BBC Weather forecast

The message <[email hidden]>
from Phil Cook <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Talking of dumbing down what could be dumber than using 12pm for 12 noon.

Quoted message said:

The dumb can never remember which is which. 12pm and 12am are best
written as noon and midnight.

12pm is also 12 midnight but 24 hours after 12am.

Also dumb is the sequence 11am, 12pm, 1pm ... 11pm 12 am, 1am ...

I always thought meteorologists would have at least some grounding in
simple maths even if their Latin was nonexistent but ...

Seen frequently on local forecasts recently a little window saying tide
times are BST. I seem to have noticed this more often than the one
saying tide times are GMT which is presumably the correct message.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 62 summits
New - 28 (Marilyns 14, Nuttalls 5, Outlying Fells 10)
Repeats - 34 (Marilyns 16, Nuttalls 24, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)

Ysgrifennodd "Richard Webb" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 12 Dec 2005 22:53:24 GMT, Nobody Here <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Some months ago when the BBC started its new forecasting graphics there
was a lot of debate on here complaining how bad it was, a sentiment that I
largely agreed with at the time. However, I have to say that I've
come to appreciate the new format now, and I prefer it to the old.
It seems to give a much higher resolution view of the weather - or
at least the forecast - than the old.

Has anyone else come round to the new stuff?

No.

Its still useless... All that flying around places that are irrelevant
to most viewers that have to concentrate hard to get their 3 seconds
worth.

And the charts are vital!

Rarely watch it these days - it usually comes after the "News for the
hard of thinking" Used to rely on it from pub tellys on long trips.

Usable forecasts on television are sadly missed.

Richard Webb

Same here, i don't think i've watched a forecast on telly since.

Saying that, i've not really watched telly either.
Am i getting older, or is telly just really, really c**p these days?

But there is definately a general dumbing down in the Weather and news...
"And tomorrow morning, wet stuff falling from the sky..."

Anyway, I don't particularly need the BBC forecast anymore as the MWIS
forecast is superb. It gives all the information you need, plus a nice
little pressure map for a one glance look at general conditions. Not only
that, it tends to be fairly accurate for the 3 days it covers. For general
day to day weather, i just tend to look out of the window.

T Dave R

--

Walking in Snowdonia
www.walkeryri.org.uk

Dafydd Ap Arwyn said:

Am i getting older, or is telly just really, really c**p these days?

Yep. Apparently young people are getting thicker. Brains are unfashionable
these days. I suspect that western civilisation will start to devolve soon.

Paul

Roger said:

Also dumb is the sequence 11am, 12pm, 1pm ... 11pm 12 am, 1am ...

Clearly designed to confuse. Shouldn't the day start at 0am? Or simply end
at 12pm.

Speaking of which, what compass bearing do you use when you walk north? 0
degrees or 360 degrees?

Quoted message said:

Seen frequently on local forecasts recently a little window saying
tide times are BST. I seem to have noticed this more often than the
one saying tide times are GMT which is presumably the correct message.

Used to be. Sadly I'm seeing actual tide tables printed in BST. Gets
confusing when I compensate for something that's already been compensated
for.

Best to leave GPS and camera time on GMT too, except that my new GPS has
auto-summer time.

Paul

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:06:53 -0000, "Paul Saunders"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Nobody Here wrote:
|
| >>> It seems to give a much higher resolution view of the weather
| >>
| >> That makes me suspicous, how can they forecast the gaps in the cloud
| >> with that amount of accuracy?
| >
| > Yes, possibly, but to my mind it's not so much the absolute cloud/no
| > cloud thing but some indication of the brokenness of the cloudr. I
| > mean that if you have a cloud cover shown with lots of little holes
| > it's likely to be quite variable diring the day, but a fully unbroken
| > cloud cover is more likely
| > to be full overcst or there abouts.
|
| Fair enough, but it still seems to imply that one bit will be sunny while a
| nearby bit will be cloudy. The previous sun/cloud symbol was far simpler,
| but did effectively the same job. At least that didn't imply great
| accuracy.

That is another bit they have *improved*. The graphic symbols for
rain and cloud are *now* much more uneven, showing that showers or
sunny patches move across the country, as they scan through the day.

| >> It's not that bad, but now most of the forecast is spent looking at
| >> somewhere else. Can't beat a good old pressure chart to see what's
| >> really going on, but we don't see those very often anymore.
| >
| > But wasn't it anyway (spent looking somewhere else)?
|
| No, they showed the whole country at the same time, so you could concentrate
| on your little bit while the forecaster chatted away.

Unless you watch the local news bulletins at 13:45 or 18:55 when you
get local forecast. on Look North paultheweatherman is a local
celebrity ;-)
|
| > I agree about
| > isobars and fronts as mentioned elsewhere, but most of the population
| > isn't interested
|
| So those who are have to do without? Pathetic.
|
| > and those that do have far better ways of checking
| > weather these days than a whole-country forecast
| > anyway, which is never going to
| > be particularly detailed in your region of interest.
|
| Better ways if they are accessible to you, but if you're just catching a
| quick glimpse of the forecast in a pub while you're away for a few days, you
| may not have anything better.

I have digital TV in my Caravan. If you chose not to watch what is
available that is your problem not the BBCs.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work :-)

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 01:30:45 +0000, Chris Street
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Not until they stick back the wind arrows, isobars and pressure fronts.

They **have** added these. Saw them yesterday.

That was "they" in the past tense, as in I didn't come round to them till
they stuck back in the yadda yadda.....

Ysgrifennodd "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dafydd Ap Arwyn said:

Am i getting older, or is telly just really, really c**p these days?

Yep. Apparently young people are getting thicker. Brains are
unfashionable these days. I suspect that western civilisation will start
to devolve soon.

Paul

I'd been telling my GCSE kids to watch it, as the isobars and fronts are in
their exam and i think watching the forecast was a good way to understand
the relation between pressure, fronts and weather observed. Unfortunately,
week later, the beeb withdraw the forecast! Thanks !

Getting thicker? I think a lot of it is down to a laziness, that results are
wanted immediately without having to work for it. I could read and
understand when i was at secondary school, and most of my peers too. I find
that the equivelent age group i now teach find it very difficult to read and
follow instructions (across all abilities). They prefer to be told what to
do, as it's quicker (and with the hope i'll divulge more of the answer in
the process). It's worrying that they don't want to put the effort in and
definately in part, because this isn't cool and fashionable. Instant success
and fame a la Pop-Idle is what's sought ( a poll put fame as the ambition of
most 12 year olds, or something similar).

I've definately got an uphill struggle to teach em to think!

And civilisation devolving? I thought it already was in some parts ;-)
T Dave R

--

Walk Snowdonia
www.walkeryri.org.uk

In message <[email hidden]>

Chris Street said:

Nobody Here said:

Some months ago when the BBC started its new forecasting graphics there
was a lot of debate on here complaining how bad it was, a sentiment that I
largely agreed with at the time. However, I have to say that I've
come to appreciate the new format now, and I prefer it to the old.
It seems to give a much higher resolution view of the weather - or
at least the forecast - than the old.

Has anyone else come round to the new stuff?

Not until they stick back the wind arrows, isobars and pressure fronts. It
was an excercise in dumbing down content for no good reason.

They said they'll put wind on when they (note they) think it's
important. Which probably means if it blows in London. If it's
anything like the same wind symbols they use on the website they are
hideous.

Showing what they think is going on in terms of sun and rain over the
whole country is all very well, except it's unmemorable compared with
seeing a deep low heading your way across the Atlantic.

--
Simon Challands

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Speaking of which, what compass bearing do you use when you walk north? 0
degrees or 360 degrees?

My compass is graduated in mils. :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Seen frequently on local forecasts recently a little window saying
tide times are BST. I seem to have noticed this more often than the
one saying tide times are GMT which is presumably the correct message.

Quoted message said:

Used to be. Sadly I'm seeing actual tide tables printed in BST. Gets
confusing when I compensate for something that's already been compensated
for.

I suspect in this particular case what we have been seeing is the summer
message triggered in error and not noticed by the forecaster.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 62 summits
New - 28 (Marilyns 14, Nuttalls 5, Outlying Fells 10)
Repeats - 34 (Marilyns 16, Nuttalls 24, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)

In message <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I want
a weather forecast that I can look at in a pub and get all the
infrormation I need in the one glance I'll be allowed before they turn
it over for the foottie.

I used to want a weather forecast that actually forecast the weather -
when I realised that this was not going to happen I gave up watching
well before the BBC made the changes. As for forecasts on the radio -
have you noticed that however hard you attempt to listen, your mind
wanders elsewhere before they get to misleading you about what allegedly
is going to happen in the region, you are planning to go for a walk in?
--
Martin Richardson
271/284 Munros - 4.5% to go 34/34 'Furths'- 0% to go
53/89 Donalds - 40% to go 493/1554 Marilyns - 67% to go
376/525 Hewitts - 28% to go (E=178/178; W=137/137; I=61/211)

In message <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Roger said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from Chris Street <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Not until they stick back the wind arrows, isobars and pressure fronts. It
was an excercise in dumbing down content for no good reason.

Hear! Hear!

Talking of dumbing down what could be dumber than using 12pm for 12 noon.

The dumb can never remember which is which. 12pm and 12am are best
written as noon and midnight.

Is noon when it is dark - or is it the other one?

--
Martin Richardson
271/284 Munros - 4.5% to go 34/34 'Furths'- 0% to go
53/89 Donalds - 40% to go 493/1554 Marilyns - 67% to go
376/525 Hewitts - 28% to go (E=178/178; W=137/137; I=61/211)

Radio Scotland have a hill forecast on a Saturday evening and again on
a Sunday morning. They are okay when away from home and have no access
to a computer. However I have listened to both the Saturday and
Sunday forecasts and I am in no doubt that on Sunday morning the
newsreader is reading the same report that he / she read on Saturday
night. Same mistakes are made and on Sunday 'tomorrow' is used instead
of today.

Another gripe is that they don't do a hill forecast on a Sunday
evening. Are we not allowed to know what the hill forecast is for
Monday.

Slainte.

Lindsay
www.caledoniahilltreks.com

In message <[email hidden]>, Dafydd Ap Arwyn
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Ysgrifennodd "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dafydd Ap Arwyn said:

Am i getting older, or is telly just really, really c**p these days?

Yep. Apparently young people are getting thicker. Brains are
unfashionable these days. I suspect that western civilisation will start
to devolve soon.

Paul

I'd been telling my GCSE kids to watch it, as the isobars and fronts are in
their exam and i think watching the forecast was a good way to understand
the relation between pressure, fronts and weather observed. Unfortunately,
week later, the beeb withdraw the forecast! Thanks !

Getting thicker? I think a lot of it is down to a laziness, that results are
wanted immediately without having to work for it. I could read and
understand when i was at secondary school, and most of my peers too. I find
that the equivelent age group i now teach find it very difficult to read and
follow instructions (across all abilities). They prefer to be told what to
do, as it's quicker (and with the hope i'll divulge more of the answer in
the process). It's worrying that they don't want to put the effort in and
definately in part, because this isn't cool and fashionable. Instant success
and fame a la Pop-Idle is what's sought ( a poll put fame as the ambition of
most 12 year olds, or something similar).

I've definately got an uphill struggle to teach em to think!

And civilisation devolving? I thought it already was in some parts ;-)
T Dave R

Conspiracy theorists might claim that it is part of a plot by the
anonymous holders of power to create a passive, dumb, dependent
population who can be all the more easily deceived and manipulated.
; )
But it is really too sad to smile about. 🙁
--
Paul reply-to is valid

Dave Fawthrop said:

Quoted message said:

The previous sun/cloud symbol
was far simpler, but did effectively the same job.

That is another bit they have *improved*. The graphic symbols for
rain and cloud are *now* much more uneven, showing that showers or
sunny patches move across the country, as they scan through the day.

Fair enough, but on a static image it can be misleading.

Quoted message said:

I have digital TV in my Caravan. If you chose not to watch what is
available that is your problem not the BBCs.

How many walkers go away for the weeked equipped with a caravan and digital
TV?

Paul

Richard Webb said:

They can just put up with
it for a while and listen to the nice man.

I usually listen to the 10pm forecast on Radio 4, but rambling as it
is, I find myself drifting off by the time Wales gets a mention. Sometimes
I wake up only when Big Ben announces the end of the misery.

I would really appreciate a weather forecast along the lines of the
shipping forecast: if you hear Dogger, you know Fisher will be next...
If only they'd do the different areas in the same sequence every day!

I'll get me anorak...
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales

Richard Webb said:

The broadcast media cannot tolerate science in any form. The old
forecasts were a last bastion. No wonder it had to go.

To be fair, there's always Melvyn Bragg and his ventures into outer
space in between the historical bits (which are quite interesting too)!
--
Rudi Winter, Aberystwyth, Wales

Martin Richardson said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I want
a weather forecast that I can look at in a pub and get all the
infrormation I need in the one glance I'll be allowed before they turn
it over for the foottie.

I used to want a weather forecast that actually forecast the weather -
when I realised that this was not going to happen I gave up watching
well before the BBC made the changes. As for forecasts on the radio -
have you noticed that however hard you attempt to listen, your mind
wanders elsewhere before they get to misleading you about what allegedly
is going to happen in the region, you are planning to go for a walk in?

That and the fact that if you try and listen to the BBC Scotland
Outdoor Conditions Forecast on FM whilst driving you will drop out of
reception area just as you get to the bit you want. If you try and
retune to AM all you get is burbles because you have just gone under a
power line :-(
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Martin Richardson said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Phil Cook
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The dumb can never remember which is which. 12pm and 12am are best
written as noon and midnight.

Is noon when it is dark - or is it the other one?

It depends how close you were to Buncefield, or ,knowing you, whether
the car battery powering the striplight was flat. :-)

--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Paul said:

Conspiracy theorists might claim that it is part of a plot by the
anonymous holders of power to create a passive, dumb, dependent
population who can be all the more easily deceived and manipulated.
; )

Speaking of deception and manipulation, anyone watched Space Cadets on C4?

Paul

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul said:

Conspiracy theorists might claim that it is part of a plot by the
anonymous holders of power to create a passive, dumb, dependent
population who can be all the more easily deceived and manipulated.
; )

Speaking of deception and manipulation, anyone watched Space Cadets on C4?

Yes. I quite like it, clever (and lucky) how they've managed to pull it off
so far, although having 3 pretty uneducated and gullible cadets has made
life easier for them!