BBQ ideas, anyone?

Blair P. Houghton said:

jmcquown said:

Quoted message said:

BBQ means meat slathered with sauce.

Nonsense. BBQ is merely one of those acronyms like LOL rather than
typing out Laughing Out Loud.

Tell you what. You go to every place in your town that has "BBQ"
anywhere on its advertisements, signs, or menus. Tell us how many
don't put sauce on meat to make it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Barbecue, from barbacoa, means the same thing, or the process of
roasting food for a long time at low heat outdoors.

Means the same thing? But then wouldn't it also mean slathered with
sauce? So you contradict yourself.

I don't contradict myself, I expand the inclusiveness of the
definition.

Quoted message said:

And by the way, I have BBQ'd many a slab of ribs without sauce but
rather simply rubbed with some herbs and spices

Herbs + spices + drippings = what?

If you don't say "sauce", you're being disingenuous.

--Blair

I never use sauce. I don't like sauce. I spread on a dry rub (on ribs)
with marjoram, salt, pepper and maybe sometimes (depends on the meat)
crushed rosemary. No fat, sweetie. It's dripping the fat down into the
coals. Nothing tomato or mustard touches my beef or pork ribs because I
really don't like sauce; I really don't. If someone else wants sauce it's
available on the table.

Jill

jmcquown said:

I never use sauce. I don't like sauce. I spread on a dry rub (on ribs)
with marjoram, salt, pepper and maybe sometimes (depends on the meat)
crushed rosemary. No fat, sweetie. It's dripping the fat down into the
coals. Nothing tomato or mustard touches my beef or pork ribs because I
really don't like sauce; I really don't. If someone else wants sauce it's
available on the table.

You might want to check with the FDA on that "no fat" thing. The fat
proportion of most cooked meats is HIGHER than uncooked meats. That
stuff dripping on the coals is mostly water. And fat+seasoning=sauce.

--Blair

jmcquown said:

I never use sauce. I don't like sauce. I spread on a dry rub (on
ribs) with marjoram, salt, pepper and maybe sometimes (depends on the
meat) crushed rosemary. No fat, sweetie. It's dripping the fat down
into the coals. Nothing tomato or mustard touches my beef or pork
ribs because I really don't like sauce; I really don't. If someone
else wants sauce it's available on the table.

We don't sauce our meat at the restaurant. We use dry rubs, and the meat
speaks for itself. Of course, each table has bottles of the two sauces that
I make, so the customer can finish the meat anyway they like. IMNSHO, if a
restaurant serves their "barbecue" slathered in sauce, they may have a lot
of sin that needs covering up. Barbecue is about the MEAT, it is not about
sauce.

If what someone wants is gobs of sauce, it is much cheaper to eat the sauce
by the spoonful, than to waste money on meat you'd never taste.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg said:

We don't sauce our meat at the restaurant. We use dry rubs, and the meat
speaks for itself.

If you rubbed it, it's speaking through the rub. A rub makes its own
sauce; it may end up dried-on, or if the rub has sugar it may end up
like a candy coating, but it's a sauce. Some places use similar enough
ingredients in the rub and the house sauce that you can't really tell
if they rubbed it or sauced it afterward.

Quoted message said:

Of course, each table has bottles of the two sauces that
I make, so the customer can finish the meat anyway they like. IMNSHO, if a
restaurant serves their "barbecue" slathered in sauce, they may have a lot
of sin that needs covering up. Barbecue is about the MEAT, it is not about
sauce.

Well, yeah, but, when we're talking what IS vs. what SHOULD BE, 90% of
all barbecue/BBQ/whatever is "something someone put smoky-sugary
flavoring on".

Quoted message said:

If what someone wants is gobs of sauce, it is much cheaper to eat the sauce
by the spoonful, than to waste money on meat you'd never taste.

I put sauce on the plate, then dip just the edge into it. One dip is
usually enough for a whole bone.

BTW, I'm not going to turn you in, but with your name and logo you
might want to keep your eye out for a nastygram from these folks:

http://www.famousdaves.com/

They have stores in Puyallup and Tacoma, and are aggressively expanding
across the planet, and might not take kindly to the dilution of their
trademarks.

--Blair

Stacia said:

We just bought a replacement barbecue grill and plan on trying it out
this weekend, if it doesn't rain. There's only two of us and it seems
such a waste to get the coals ready for just two steaks or a couple of
burgers.
I thought we might make some chicken and burgers to freeze and have
later, but I don't know what tastes good when reheated. What do you
guys make? Do you fridge it or freeze it, and how do you reheat?
Thanks.

Stacia

Stacia,

I often grill an entire grill full of veggies, then the meat, so the
whole meal gets done on the BBQ. If nothing else, a row of red onions
on the side of the grill while you're doing the meat is a fantastic
addition to the BBQ flavor. Some good veggies are: Asparagus, bell
peppers, corn, summer or winter squash, tomatoes, almost any veggie.
If you do beef, tomatoes, mushroom, onions, and bell pepper, you can
eat it like beef kabob without the skewer. If you cook it separately,
you don't overcook the veggies while trying to get the meat finished.

Different veggies require different techniques:

Corn can be done different ways. Once in a while, I like removing the
husk entirely and putting the corn right on the grill. This makes for
a dark, chewy, smoky, caramelized ear of corn. Or you can remove all
but the inner most corn husk and put it on the grill. The moisture in
the husk will steam the corn. Some people strip back the husk and add
seasonings, then push the husk back over the ear.

I slice my red onions into six pieces, into halves, then each half into
three pieces. Be sure to include the root part in each slice and that
will hold it together better when you turn it.

I'll do asparagus with olive oil, black pepper, and maybe some garlic
or other seasonings, but the pepper should do it.

The miniature bell peppers that come in the tub are great. Grill on
one side only, so it's kind of black, but the other side is just
heated.

You get the idea, almost all veggies work. You can always Google for
more ideas. And if all else fails, you can always just do the veggies
plain. Good meat from the grill, grilled veggies, and a baked potato
or yam is an easy, medium fast, and tasty dinner.

Hope this helps,

Ken

Blair P. Houghton said:

jmcquown said:

I never use sauce. I don't like sauce. I spread on a dry rub (on
ribs) with marjoram, salt, pepper and maybe sometimes (depends on
the meat) crushed rosemary. No fat, sweetie. It's dripping the fat
down into the coals. Nothing tomato or mustard touches my beef or
pork ribs because I really don't like sauce; I really don't. If
someone else wants sauce it's available on the table.

You might want to check with the FDA on that "no fat" thing. The fat
proportion of most cooked meats is HIGHER than uncooked meats. That
stuff dripping on the coals is mostly water. And fat+seasoning=sauce.

--Blair

Let me ask you a question. Where did you get your idea that fat doesn't
cook down? In fact, where do you get your meat that what drips from the
grill grate is mostly water? I try not to buy water-injected meat. I read
labels. Oh, and sauce is wet. Dry rubs aren't wet. Doesn't matter if the
meat gets moist (which is surely a desireable condition, rather than dry,
tough meat); the fact that the meat is moist does not make a sauce out of
dry rub.

You're obviously a novice griller. Or maybe you just really like stuff
slathered with a wet sauce, I dunno. Have you ever boiled ribs? 😉

Jill

Dave Bugg said:

jmcquown said:

I never use sauce. I don't like sauce. I spread on a dry rub (on
ribs) with marjoram, salt, pepper and maybe sometimes (depends on the
meat) crushed rosemary. No fat, sweetie. It's dripping the fat down
into the coals. Nothing tomato or mustard touches my beef or pork
ribs because I really don't like sauce; I really don't. If someone
else wants sauce it's available on the table.

We don't sauce our meat at the restaurant. We use dry rubs, and the
meat speaks for itself. Of course, each table has bottles of the two
sauces that I make, so the customer can finish the meat anyway they
like. IMNSHO, if a restaurant serves their "barbecue" slathered in
sauce, they may have a lot of sin that needs covering up. Barbecue
is about the MEAT, it is not about sauce.

If what someone wants is gobs of sauce, it is much cheaper to eat the
sauce by the spoonful, than to waste money on meat you'd never taste.

Hear hear! Dave! It's definitely about the meat! This guy apparently
thinks if you put a dry rub on meat it turns itself into sauce. What a
bunch of hooey, eh?

Jill

Ken said:

Stacia said:

We just bought a replacement barbecue grill and plan on trying it out
this weekend, if it doesn't rain. There's only two of us and it
seems such a waste to get the coals ready for just two steaks or a
couple of burgers.
I thought we might make some chicken and burgers to freeze and have
later, but I don't know what tastes good when reheated. What do you
guys make? Do you fridge it or freeze it, and how do you reheat?
Thanks.

Stacia

Stacia,

I often grill an entire grill full of veggies, then the meat, so the
whole meal gets done on the BBQ. If nothing else, a row of red onions
on the side of the grill while you're doing the meat is a fantastic
addition to the BBQ flavor.

(snip excellent suggestions)

I like to indirectly grill cabbage wedges (one cut into quarters). Simply
season it with a little salt & pepper. Nothing fancy. It carmelizes
naturally and I grill it about 20 minutes, then throw on a flank steak or
some chicken pieces. It tastes so good!

Jill

jmcquown said:

Let me ask you a question. Where did you get your idea that fat doesn't
cook down?

I told you to check with the USDA. Their data seem rather consistently
to think that the percentage fat content of cooked meat is higher than
uncooked meat.

Quoted message said:

In fact, where do you get your meat that what drips from the
grill grate is mostly water?

Quoted message said:

From the fact that it's dripping and the meat is losing something at a

higher rate than it's losing fat.

Quoted message said:

I try not to buy water-injected meat.

It's about 70% water by dint of being meat. Dry-aged meat may be less
than 50%, but you won't find that in the store, that's all wet-aged
(cry-o-vac aged, really) to retain moisture and color and make people
like you go "ooh!" and buy it for twice what it's worth at all grades.
Veggies are closer to 90% water.

Quoted message said:

I read labels.

Labels don't tell you the pre- and post-cooking fat content of meat.

Quoted message said:

Oh, and sauce is wet.

So is meat.

Quoted message said:

Dry rubs aren't wet.

How did you get it to stick, then? Krazy Glue?

Some dry rubs include sugar, which liquefies during cooking. The
result is very much like a coating of bbq sauce.

Quoted message said:

Doesn't matter if the
meat gets moist (which is surely a desireable condition, rather than dry,
tough meat); the fact that the meat is moist does not make a sauce out of
dry rub.

If you put the same seasonings in a pan of drippings after removing the
meat and heated it, would that make it a sauce? Then why is it any
different when you use the meat as the pan?

Quoted message said:

You're obviously a novice griller.

I've grilled more than you've eaten.

Quoted message said:

Or maybe you just really like stuff
slathered with a wet sauce, I dunno. Have you ever boiled ribs? 😉

Only those of presumptive Usenet posters who should've known better.

--Blair

jmcquown said:

Hear hear! Dave! It's definitely about the meat! This guy apparently
thinks if you put a dry rub on meat it turns itself into sauce. What a
bunch of hooey, eh?

1. Licking Dave's ass won't make your ribs taste better.

2. I never said it wasn't about the meat. I just posted a descriptive
definition of "BBQ". You decided to impute all this psychological
deficiency to me, and throw in a load of projection of your own.

3. Fat+seasoning=sauce. When you learn how to cook, give us a buzz.
Mm-kay?

--Blair

Ken said:

Stacia said:

We just bought a replacement barbecue grill and plan on trying it out
this weekend, if it doesn't rain. There's only two of us and it seems
such a waste to get the coals ready for just two steaks or a couple of
burgers.
I thought we might make some chicken and burgers to freeze and have
later, but I don't know what tastes good when reheated. What do you
guys make? Do you fridge it or freeze it, and how do you reheat?
Thanks.

Stacia

Stacia,

I often grill an entire grill full of veggies, then the meat, so the
whole meal gets done on the BBQ. If nothing else, a row of red onions

Stacia,

One thing I to say say is when doing little pieces of veggies, little
compared to a piece of meat, a long pair of tongs is invaluable. And I
either use no gloves, or if gloves are needed, I use leather welding
gloves. They go way up the arm and offer more dexterity than kitchen
mitts.

Hope this helps some more,

Ken

jmcquown said:

Hear hear! Dave! It's definitely about the meat! This guy apparently
thinks if you put a dry rub on meat it turns itself into sauce. What
a bunch of hooey, eh?

Maybe he's thinking of aus jus? At any rate, with an off-set pit, or a
vertical pit with a heat deflector, there's not going to be any contact with
fat and charcoal.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

What a great reciepe thankyou

Ken some great tips i am going to try it. thankyou

Ken some great tips i am going to try it. thankyou

Ken some great tips i am going to try it. thankyou

Blair P. Houghton said:

I told you to check with the USDA. Their data seem rather consistently
to think that the percentage fat content of cooked meat is higher than
uncooked meat.

Where do see see such data? I'd like to see this for myself.

-sw

Steve Wertz said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

I told you to check with the USDA. Their data seem rather consistently
to think that the percentage fat content of cooked meat is higher than
uncooked meat.

Where do see see such data? I'd like to see this for myself.

The USDA's nutritional database. I have the SR-17 database; I think
they're up to SR-18.

F'rinstance:

Beef, short loin, top loin, seperable lean only, trimmed to 1/8" fat,
choice, raw: 22.78 grams protein, 70.3 grams water and 6.43 grams
total lipid (fat) per 100 grams edible portion.

Same cut, cooked, broiled: 29.16 grams protein, 61.99 grams water and
8.45 grams total lipid (fat) per 100 grams edible portion.

Its percentage fat content goes up from 6.43% to 8.45%.

For each gram of protein, the water content went from 3.09 to 2.13
grams, and the fat content went from 0.282 to 0.289 grams. The meat
lost 32% of its water, 22% of its weight, and (probably due to
statistical sampling error) actually seems to have gained 1% more fat.
At any rate, the only thing dripping from this steak into your
briquettes is water and flavor.

I did find an exception: Ground beef, if it starts out fatty, will
lose percentage fat, but will lose even more water and weight in the
process:

Beef, ground, 80% lean meat / 20% fat, raw: 17.17 g protein, 61.94 g
water, 20.00 g fat.
Cooked, broiled: 25.75 g protein, 56.08 g water, 17.82 g fat.

Per gram of protein: water content goes down 40% from 3.61 to 2.18
grams, fat content goes down 40% from 1.16 to 0.692 grams. Total
weight drops by 34%.

For each gram of fat that is lost, 3.06 grams of water is lost.

Ground beef that is 15% fat will, however, end up 15.48% fat, and
leaner grades look more and more like steak in this regard (5% ends up
as 7.28% when cooked, so maybe it's false advertising...).

--Blair

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve Wertz said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

I told you to check with the USDA. Their data seem rather consistently
to think that the percentage fat content of cooked meat is higher than
uncooked meat.

Where do see see such data? I'd like to see this for myself.

The USDA's nutritional database. I have the SR-17 database; I think
they're up to SR-18.

F'rinstance:

Beef, short loin, top loin, seperable lean only, trimmed to 1/8" fat,
choice, raw: 22.78 grams protein, 70.3 grams water and 6.43 grams
total lipid (fat) per 100 grams edible portion.

Same cut, cooked, broiled: 29.16 grams protein, 61.99 grams water and
8.45 grams total lipid (fat) per 100 grams edible portion.

Its percentage fat content goes up from 6.43% to 8.45%.

For each gram of protein, the water content went from 3.09 to 2.13
grams, and the fat content went from 0.282 to 0.289 grams. The meat
lost 32% of its water, 22% of its weight, and (probably due to
statistical sampling error) actually seems to have gained 1% more fat.
At any rate, the only thing dripping from this steak into your
briquettes is water and flavor.

I did find an exception: Ground beef, if it starts out fatty, will
lose percentage fat, but will lose even more water and weight in the
process:

Beef, ground, 80% lean meat / 20% fat, raw: 17.17 g protein, 61.94 g
water, 20.00 g fat.
Cooked, broiled: 25.75 g protein, 56.08 g water, 17.82 g fat.

Per gram of protein: water content goes down 40% from 3.61 to 2.18
grams, fat content goes down 40% from 1.16 to 0.692 grams. Total
weight drops by 34%.

For each gram of fat that is lost, 3.06 grams of water is lost.

Ground beef that is 15% fat will, however, end up 15.48% fat, and
leaner grades look more and more like steak in this regard (5% ends up
as 7.28% when cooked, so maybe it's false advertising...).

--Blair

While I'll gladly believe that the PERCENTAGE of fat goes up during
preparation, I think the total amount should still decrease. So less fat
winds up in your body if you eat the meat prepared rather than raw.

That's assuming the missing fat wasn't eaten after all (gravy) , or
compensated for by adding fat to the dish, of course.

Blair P. Houghton said:

Steve Wertz said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

I told you to check with the USDA. Their data seem rather consistently
to think that the percentage fat content of cooked meat is higher than
uncooked meat.

Where do see see such data? I'd like to see this for myself.

The USDA's nutritional database. I have the SR-17 database; I think
they're up to SR-18.

F'rinstance:

Beef, short loin, top loin, seperable lean only, trimmed to 1/8" fat,
choice, raw: 22.78 grams protein, 70.3 grams water and 6.43 grams
total lipid (fat) per 100 grams edible portion.

Same cut, cooked, broiled: 29.16 grams protein, 61.99 grams water and
8.45 grams total lipid (fat) per 100 grams edible portion.

Its percentage fat content goes up from 6.43% to 8.45%.

Percentage wise, sure - it went up since the meat lost some
moisture. You were saying the amount of fat actually went up
though - which is physically impossible.

Quoted message said:

For each gram of protein, the water content went from 3.09 to 2.13
grams, and the fat content went from 0.282 to 0.289 grams. The meat
lost 32% of its water, 22% of its weight, and (probably due to
statistical sampling error) actually seems to have gained 1% more fat.
At any rate, the only thing dripping from this steak into your
briquettes is water and flavor.

Those of us with offset smokers know that that's not water we're
draining and cleaning out of our Q's. Much of the fat renders
out while cooking. There's also a lot of moisture released,
together known as the shrinkage factor which can be as high as
50% for some cuts.

While I wasn't in on your earlier argument (and probably glad I
wasn't), fat does not increase as it cooks. Otherwise you'd have
hit on a scientific breakthrough that would be the most amazing
discovery since gravity.

-sw