond claims our sport has become.

The Giro is special because; 1) Italy leads the world in blood doping specialist, 2) Italy leads the world in police raids, doping trials, and doping scandals.

The Giro has much to teach us.

 

[Dead Star]

Sorry to be extra paranoid, but i'm amazed by Parra over the weekend. How on earth did he recover from such a tortuous stage to once again be in the leading breakaway and go on to attack and win again?

 

[Catabolic_Jones]

Flyer, have you never suffered GI distress after a cycle of heavy training? Perhaps it's just that.

 

[MJtje]

Wasn't Breukink the only one who could go on.......I thought 2 riders weren't sick!? But it was no point in staying in the race for Breukink.

I have no idea what is going on with Ivan Basso or what chemistry may be flowing inside his veins either.

But he was strong Thursday--and suddenly the wheels came off. He really ought to abandon and get recovered quietly in time for the TDF--unless the doctors what to tweek his meds for the TT.

RE: Food Poisoning theories. BEWARE of the 1991 PDM EPO overdose and the 'cover stories' that were floated.

Back then, all of the powerhouse PDM team abandoned the TDF under the cover story of hotel food poisoning. Later, when a journalist pointed out that Miguel Indurain's Benesto Team ate from the same kitchen, the story was then modified to 'overheated liquid vitamin feeds' left in the car.

6 years later, it was publicly revealed by the then former director that a new team doctor had 'overdosed' the riders with EPO.

Maybe Basso suffered from bad reaction to a new drug, or perhaps got his 'mix' wrong.

It is a fair question given how 'medical' Greg Lemond claims our sport has become.

The Giro is special because; 1) Italy leads the world in blood doping specialist, 2) Italy leads the world in police raids, doping trials, and doping scandals.

The Giro has much to teach us.

 

[lumpy]

I have no idea what is going on with Ivan Basso or what chemistry may be flowing inside his veins either.

But he was strong Thursday--and suddenly the wheels came off. He really ought to abandon and get recovered quietly in time for the TDF--unless the doctors what to tweek his meds for the TT.

RE: Food Poisoning theories. BEWARE of the 1991 PDM EPO overdose and the 'cover stories' that were floated.

Back then, all of the powerhouse PDM team abandoned the TDF under the cover story of hotel food poisoning. Later, when a journalist pointed out that Miguel Indurain's Benesto Team ate from the same kitchen, the story was then modified to 'overheated liquid vitamin feeds' left in the car.

6 years later, it was publicly revealed by the then former director that a new team doctor had 'overdosed' the riders with EPO.

Maybe Basso suffered from bad reaction to a new drug, or perhaps got his 'mix' wrong.

It is a fair question given how 'medical' Greg Lemond claims our sport has become.

The Giro is special because; 1) Italy leads the world in blood doping specialist, 2) Italy leads the world in police raids, doping trials, and doping scandals.

The Giro has much to teach us.

That's one hell of an assumption that Basso is doping. He could have just had a bad day. If you're going to throw out the accusations, please back them up with documentation. Guilt by association doesn't cut it. You seem to be saying if a cyclist is Italian, then he is doping. Really?

 

[Flyer]

Not at all, the 'presumption' that a leader in a Grand Tour is NOT doping is the greater leap of fantacy..

The French have it correct when they write on the roads of the TDF; 'Tous Dope' They are all doped.

To every clear, I never believe 'food poisoning stories'. Seldom are they true.

Besides the 1991 PDM scandal, Tyler Hamilton also used that excuse for abandoning the Vuelta last year---only later did we discover his failed blood test and the he would have been publicly DQed if he had not resigned. Many others have wielded that excuse like a knife.

That is the kind of political cover top riders enjoy in the TDF and in the Vuelta.

The Giro is a very different animal. There, the Italian authorities seem to bully the promoter into compliance---exposing winning dopers such as:

Marco Pantani, Gilberti Simoni, Stephano Casagrande
and 88 others in the 2001 San Remo Hotel raids.

If Basso were 'just having a bad day' he should have abandoned and retooled immediately for the Tour de France---which is his next big goal. The Giro is not possible as a win. It is not possible to 'recover' from an illness during a stage race---not organically.

It appears his doctors what him to use the Giro as a training experiement.

So let's see if he recovers for the last time trial--in a spectacular way.

That's one hell of an assumption that Basso is doping. He could have just had a bad day. If you're going to throw out the accusations, please back them up with documentation. Guilt by association doesn't cut it. You seem to be saying if a cyclist is Italian, then he is doping. Really?

 

[Mansmind]

That's one hell of an assumption that Basso is doping. He could have just had a bad day. If you're going to throw out the accusations, please back them up with documentation. Guilt by association doesn't cut it. You seem to be saying if a cyclist is Italian, then he is doping. Really?

Flyer seems to think they're all doping (100%). From what I can tell, this is based upon the performance level being humanly impossible (his opinion). He'll cite others that have the same opinion. It's a long list, but a very small percentage of the total.

Also, he'll cite the cyclists that have died (his opinion in many cases, due to doping), the riders suspended for doping (fact). Again, I haven't run the numbers, but according to what I've seen posted, would reflect a very small percentage of total racers, especially since he goes back many years in his examples.

In short, he seems to extrapolate from approximately 1-2%? (of total) confirmed doping issues, that 100% of pro riders dope in some way.

Of course Flyer is entitled to his opinions, and to some extent may be correct, but the 100% figure, in my opinion, is ridiculous.

Regardless, you can understand why he "assumes" doping is the problem with Basso, since in his mind there is no possiblity that Basso ISN'T doping. At least he's consistent.

You're correct however, he repeatedly mentions Lance (as an example) of someone who dopes (as fact). That's never been verified, so the fact is Flyer, nor anyone else besides Lance himself, KNOWS.

His argument here is that they're using PED's that can't be detected. My question has always been...if they can't be detected, how do you know they exist? Better yet, how do you know someone, or anyone, is actually using them?

Another thought, he will also cite all the people that, after having been caught doping, then go on to tell on everyone else (making his opinions true). In my opinion, it's just as reasonable to assume they're now lying in order to make everyone look the same (themselves better)...i.e. "Everyone does it, so I'm no different".

 

[Flyer]

Mansmind, please be careful with your extrapolations.

I never use 1-2% to make a point.

How about 100% of the 1998 Festina Team. The 1991 PDM Team at (100%) with the big names.

How about David Millar's initial comment in February 2004 that Philippe Gaumont was a 'nutter' and 'nobody ought to belive his claims', that Gaumont and the airport busts were 'isolated cases'.

Later we learn that most (greater than 50%) were implicated in doping. The director was sacked, Millar was busted just before the TDF--otherwise you might have seen him battle Lance Armstrong in a TT.

Robert Sassone admitted, only the 'rock' Cedric Vasseur clung on to his phony denails. See Vasseur in this years Giro Tour as he prepares for yet another TDF.

Testing and doping controls have NEVER lead to discovery of widespread doping.

In the USA, it was a disgruntled ex-coach, a THG designer steroid, a zealous UCLA Lab Director Donald Kaitlin and the US Treasury (IRS) that exposed 27 elite athletes as users of: THG, insulin, EPO, hGH, clomid, testosterone cream & pill form, and stimulants. The world fastest man & women exposed as liars, cheaters and dopers. The NFL, MLB and many, many running track elites.

In Europe it was customs officers busting Raimundas Rumsas's wife, the police napping Museeuw and his veterinary neighbor, customs catching Festina, the NAS catching Simoni & Julrich and 86 others in the 2001 giro. Again the NAS catching Rebellin and most of Team Liquigas Team (2001).

In Australia it was an 'overzealous housekeeper' that called police re: the discovery of, dozens of spent syringes, Testicomp & equine Growth Hormones in Mark French's dorm room.

If you wnat the truth about doping, ask housekeeping and the garbage collection services. They deal with hundred of medcial waste picking up after these drug addicted athletes.

When you consider that few dopers are actually caught---the actual doping abuse is far greater than you imagine. If you use 100% and you will never again be disappointed by your favorite rider.

If you want doping compliance, just hire more police and garbage disposal experts. The trash is in many bins along the route following a grand tour.

Flyer seems to think they're all doping (100%). From what I can tell, this is based upon the performance level being humanly impossible (his opinion). He'll cite others that have the same opinion. It's a long list, but a very small percentage of the total.

Also, he'll cite the cyclists that have died (his opinion in many cases, due to doping), the riders suspended for doping (fact). Again, I haven't run the numbers, but according to what I've seen posted, would reflect a very small percentage of total racers, especially since he goes back many years in his examples.

In short, he seems to extrapolate from approximately 1-2%? (of total) confirmed doping issues, that 100% of pro riders dope in some way.

Of course Flyer is entitled to his opinions, and to some extent may be correct, but the 100% figure, in my opinion, is ridiculous.

Regardless, you can understand why he "assumes" doping is the problem with Basso, since in his mind there is no possiblity that Basso ISN'T doping. At least he's consistent.

You're correct however, he repeatedly mentions Lance (as an example) of someone who dopes (as fact). That's never been verified, so the fact is Flyer, nor anyone else besides Lance himself, KNOWS.

His argument here is that they're using PED's that can't be detected. My question has always been...if they can't be detected, how do you know they exist? Better yet, how do you know someone, or anyone, is actually using them?

Another thought, he will also cite all the people that, after having been caught doping, then go on to tell on everyone else (making his opinions true). In my opinion, it's just as reasonable to assume they're now lying in order to make everyone look the same (themselves better)...i.e. "Everyone does it, so I'm no different".

 

[Mansmind]

When you consider that few dopers are actually caught---the actual doping abuse is far greater than you imagine. If you use 100% and you will never again be disappointed by your favorite rider.

I don't doubt that it is much larger than the numbers actually caught, that's common sense. I just don't agree with assuming 100%, that's also common sense, and as with most things in life almost never true.

As far as the 1-2%, that's the reason I put a question mark behind it, I don't know how accurate that number is. I'm not going to count, but if you added up all the confirmed "caught" people and all the people that have otherwise admitted it (in cycling) what's the total YOU have pointed at? 200-300 people max?

I don't know how many current riders are in the pro ranks, but I suspect it's at least 2000? Your time periods (over all your posts) seem to go back at least 10 years if not more. Assuming a 10% turnover every year, you have another 2000 riders over that time period. That's 4000 riders, or 5-7%. These numbers are only estimates however. I haven't actually counted the number of people you've mentioned, nor how many riders are in the ranks. I believe the point would hold true however, it's a small percentage of the total.

John

 

[House]

mansmind-you make some great points but Flyer and his minions will cling to their small amount of facts, lies(i.e. "100% of Festina doping" and "100% DI football players using roids) and half-truths(the numerous times he leaves out parts of the story that don't fit his side) and believe nothing else even if their is definitive proof (like Pantani's autopsy showing EPO had nothing to do with his death). They desperately want cycling to be 100% dirty. Why? I have some ideas but your guess is as good as mine. If God came down and told them they were wrong they would try to argue.

 

[Flyer]

Glad you agree more than 1% of elite athletes use drugs routinely to train, recover and race.

Try 900+ caught by doping controllers--whom typically never catch 0.000000001% over 30 years.

And direct testimony of our top champions telling you that doping is a standard parctice.

To doubt me, first you must discredit Eddie Merckx, Fausto Coppi, Francesco Moser, Alex Zulle, Richard Virenque, Jacques Anquetil, David Millar/Cofidis, Marco Pantani's twisted story, Tyler Hamilton & Santiago Perez and their victimizations, Mark French and his elite AIS Junior Team---lead by the Seniors----.

Then you have Lance Armstrong's doctor and his outrageous public remarks which got him sacked back in 1995 by Gweiss Boys.

Funny Lance glued up to him shortly afterward?

I suppose Lance enjoys Orange Juice as much as EPO? Stephen Swartz thinks so.

And 40+ deaths in ten years.

And bi-polar disorders, suicides

And plenty of cancer too. Lance ain't alone.

These 'so-called' side affects to steroid use are really 'direct effects'.

Massive and persistent supplementations of hGH, Nandrolone, Testosterone, Clomid, corticosteroids and amphetamines will degrade long-term health.

And you plenty of evidence of these problems all around us, in most sports.

I understand the sposnors, advertisers, directors, promoters and riders all deny it. They are paid do deny it. The debate is not with then, it is the fans that do not grasp the truth.

It is amazing that anyone even remotely believes this 'doping compliance' nonsense.

We have triathletes using Nandrolone & EPO, we know World Champion Cyclists dope (Merckx, Zulle, Camenzind, Museeuw, Millar, Anquetil, French, Sassone) as well as lowly domestiques dope;
Neil Stephens, Luca De Angeli & Filippo Simeoni.

All levels, all sports.

How much confirmation do you require?

More deaths, more scandals, more police raids or overzealous housekeepers to convince you?

I don't doubt that it is much larger than the numbers actually caught, that's common sense. I just don't agree with assuming 100%, that's also common sense, and as with most things in life almost never true.

As far as the 1-2%, that's the reason I put a question mark behind it, I don't know how accurate that number is. I'm not going to count, but if you added up all the confirmed "caught" people and all the people that have otherwise admitted it (in cycling) what's the total YOU have pointed at? 200-300 people max?

I don't know how many current riders are in the pro ranks, but I suspect it's at least 2000? Your time periods (over all your posts) seem to go back at least 10 years if not more. Assuming a 10% turnover every year, you have another 2000 riders over that time period. That's 4000 riders, or 5-7%. These numbers are only estimates however. I haven't actually counted the number of people you've mentioned, nor how many riders are in the ranks. I believe the point would hold true however, it's a small percentage of the total.

John

 

[MJtje]

Pfff he doesn't doubt that there is doping, nor do I......he doubts your figures. Certainly not 100%!!!

Glad you agree more than 1% of elite athletes use drugs routinely to train, recover and race.

Try 900+ caught by doping controllers--whom typically never catch 0.000000001% over 30 years.

And direct testimony of our top champions telling you that doping is a standard parctice.

To doubt me, first you must discredit Eddie Merckx, Fausto Coppi, Francesco Moser, Alex Zulle, Richard Virenque, Jacques Anquetil, David Millar/Cofidis, Marco Pantani's twisted story, Tyler Hamilton & Santiago Perez and their victimizations, Mark French and his elite AIS Junior Team---lead by the Seniors----.

Then you have Lance Armstrong's doctor and his outrageous public remarks which got him sacked back in 1995 by Gweiss Boys.

Funny Lance glued up to him shortly afterward?

I suppose Lance enjoys Orange Juice as much as EPO? Stephen Swartz thinks so.

And 40+ deaths in ten years.

And bi-polar disorders, suicides

And plenty of cancer too. Lance ain't alone.

These 'so-called' side affects to steroid use are really 'direct effects'.

Massive and persistent supplementations of hGH, Nandrolone, Testosterone, Clomid, corticosteroids and amphetamines will degrade long-term health.

And you plenty of evidence of these problems all around us, in most sports.

I understand the sposnors, advertisers, directors, promoters and riders all deny it. They are paid do deny it. The debate is not with then, it is the fans that do not grasp the truth.

It is amazing that anyone even remotely believes this 'doping compliance' nonsense.

We have triathletes using Nandrolone & EPO, we know World Champion Cyclists dope (Merckx, Zulle, Camenzind, Museeuw, Millar, Anquetil, French, Sassone) as well as lowly domestiques dope;
Neil Stephens, Luca De Angeli & Filippo Simeoni.

All levels, all sports.

How much confirmation do you require?

More deaths, more scandals, more police raids or overzealous housekeepers to convince you?

 

[Flyer]

1991 PDM EPO overdosing (half or whole truth?)

1998 TVM/Festina bust (half or whole truths?)

1998 TDF Victory by Marco Pantani (was he clean?)

1999 Giro Victory by Marco Pantani (DQed too high hematocrit) a jealous lie?

2000 discovery of Insulin and Actovegan in the USPO medcial waste bags. Lie? Why did Lance and Mark Gorski confirm such a lie in December 2000? Why did Lance threaten to boycott the 2001 TDF and move to Spain? Truth or untruth?

October, 2004 Why did Lance's doctor (Performance Specialist) get convicted of malpractice? True or no?

Why is Lance's world crashing down into 6+ lawsuits and two criminal investigations? No, yes, maybe?

While there may be lots of jealous rumors, there remain plenty of objective and incriminating facts!

The truth hurts. Tous Dope!

mansmind-you make some great points but Flyer and his minions will cling to their small amount of facts, lies(i.e. "100% of Festina doping" and "100% DI football players using roids) and half-truths(the numerous times he leaves out parts of the story that don't fit his side) and believe nothing else even if their is definitive proof (like Pantani's autopsy showing EPO had nothing to do with his death). They desperately want cycling to be 100% dirty. Why? I have some ideas but your guess is as good as mine. If God came down and told them they were wrong they would try to argue.

 

[Flyer]

How about 99%. I'll give you a credit equal to the very few U-23 riders who were recruited 'outside' the normal channels. However, they too will doped within 90 days are less--else they're sacked.

Ciao!

Pfff he doesn't doubt that there is doping, nor do I......he doubts your figures. Certainly not 100%!!!

 

[House]

I desperately crave attention, please give it to me, I will list a few facts along with lies, half-truths and personal opinions that i will count as facts as proof of what I say! I will never accept a challenge because I am a coward who desperately needs attention!

Well put, the first intelligent thing you have ever said. LOL

 

[MJtje]

Haha.....that is funny. The thruth does hurt

Well put, the firt intelligent thing you have ever said. LOL

 

[Flyer]

Yes the 'truth hurts' but jealous lies are a validation that I have convinced you of your follies.

I am intelligent although I have 'understated the doping and fraud', it is actually much worse.

Well put, the first intelligent thing you have ever said. LOL

 

[Mansmind]

Glad you agree more than 1% of elite athletes use drugs routinely to train, recover and race.

I never agreed, I only agreed that the percentage would be more than the percentage actually caught. I have no idea what the actual percentage is, nor does anyone else. I do feel extremely comfortable in saying it's not 99-100%. We're dealing with humans here, how often can you get that large a group of humans to agree on ANYTHING??? Much less something that's harmful to them, or causes death as you imply. For the record, I DO agree that it's higher than 1%, probably even greater than 10% but 50% or more? That's where I start doubthing your theory.

To doubt me, first you must discredit Eddie Merckx, Fausto Coppi, Francesco Moser, Alex Zulle, Richard Virenque, Jacques Anquetil, David Millar/Cofidis, Marco Pantani's twisted story, Tyler Hamilton & Santiago Perez and their victimizations, Mark French and his elite AIS Junior Team---lead by the Seniors----.

You're spot on, I doubt them. I doubt the intentions and motivations behind their supposed "revelations". They're as likely to lie about everyone else as they were about themselves. When found out for what they were (according to your posts), I'm sure there was some desire to discredit everyone else also. You bet I doubt them, just like you doubt Lance when he tells you he's not doping. Same thing.

I suppose Lance enjoys Orange Juice as much as EPO? Stephen Swartz thinks so.

I have no specific knowledge of him enjoying either item, so how would I know. Evan Swartz only "thinks" so.

These 'so-called' side affects to steroid use are really 'direct effects'.

Shooting yourself in the head with a gun, has a direct effect, you bleed and likely die. I've known people that used steriods, and they don't have cancer, etc. (imagine that, I use to weight train with people that used, yet I never have). Getting back to the point, you don't know what caused any of those illnesses, could have been drugs as you say, could have been something else.

And you plenty of evidence of these problems all around us, in most sports.

I agree completely.

How much confirmation do you require?

None, I'm convinced doping exists.


As I've stated before to you Flyer, I don't doubt your facts, what I doubt are the conclusions you draw from them. Also as I've stated before, when you draw those conclusions you should indicate that it's you opinion, not that it's fact. YOU may believe it's fact, as well you should since it's your conclusions. The truth is however, that whether something is fact or not doesn't get to be decided by you specifically, or the rest of us for that matter.

In my opinion, it's absolutely ludicrous to assume that 99-100% of all riders are doping. I've competed against people using drugs for various things, and I assure you I didn't need drugs to compete with them.

The way you arrive at your conclusions is analogous to never buying a red car again, because the first one you bought was a lemon. It just isn't logical.

You're favorite whipping boy, Lance, has never been caught if indeed he's doping. You have indicated that's due to the things he's using being ahead of the curve (not detectable). If you're going to use that logic, then I suppose I'm doping also...because you wouldn't detect anything in me either. As I've stated before, you're entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. You're also entitled to express your opinion, and I respect that. What I find very difficult to respect is that you express your opinion as fact....and fact it's not. If he ever gets caught, fine, that means you're one hell of an (investigator?) or have great intuition, whatever. In the meantime, it's opinion and nothing else.

John

 

[Flyer]

If I understand your position then, it is you policy to never believe a 'whistleblower' even if he were a 5-time Tour de France Champion such as Merckx & Anquetil were? You believe advertisers but not whistleblowers?

If this is so, then you have few doping worries, the truth can be easily denied and witnessses easily discredited in your fancy world.


Lance Armstrong has been caught up with doping on at least four separate ocasions, five if Michele Ferrari's guilty verdict applies to his best customer.

1) Lance's junior teammates all were injecting steroids and corticosteroids in 1990 & 1991. Four of the 'A' team admit it. Strock, Kaiter, Francis, Latta.

Three of this group got sick, Lance, Greg & Erich. Only Lance recovered to race bikes.

A lawsuit is still being battled and Chris Carmichael has conspicuously been released from it, leaving Rene Wenzel & USA Cycling as defendents.

Strock is barred from using 'Chris Carmichael's' name. Sounds like a private cash settlement eh? Carmichael & Wenzel were the Junior coaches.

2) Before Lance became a TDF winner, but immediately post Festina, Lance went positive for a corticosteroid after the prologue TT. He retro-actively TUEed his way around that.

3) In July 2000, Frech TV-3 discovered Actovegin and insulin disposed by USPO staff in a small town dumpster in the Maritime Alps. They video taped it.

Lance denied it. Then suddenly in December admitted to it and this was confirmed by Tailwinds boss Mark Gorski. He then threatened a boycott and refused to discuss it further. Instead moved from Nice to Girona and away from French Police.

4) Emma O'Reilly (the heart and soul of USPO) claims she fitched drugs for Armstrong in Spain and delivered them to him in the Netherlands. She claimed he needed EPO---just like the other guys.

5) Lance's 10 year relationship with Michele Ferrari was sidelined by the good doctor's doping conviction of malpractice. Advising performance hormones for professional cyclists.

And insofar as 'direct effects' go in cellular biology, when you flood your blood stream with synthetic homones, you help one area whist damaging another.

The athletes do it willingly in order to get paid and to suffer through the madness of pro-sport.

Hell even Roman Gladiators were juiced for the same reasons as todays athletes are.

I never agreed, I only agreed that the percentage would be more than the percentage actually caught. I have no idea what the actual percentage is, nor does anyone else. I do feel extremely comfortable in saying it's not 99-100%. We're dealing with humans here, how often can you get that large a group of humans to agree on ANYTHING??? Much less something that's harmful to them, or causes death as you imply. For the record, I DO agree that it's higher than 1%, probably even greater than 10% but 50% or more? That's where I start doubthing your theory.


You're spot on, I doubt them. I doubt the intentions and motivations behind their supposed "revelations". They're as likely to lie about everyone else as they were about themselves. When found out for what they were (according to your posts), I'm sure there was some desire to discredit everyone else also. You bet I doubt them, just like you doubt Lance when he tells you he's not doping. Same thing.


I have no specific knowledge of him enjoying either item, so how would I know. Evan Swartz only "thinks" so.


Shooting yourself in the head with a gun, has a direct effect, you bleed and likely die. I've known people that used steriods, and they don't have cancer, etc. (imagine that, I use to weight train with people that used, yet I never have). Getting back to the point, you don't know what caused any of those illnesses, could have been drugs as you say, could have been something else.


I agree completely.


None, I'm convinced doping exists.


As I've stated before to you Flyer, I don't doubt your facts, what I doubt are the conclusions you draw from them. Also as I've stated before, when you draw those conclusions you should indicate that it's you opinion, not that it's fact. YOU may believe it's fact, as well you should since it's your conclusions. The truth is however, that whether something is fact or not doesn't get to be decided by you specifically, or the rest of us for that matter.

In my opinion, it's absolutely ludicrous to assume that 99-100% of all riders are doping. I've competed against people using drugs for various things, and I assure you I didn't need drugs to compete with them.

The way you arrive at your conclusions is analogous to never buying a red car again, because the first one you bought was a lemon. It just isn't logical.

You're favorite whipping boy, Lance, has never been caught if indeed he's doping. You have indicated that's due to the things he's using being ahead of the curve (not detectable). If you're going to use that logic, then I suppose I'm doping also...because you wouldn't detect anything in me either. As I've stated before, you're entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. You're also entitled to express your opinion, and I respect that. What I find very difficult to respect is that you express your opinion as fact....and fact it's not. If he ever gets caught, fine, that means you're one hell of an (investigator?) or have great intuition, whatever. In the meantime, it's opinion and nothing else.

John

 

[House]

If I understand your position then, it is you policy to never believe a 'whistleblower' even if he were a 5-time Tour de France Champion such as Merckx & Anquetil were? You believe advertisers but not whistleblowers?

And yet you refuse to believe a six-time winner.

Can you say contradiction?

Of course in your little fantasy land you have no idea what that means.