BBC Breakfast TV - Helmets

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 00:03:35 +0100, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>>The BBC is the quintessential pinky "sheeple's" news
>>outlet.

>Do you mind ? I'm the quintessential tomato (looks green,
>but turns red when allowed to ripen) and I neither bleat,
>nor own a TV.

BBC is also available via the wireless and the new-fangled
Interweb thingy.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 08:17:53 +0100, Michael MacClancy
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>The report seemed to be trying to be balanced but it needed
>someone with a better soundbite to balance the
>Swampmonster's views.

We already have an excellent soundbyte which I think should
be used in every interview and response to the Beeb: there
is no known case where cyclist safety has improved with
increasing helmet use. The authority for this is road safety
minister David Jamieson.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Alex Ferrier]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> Nathaniel Porter wrote:
> >
> >The stat claimed on the report was 3000 cyclists killed
> >or injured. I
don't
> >know how accurate this is.
>
> I think it's about right - just don't inquire too closely
> about how serious the injuries are (most are trivial) or
> how many ar head injuries (under half, IIRC) or how many
> of the head injury deaths and serious injuries could be
> prevented by helmets (most optimistic plausible estimate
> being about 10%).
>

Dunno, I'm not going to guess at the stats, but from
personal experience I believe that the majority of these
'injuries' will be trivial. I had a motorcycle accident
years ago where I was overtaking a car which decided to pull
out and overtake the car in front without looking or
indicating. I was so far forward that I could have reached
out and put his cigarette out for him as he started the
manoeuvre and when we finally made contact I ripped his
front bumper off. Anyway, I digress. The end result was, me
getting thrown over the handlebars and the bike ending up a
twisted mess in the ditch. Amazingly I was uninjured, having
rolled as I hit the ground. Later when being questioned by
the police, they kept returning again and again to the
question of any injuries I might have received. I assured
them several times that I was fine, but they kept asking if
I was cut anywhere. Eventually I looked down pulled up a
trouser leg and found a small graze where the skin had been
rubbed off and the bruised area underneath was just
'weeping' ever so slightly. The investigating copper looked
chuffed and ticked the relevant box. So down I went as an
accident statistic. I've never taken these accident
statistics seriously ever since.

--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk Windy's "little soldier"

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:25:32 +0100, "Alex Ferrier"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

> I'm not going to guess at the stats, but from personal
> experience I believe that the majority of these 'injuries'
> will be trivial.

Well, it's a funny thing really. DfT KSI stats are collected
I believe by the pleece officers investigating a crash; thus
the definition of "serious" is open to interpretation. A cut
head which bleeds profusely may be logged as serious, while
a closed head wound which masks a potentially life-
threatening injury might not. But I compared the DoH
hospital admissions data with DfT stats and I believe that
DfT KSI stats are probably fairly close. Fatality is the
most accurate measure, followed by KSI. All injury stats are
no better than a guess,which is why few people use them
except for indicative purposes (being a large enough number
for statisticians to play with).

However...

As usual BeHIT are being mischievous. They want you to
believe that every one of those deaths and injuries would
have been prevented by a Magic Hat. The truth is, of course,
that few cyclists die, even fewer of head injuries alone,
many of the serious injuries will be to other parts of the
body, and in any case the cause of the problem is motor
traffic not failure to wear a PFDB.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Graeme]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> As usual BeHIT are being mischievous. They want you to
> believe that every one of those deaths and injuries would
> have been prevented by a Magic Hat.

I've always thought they were used as Joe Public hears the
phrase as "*KILLED* <whisper> or seriously injured
</whisper>", or at least interprets it as such and BHIT are
well aware of this. So, many people will now think the huge
figure is for deaths.

Graeme

 

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> We already have an excellent soundbyte which I think
> should be used in every interview and response to the
> Beeb: there is no known case where cyclist safety has
> improved with increasing helmet use. The authority for
> this is road safety minister David Jamieson.
>

Yebbut nobody beleives government ministers these days

Tony

 

[Andy Dingley]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 10:12:37 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>BBC is also available via the wireless and the new-fangled
>Interweb thingy.

But it's the TV version that offers the worst of this
attitude. On Radio 4, You and Yours is an aberration. On TV,
it's the default.

--
Smert' spamionam

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:07:26 +0100, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>On Radio 4, You and Yours is an aberration. On TV, it's
>the default.

"Brassed Off Briatin - That's Life without the
intellectual rigour"
(c) Dead Ringers

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:01:23 +0100, "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>nobody beleives government ministers these days

How true. What amazes me is that, according to the evidence,
people having become ****** off with the Labour Party's
duplicity are switching back to the Monster Raving Tory
Party, who gave us the Scott Report, sleaze and - well - an
almost indistinguishably different sort of duplicity. I
suppose a week is a long time in politics, and after nearly
a decade people have forgotten the unedifying spectacle of a
government trying to send innocent people to jail rather
than admit ministers lied to parliament.

My choice of candidate(s) in every election is strongly
influenced by which party is most likely to bring in a
change in the current scandalous voting system.

Although even if the MRTP did pledge to introduce PR I might
still be challenged to support them with Michael "Creature
of the Night" Howard at the helm.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Nathaniel Porte]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:01:23 +0100, "Tony Raven" <junk@raven-
> family.com> wrote in message <2j2u3qFt576nU2@uni-
> berlin.de>:
>
> ...the unedifying spectacle of a government trying to send
> innocent people to jail rather than admit ministers lied
> to parliament.
>

I would suggest this is insignificant compared to sending
thousands of innocent people to their deaths rather than
admit ministers lied to parliament....

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:44:21 +0100, "Nathaniel Porter"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>> ...the unedifying spectacle of a government trying to
>> send innocent people to jail rather than admit ministers
>> lied to parliament.

>I would suggest this is insignificant compared to sending
>thousands of innocent people to their deaths rather than
>admit ministers lied to parliament....

The Falklands, you mean? Never looked into it that closely.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Dwb]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> parts of the body, and in any case the cause of the
> problem is motor traffic not failure to wear a PFDB.

I've injured myself twice on a bicycle, once where a helmet
did save me injury and the second where I ended up in a pile
of grass at a rather high speed.

In both cases, motor traffic was not a problem - I was
totally at fault.

Motor traffic contributes, but don't ever think people
aren't stupid enough to injure themselves all on their own.

 

[Tony Raven]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> The Falklands, you mean? Never looked into it that
> closely.
>

Obviously

Tony

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:12:04 +0100, "dwb" <[email protected]>
wrote in message <[email protected]>:

>Motor traffic contributes, but don't ever think people
>aren't stupid enough to injure themselves all on their own.

But, looking at the stats for children, 90% of the injuries
are due to road traffic, and 90% of child cycling is
offroad. All but one of the fatalities in 2003 were offroad
as well. And although road traffic accounts for only 10% of
all child injury admissions it makes up half of the
fatalities.

So, in as much as there is a single predominant problem,
motor traffic is it.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Patrick Herring]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:

| On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 08:17:53 +0100, Michael MacClancy
| <[email protected]> wrote in message
| <[email protected]>:
|
| >The report seemed to be trying to be balanced but it
| >needed someone with a better soundbite to balance the
| >Swampmonster's views.
|
| We already have an excellent soundbyte which I think
| should be used in every interview and response to the
| Beeb: there is no known case where cyclist safety has
| improved with increasing helmet use. The authority for
| this is road safety minister David Jamieson.

Yep, a good'un, except it doesn't counter "it still might
help for me", that would take some risk compensation
research...

Another good line is "The most worrying statistic is from
Alberta, Canada where...". Any news on the progress of facts
from there?

--
Patrick Herring, Sheffield, UK http://www.anweald.co.uk

 

[Michael Macclan]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:31:04 GMT, Patrick Herring wrote:

> "Just zis Guy, you know?"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>| On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 08:17:53 +0100, Michael MacClancy
>| <[email protected]> wrote in message
>| <[email protected]>:
>|
>|>The report seemed to be trying to be balanced but it
>|>needed someone with a better soundbite to balance the
>|>Swampmonster's views.
>|
>| We already have an excellent soundbyte which I think
>| should be used in every interview and response to the
>| Beeb: there is no known case where cyclist safety has
>| improved with increasing helmet use. The authority for
>| this is road safety minister David Jamieson.
>
> Yep, a good'un, except it doesn't counter "it still might
> help for me", that would take some risk compensation
> research...
>
> Another good line is "The most worrying statistic is from
> Alberta, Canada where...". Any news on the progress of
> facts from there?

"Anyone who thinks that a bit of moulded polystyrene can
protect them from serious head injury ... needs to have
their head examined."
--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "His mother should have
thrown him away and kept the stork." - Mae West
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

 

[Nathaniel Porte]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:44:21 +0100, "Nathaniel Porter"
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> <[email protected]>:
>
> >> ...the unedifying spectacle of a government trying to
> >> send innocent people to jail rather than admit
> >> ministers lied to parliament.
>
> >I would suggest this is insignificant compared to sending
> >thousands of innocent people to their deaths rather than
> >admit ministers lied to parliament....
>
> The Falklands, you mean? Never looked into it that
> closely.
>

What was the lie to parliament w.r.t. the Falklands?

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 16:11:09 +0100, "Nathaniel Porter"
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>> >> ...the unedifying spectacle of a government trying to
>> >> send innocent people to jail rather than admit
>> >> ministers lied to parliament.

>> >I would suggest this is insignificant compared to
>> >sending thousands of innocent people to their deaths
>> >rather than admit ministers lied to parliament....

>> The Falklands, you mean? Never looked into it that
>> closely.

>What was the lie to parliament w.r.t. the Falklands?

Like I said, I didn't study it in that much detail. I can
only remember some creative interpretation of facts re
the General Belgrano, and being rather cagey about the
negotiations which had been underway on sovereignty of
the islands.

Since both Blue Labour and the MRTP were in favour of the
illegal invasion of Iraq, that was the only war I could
think of which would be relevant.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Colin McKenzie]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> But, looking at the stats for children, 90% of the
> injuries are due to road traffic, and 90% of child cycling
> is offroad. All but one of the fatalities in 2003 were
> offroad as well.

Misprint?

> And although road traffic accounts for only 10% of all
> child injury admissions it makes up half of the
> fatalities.
>
> So, in as much as there is a single predominant problem,
> motor traffic is it.
>
Colin McKenzie

--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that it
leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:20:03 +0100, Colin McKenzie
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>> But, looking at the stats for children, 90% of the
>> injuries are due to road traffic, and 90% of child
>> cycling is offroad. All but one of the fatalities in 2003
>> were offroad as well.

>Misprint?

Eh? Oh, I see. Yes, all but one were road transport. Ta.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University