BBC breakfast: cycling to school

[John B]

David Hansen wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:28:38 +0100 someone who may be John B
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
> >No amount of money going into cycle training or cycle promotion is going to
> >change those hardened ingrained selfish attitudes.
>
> The way of dealing with such attitudes is slowly, by example.

Unfortunately it will be too slow and I fear child cyclists may be forced off
the roads before attitudes change :-(
We are already seeing examples of age limits being set for cycling on the road.
Many parents around here have told me that it is "illegal for children under 10
to ride on the road".
Why? Because the LA keeps pushing out propaganda 'implying' the case.

> >If schools can 'ban' children cycling to school, they can equally 'ban' them
> >being by delivered by car.
>
> Nearly all teachers are serial motorists. They would whine loudly at
> such an "infringement" of "rights".

John B

 

[Tom Crispin]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:06:00 +0100, John B <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Unfortunately it will be too slow and I fear child cyclists may be forced off
>the roads before attitudes change :-(
>We are already seeing examples of age limits being set for cycling on the road.
>Many parents around here have told me that it is "illegal for children under 10
>to ride on the road".
>Why? Because the LA keeps pushing out propaganda 'implying' the case.

TfL cite children cycling on the pavement as a danger. Mind you, they
cite not wearing a helmet as a danger too.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/streets/jrso/pdfs/spot.pdf

 

[Adam Lea]

"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wafflycat wrote on 26/06/2006 07:33 +0100:
>>
>> Article - to be repeated - about encouraging cycling to school. eed for
>> cycle training to get the skills to cycle on road.
>>
>
> A quick read of the comments on the BBC Breakfast piece this morning shows
> just how far we have to go to make any impact.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast/3342693.stm#cycle
>
> Sigh :-(
>
>
> --
> Tony


The BBC have your say shows more spectacular examples of public
ignorance/petrolhead nonsense:

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=2294&start=0&&&edition=1&ttl=20060626184237
>
> "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
> his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
> - Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Mark Thompson]

> son who cycles 13-miles each
> way to school... according to the newsreaders, said son will be ready
> for the Tour de France.

So that's equivalent to walking what, 2.5 to 3 miles?[1] Time to move
further away from his school methinks. He'll thank you for it when he's
winning golds and cuddling up to that Victoria Pendleton.



(assuming cycling is 4 to 5 times-ish more efficient)

 

[wafflycat]

"Mark Thompson"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...

>
> So that's equivalent to walking what, 2.5 to 3 miles?[1] Time to move
> further away from his school methinks. He'll thank you for it when he's
> winning golds and cuddling up to that Victoria Pendleton.

Actually.. last time he was watching some track, it was one of the Russian
girls that caught his..err... interest ;-)

Cheers, helen s

 

[triddletree]

> Actually.. last time he was watching some track, it was one of the
> Russian girls that caught his..err... interest ;-)

I hope he has ...umm ...errr ...a girlfriend ;-)

tt

 

[Mark Thompson]

> Actually.. last time he was watching some track, it was one of the
> Russian girls that caught his..err... interest ;-)

Super. I was worried that getting into girls would lead him away from
cycling, but should've realised that beautiful women with fit, athletic
bodies draped in lycra would get him even further into the sport....

Now, tell us more about this Russian then...

 

[Judith]

On 26 Jun 2006 05:37:07 -0700, "David Martin"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Time to email the vulcan, and the greeny/bluey/bikey bloke and suggest
>a manifesto commitment that all schools would provide secure cycle
>parking for children over 8 and every child should have access to
>training under the national standards curriculum.

Surely each child should cycle to school and have their books (and dry
clothes) carried in a dual-fuel Lexus behind them. Or am I getting my
policies mixed up?

Judith

 

[wafflycat]

"Mark Thompson"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>> Actually.. last time he was watching some track, it was one of the
>> Russian girls that caught his..err... interest ;-)
>
> Super. I was worried that getting into girls would lead him away from
> cycling, but should've realised that beautiful women with fit, athletic
> bodies draped in lycra would get him even further into the sport....
>
> Now, tell us more about this Russian then...

Can't remember the name of her. Indeed, it's entirely possible her face was
not visible, but there would be many a shot of her Lycra-clad rear zooming
round the track... ;-)

Cheers, helen s

 

[Tom Anderson]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Mark Thompson wrote:

> cuddling up to that Victoria Pendleton.

Who she?

[searches Google]

[searches Google Images]

Ah, it seems i have a new fantasy object.

Really, she's got it all - she does glamorous:

http://photos.imageevent.com/dernysportuk/websitepics/small/vicky pendleton.jpg

.... and nerdy:

http://www.womenscycling.net/jpegs/2005/MastersTrack/Day4/IMG_1709.jpg

.... *and* having phenomenal legs:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races05/track/pendleton.jpg

There aren't many women like that, i can tell you, and even fewer who
don't yet have court orders against me.

tom

--
Why did one straw break the camel's back? Here's the secret: the million
other straws underneath it - it's all mathematics. -- Mos Def

 

[Paul Weaver]

John B wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>
> > wafflycat wrote on 26/06/2006 07:33 +0100:
> > >
> > > Article - to be repeated - about encouraging cycling to school. eed for
> > > cycle training to get the skills to cycle on road.
> > >
> >
> > A quick read of the comments on the BBC Breakfast piece this morning
> > shows just how far we have to go to make any impact.
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast/3342693.stm#cycle
>
> There is only one positive comment amongst that lot.

I loved this one
"Today it is pouring with rain. My 12 year old son would have to cycle
2.5 miles to school, and arrive soaking wet. There is nowhere secure to
leave his wet clothes, and he will have to carry them with him all day
to each class. His back pack contains his books for the day and his PE
kit. It weighs 30lbs. Two wheels bad 4 wheels good today, and we are
just leaving by car, which unfortunately happens to be a 4x4"

Their car just "happens" to be a 4x4. They didn't buy it, they woke up
one morning and their Kia had turned into a death wagon.

2.5 miles, poor lamb. I used to *walk* that far to school. In the snow.
Uphill. Both ways.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Paul Weaver wrote:

> 2.5 miles, poor lamb. I used to *walk* that far to school. In the snow.
> Uphill. Both ways.

<python>
*I* used to crawl 50 miles to school across tracks we' nails in 'em, an'
my bag weighed 500 lbs!
</python> ;-)

I was fortunate enough to live just around the corner, but before we
moved house my older brother cycled about 2.5 miles, come rain or shine,
and managed to take his books and PE kit with him too. If it was
raining he'd use a waterproof cycle cape. Unfortunately we are receding
into the Dark Ages and are no longer capable of manufacturing waterproof
clothing, so in that light I guess it's okay to use the car...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Andy Leighton]

On 27 Jun 2006 01:39:34 -0700, Paul Weaver <[email protected]> wrote:
> John B wrote:
>> Tony Raven wrote:
>>
>> > wafflycat wrote on 26/06/2006 07:33 +0100:
>> > >
>> > > Article - to be repeated - about encouraging cycling to school. eed for
>> > > cycle training to get the skills to cycle on road.
>> > >
>> >
>> > A quick read of the comments on the BBC Breakfast piece this morning
>> > shows just how far we have to go to make any impact.
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast/3342693.stm#cycle
>>
>> There is only one positive comment amongst that lot.
>
> I loved this one
> "Today it is pouring with rain. My 12 year old son would have to cycle
> 2.5 miles to school, and arrive soaking wet. There is nowhere secure to
> leave his wet clothes, and he will have to carry them with him all day
> to each class. His back pack contains his books for the day and his PE
> kit. It weighs 30lbs. Two wheels bad 4 wheels good today, and we are
> just leaving by car, which unfortunately happens to be a 4x4"
>
> Their car just "happens" to be a 4x4. They didn't buy it, they woke up
> one morning and their Kia had turned into a death wagon.

Ignoring the 4x4 issue - it appears that there are a few common issues.

The weight of backpack. When I was at school we never carried anywhere
near that weight (in fact I have only ever carried that kind of weight
when going on an overnight backpack) - what has changed between then and
now? Can things be changed so that children have to carry less weight?
This is a general issue not just related to cycling.

Nowhere secure to leave his wet clothes? What do they do with their big
winter coats, hats, scarves and gloves? Do they carry them around all day?
As far as I can see the only wet clothes he will have is a coat (which he
will have anyway) and maybe some waterproof over-trousers (if well
organised). The child will probably already be used to carrying around
wet clothes anyway. We played rugby and hockey (football wasn't played at
our school) and went on cross-country runs when it was pouring down. The
kit ended up wet and muddy.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[dkahn400]

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Mark Thompson wrote:
>
> > cuddling up to that Victoria Pendleton.
>
> Who she?
>
> [searches Google]
>
> [searches Google Images]
>
> Ah, it seems i have a new fantasy object.
>
> Really, she's got it all - she does glamorous:
>
> http://photos.imageevent.com/dernysportuk/websitepics/small/vicky pendleton.jpg
>
> ... and nerdy:
>
> http://www.womenscycling.net/jpegs/2005/MastersTrack/Day4/IMG_1709.jpg
>
> ... *and* having phenomenal legs:
>
> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/races05/track/pendleton.jpg

Sue: Where's Daddy? Is he watching the cycling ?

Eleanor (13): Yes, he fancies Victoria Pendleton.

--
Dave...

 

[Peter Clinch]

Andy Leighton wrote:

> The weight of backpack. When I was at school we never carried anywhere
> near that weight (in fact I have only ever carried that kind of weight
> when going on an overnight backpack) - what has changed between then and
> now?

I suspect an inability to estimate weight might be an issue. 30 lbs is
pretty heavy. It's about the same as I carried for a week's ski touring
in Norway using a serious rucksack.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Mark Thompson]

> The weight of backpack. When I was at school we never carried
> anywhere near that weight (in fact I have only ever carried that kind
> of weight when going on an overnight backpack) - what has changed
> between then and now? Can things be changed so that children have to
> carry less weight? This is a general issue not just related to
> cycling.

More and bigger text books, more homework so they have to be carried to and
from school.

> Nowhere secure to leave his wet clothes? What do they do with their
> big winter coats, hats, scarves and gloves? Do they carry them around
> all day?

Yep, unless they scrunch up in their locker. Some schools do have
cloakrooms thobut.

> As far as I can see the only wet clothes he will have is a
> coat (which he will have anyway) and maybe some waterproof
> over-trousers (if well organised).

Yep. Basically the parents generation are a load of soft pansies, and are
giving their affliction to your kids.

 

[Mark Thompson]

> Yep. Basically the parents generation are a load of soft pansies, and
> are giving their affliction to your kids.

s/your/their

 

[John B]

Andy Leighton wrote:The weight of backpack. When I was at school we never
carried anywhere

> near that weight (in fact I have only ever carried that kind of weight
> when going on an overnight backpack) - what has changed between then and
> now?

I think it is a move away from pupils having their 'own' desk at school where
they could store all their books. The result is they are forced to carry all
their books around with them. Some schools provide lockers, but not all, and
sometimes they are limited in supply.

>
> Nowhere secure to leave his wet clothes? What do they do with their big
> winter coats, hats, scarves and gloves? Do they carry them around all day?
> As far as I can see the only wet clothes he will have is a coat (which he
> will have anyway) and maybe some waterproof over-trousers (if well
> organised).

Its pathetic isn't it. The world id full of excuses as to why something can't be
done.

I once took the issue up of 'banned' cycling at a local school. Having got them
to admit they coudn't enforce such a ruling, they then came back and said there
was nowhere to store the bikes. i took great pleasure in showing them they
actually had a bike shed.
But that wasn't good enough either.
They then argued they would need to insist on the pupils wearing helmets and they
had no secure storage for them.

It made me want to scream.

John B

 

[Peter Clinch]

John B wrote:

> I think it is a move away from pupils having their 'own' desk at school where
> they could store all their books. The result is they are forced to carry all
> their books around with them. Some schools provide lockers, but not all, and
> sometimes they are limited in supply.

I never had such a thing once I was in secondary school. I did have a
small locker, but I never used it much as it meant lots of faffing going
to and fro, so I just carried my books with me. Unless things have
changed a lot, school texts are not the size of the Britannica print
version. It can be done.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[dkahn400]

Tony Raven wrote:
> wafflycat wrote on 26/06/2006 14:07 +0100:
> >
> > I've actually weighed my son's bag that he has bungeed to the rear rack
> > of his bike. The normal daily weight of bag and contents is over 20lbs.
> > This is made up of bag, books, files, change of clothes (could be PE
> > kit...)... it soon mounts up. In many a school kids have nowhere to keep
> > their school items and they do end up carrying it all around with them,
> > as the desks are just a flat surface and there aren't enough lockers for
> > every kid to have one.
> >
>
> Our girls bags are similarly heavy for the same reason plus the need to
> bring text books between school and home for homework. They go by train
> and foot but it is a big lump to carry.

My son also has a similar load. He sometimes has to manage his sports
kit and his violin as well as his heavy rucksack.

--
Dave...